<p>Do you feel the need to resort to personal attacks? My mother makes $12,00 a year and I do not have state residency because I've been abroad due to military PCS; subsequently, I have no financial matches. Unlike some people I cannot rely on daddy's checkbook. I have, however, applied to a multitude of colleges: private and public.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You misconstrued my point. I was arguing that everyone deserves a good education, especially if they have worked hard for it, despite their socioeconomic status. Have we really become a society that will only allow the affluent to attend college
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</p>
<p>getting a good education can happen at many places if a student has the desire to get that education. Keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of student in this country attend their state and local universitities and many of them graduate having had a good education (it is not only limited to ivie/elite schools)</p>
<p>Some people come about that education in different ways (I worked a full time job and put my self through college as both of my parents were deceased. I recieved my undergrad at CUNY, completed grad programs at and IVY and NYU (job had great tuition benefits).
Currently I am still working full time going to grad school full time(in a program that is not supported by my company's tuition aid plan) doing a full time internship and paying for my own D to attend undergrad). If someone really wants to get something done, it can be done.</p>
<p>qwilde,</p>
<p>not here to attack you but I think you should remain cognizant of the fact that very few schools are need blind and still fewer schools meet 100% of demonstrated need (a school can give you a package that is full of loans- whether or not your family will be able to secure them and will have still done their part on meeting your need). The ones that meet 100% of demonstrated need with a lot of grant aid are amongst the most competitive to gain admission.</p>
<p>The overwhelming number of schools in this country do not meet 100% of your need (gap). My suggestion would bet check the college board for your list of schools and look up not only what percent of need the school meets but also how the financial aid is packaged (%scholarship/grant aid to % self help meaning workstudy and loans).</p>
<p>It is not a matter of your willingness to take out "substantial loans" but a matter of you being able to get those loans. as an incoming freshmen the maximum amount you will be able to borrow in stafford loans is 3500. IF a school gives you a perkins loan (for students with exceptional need) the maximum that you can borrow through perkins is 4000. Any other loans you need will will require a co-signer (a fool with a pen).</p>
<p>Whatever additional loans you will need will have to come through your
parent(s).Since you state your income is $12000/year, many financial insitutions may noe feel that she is creditworthy to carry a substantial amount of debt or co-sign for your loans. If your mother is not eligible for a plus loan, then you will be able to borrow an additional $4000 unsubsidized stafford loan. There are also cumulative limits of $23,000 for an undergraduate education and a $65,500 combined limit for undergraduate and graduate education . </p>
<p>All in all it is most important that you have a financial safety- a school that if admitted you will be happy to attend and will bea financially feasible option for your family.</p>
<p>hope this helps and good luck to you.</p>
<p>Thank You, sybbie719 for your helpful and politic advice.</p>
<p>qwilde-- I'm assuming that you're qualified enough to get into HYP, and that you're just worrying about the financial situation.</p>
<p>I would suggest you look for other top schools, though not necessarily tier 1. The University of Rochester for instance gives around 75% of students some form of financial aid. They also give merit scholarships to like 20% of the student body. Schools like this are often the choice of ivy leaguers who were accepted but could not afford to attend. If you are qualified for HYP, you would likely get tons of financial aid and merit aid as well.</p>
<p>I will be going to U of R next year, so I may be a little biased, but the education is great, especially for pre-med or engineering. Also, you could do a dual major at Eastman (tied for Juliard as the top music school in the country). Overall, it has a great atmosphere, and I have no doubt that you would get just as good of an education there while not being as in debt.</p>
<p>Many schools have also disbanded ED because they feel it gives financially stable candidates an advantage, so they have opted for the non binding EA. I agree with this method, except for the fact that students can basically apply to as many EA schools as they want, and they are still at a slight advantage to those students who don't. Early bird catches the worm I guess...</p>
