What happens to my financial aid if I get a scholarship?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
1

<p>Hey</p>

<p>I'm an incoming freshman at Penn and received about 45k in grant for this year based on need. I am now currently in the running for a 20k scholarship and won't find out if I get it until August 7.</p>

<p>If I end up being fortunate enough to get the scholarship, what happens to my need-based grant?? I have heard stories of other schools reducing their grants when a scholarship is reported to the point that the scholarship has no effect on the total cost. That doesn't sound very ethical</p>

<p>Thanks for any replies</p>

2

<p>You have heard correctly. Here is the policy:</p>

<p>Outside Scholarship Policy for Aided Students</p>

<p>When you receive an outside scholarship, i.e. scholarships awarded from non-governmental sources outside the University, you will receive a dollar for dollar reduction in the self-help component of your financial aid package. Self-help includes expected savings from summer earnings and work-study. University grant will be reduced only after all self-help has been eliminated. </p>

<p>Promptly report any scholarships or grants you receive from sources outside the University. </p>

<p>So I believe your “self help” would have been $3300 work study? Whatever your work study component, that is the benefit you will derive. The other $16,700 goes to Penn and thus reduces your grant, as you no longer “need” that amount.</p>

<p>I was shocked when I first found out about the policy as well, but it is what it is…the $3300 is still something, and if you don’t win the scholarship you won’t be nearly as disappointed.</p>

3

<p>Why isn’t that ethical? If UPenn is a school that meets full need and you no longer have that need what should they do? Just give you $20000?</p>

4

<p>You should understand that getting a scholarship reduces your ‘need’, and the college is in the business of supplying funds to needy people, not to people who have sources of funds. </p>

5

<p>What isn’t ethical? The ONLY reason you got the financial aid is because you had NEED. If you don’t have that need anymore, then why should you get that aid? If you had gotten that $20K scholarship before Penn did the aid package would not have been what it was, as you would not have had the need.</p>

<p>Having said all of this, here is Penn’s policy on outside awards: <a href=“Submit My Documents | Penn Student Registration & Financial Services| Penn Srfs”>http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/paying/outside-scholarships.htm&lt;/a&gt; . something you could have found yourself, very, very easily.</p>

<p>Most of the schools that I know, that are generous with financial aid, such as Penn, have that same policy. The outside award is applied to the self help component of the package first. When you lose the Direct Loan, you can still take it if you have any costs left within the official COA, just not on a subsidized basis, so you lose the subsidy only. When you lose work study dollars, you can then use those hours you would have been working at the