<p>I think all schools shouls switch over to Yale's SCEA plan, where the student can apply to a non binding early action, but they can only do so for one school. Don't know why this hasn't caught on...</p>
<p>Anyway, consider some tier 2 universities as well, and do not apply ED anywhere, since you might not be able to get the money you need. </p>
<p>Also, you don't seem to be in love with any school, so you really don't have much of a reason to apply early anyway. And the acceptance rate for ED II isn't usually as high as ED I, so the ED won't help much.</p>
<p>Sybbie - I have 3 questions:</p>
<p>1) If you are accepted ED and your parents require a PLUS loan to fund any gap, but then they subsequently get turned down for that loan, where do you go from there? By the time you know, you will have already repealed your apps and missed the window to get out of ED due to financial reasons and now you truly can't get the cash to go.</p>
<p>2) If you have already been admitted to other schools due to rolling admissions, then you find yourself admitted, ED, do you have to withdraw your acceptance right away? -- see question #1 - in case of PLUS rejection you want to have a backup plan. But you usually don't know for a number of weeks/months.</p>
<p>3) Do your combined limits mentioned above include PLUS - or are these only Stafford and Perkins?</p>
<p>Kind of convoluted the way I've worded it, but hopefully you get my drift.</p>
<p>No, my SAT scores hold me back. I only had 700 V and 670 M...I'm not exactly the greatest test taker. Unfortunately, I cannot really apply to anymore universities because my high school is in Italy, so consequently the required documents wouldn't be drafted and sent swiftly enough. I wish I had known about the University of Rochester though, as I probably would have applied. It was difficult this year without the advice of guidance counselor or a parent and trying to figure out, which schools would be good "matches". I applied ED to my school because I wanted some form of security. I was worried that I wouldn't be admitted anywhere and decided that ED would drastically bolster my chances, as the admit rate is 30% greater. Yes, I think more schools should endorse the SCEA plan. It seems much more equitable and rational.</p>
<p>"You misconstrued my point. I was arguing that everyone deserves a good education, especially if they have worked hard for it, despite their socioeconomic status. Have we really become a society that will only allow the affluent to attend college?"</p>
<p>Unlike many countries where only the extremely brilliant and/or very rich or connected can go to college, the situation is very different in the U.S. Not only do we have thousands of colleges, but we also have colleges ranging in price ranges. There also are plenty of part time and low cost options for students who are willing to start at community colleges or low cost in-state public institutions and/or work while they attend college.</p>
<p>No one is guaranteed to go to the most competitive college that their stats would qualify them for. However, income shouldn't prevent anyone from going to college. Plenty of people start at third tier or community colleges and have very successful and lucrative careers, too, including people who end up becoming doctors, lawyers and other professionals. Having to attend a low ranked college is not a kiss of death when it comes to having a good career.</p>
<p>Are you sure the documents can't be sent through some form of rush delivery? B/c the deadline is postmarked by Jan 15th, so you still have a week until then.</p>
<p>See what you can do if you really want to...</p>
<p>Where did you apply ED?</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you are accepted ED and your parents require a PLUS loan to fund any gap, but then they subsequently get turned down for that loan, where do you go from there? By the time you know, you will have already repealed your apps and missed the window to get out of ED due to financial reasons and now you truly can't get the cash to go.
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</p>
<p>At many places (citbank for 1) your will get a loan status in approximately a day of 2.</p>
<p>If your parents are turned down for a PLUS loan, you will be allowed to borrow an additional $4000 as an unsubsidized stafford loan. Your parents may alos have to look at other loan options. The big question is will the $4000 be enough to cover your gap and how much are your parents willing to borrow?</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you have already been admitted to other schools due to rolling admissions, then you find yourself admitted, ED, do you have to withdraw your acceptance right away? -- see question #1 - in case of PLUS rejection you want to have a backup plan. But you usually don't know for a number of weeks/months.
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</p>
<p>You are suppose to withdraw your applications right away because you have committed to attend your ED school. This is one of the reasons many parent on CC (myself included) say that if money is an issue, you should not apply ED because you are basically saying that you will attend if admitted regardless of the aid package. This is also one of the main reason why the money talk needs to happen between parents and students before any application is sent anywhere (I understand that many students feel it is them not their parents who are going to school however, unless the student is an independent student or independently wealthy, the school is looking to the parents for the money). In addition, you know up front how much your
parent(s) are willing to pay/borrow for your education and you can plan accordingly.</p>
<p>Your combined limits (are for the student only) include both stafford and plus loans.</p>
<p>qwilde,</p>
<p>were you admitted to your ED school?</p>
<p>I won't know until February.</p>
<p>Qwilde, I feel your pain. Here is my scenario, my kid has the marks, and a friend whose kid does not have the SAT's nor the AP's with high GPA but does have a decent GPA in school with non AP classes (chose not to take them or schools equivalent) and is ranked top 5% (don't understand this) , has the money. Kid applied to same school but RD, and most likely will get in because their school happens to be a feeder and parents will pay. Now my kid has been accepted there and we are going thru the fin aid stuff and will not be able to pay without incuring huge debt like many middle income family's. If my D does not attend for fin aid reasons and the other student does (because they can pay), is it fair that the kids goes because of ability to pay. It would stand to reason that since the school boasts about how smart the students are there and how hard it is to get in then, the other kid going would not prove that. I just wish someone would really be honest and say if you are middle class and not willing to pay through the nose like the wealthier folks, then don't apply!! In my vocabulary, loans do not equal fin aid. </p>
<p>I too am not asking for full rides. I just want to come out without having to go into 80K debt and above.</p>
<p>"I just wish someone would really be honest and say if you are middle class and not willing to pay through the nose like the wealthier folks, then don't apply!!"</p>
<p>Between financial aid estimators like the one you can get to from CC's home page to common data set info that one can get through colleges' on-line sies or through guides like U.S. News and World Report, one can find out lots of information about what to expect in terms of financial aid.</p>
<p>I always checked such info out early and steered my sons away from colleges that would have cost what my husband and I feel would be too much of our income and savings.</p>
<p>ONe also can find out lots of info about merit aid that can help one figure out if it's worth it for one's kid to apply to a particular college.</p>
<p>you have to go unless your fin aid is bad</p>
<p>
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you have to go unless your fin aid is bad
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</p>
<p>Remember that the college, not the student or their family is the one to determine whether or not the aid is bad or sufficient.</p>
<p>This does not speak to the point that I am trying to make : top private schools speak to the dollar first. So all the hoopla about grades etc, are moot. Kids applying ED to these top schools do so because besides having the marks they know their families can pay or they happen to fill the URM requirement and will be able to get need in grants/scholarship/work-study. </p>
<p>For everyone else as qwilde has been saying, you must settle or be prepared to spend the next ten years of your life paying off huge undergraduate loans.</p>
<p>Also, just about everyone I have spoken to hears the mantra about not fearing about how much it costs just apply and then worry about the finances later.</p>
<p>"or they happen to fill the URM requirement and will be able to get need in grants/scholarship/work-study."</p>
<p>Actually, from what I've read, I think that URMs are less likely to apply ED than are other students. I know, too, that according to The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, the black students who apply ED tend to have higher rejection rates than do black students who apply regular. It may be that the weaker URMS (who possibly also are affluent, so aren't that worried about the $) are more likely to apply ED because they hope that an AA tip will cause their weaknesses to be overlooked.</p>
<p>Given the fact that URMs -- particularly African Americans and NAtive Americans (and probably also Mexican Americans and Puerto Ricans) have on the whole lower incomes than do white Americans, my belief is that URMs would be overall less likely to apply ED because they'd have more than normal concerns about financial aid and would want to be able to choose from the best financial options.</p>
<p>At most elite schools, the admissions and financial aid offices are in separate offices (at some places even separate buildings) so unless you are checking off the box that you do not need financial aid or you are enclosing the big orange fee waiver applications, those schools do not even know if you need $1 or all of it.</p>
<p>I know in my house D applied RD because we could not go into the process blindly and not be able to compare packages. It worked out well for us, because she was able to get a financial review using a package from a peer school and her school upped her FA package adding more grant aid and reducing the loans.</p>
<p>I saw Michelle Hernandez on one of the morning talk shows back in September and she said that if you have those kinds of grades and are URM with low income applying ED helps.</p>
<p>to add on to northstarmom's post aI agree it will more likely bea student with lower stats who will apply ED in order to get locked in) strong student who is an URM will still be an underrepresented minority no matter when they apply .</p>
<p>I know that many of my D's friends who applied during ED (and were URMs) were deferred during the ED round and most who were accepted were legacies or recruited athletes. Since many URMs will apply during RD, it gives the school the opportunity to look at the pool as a whole.</p>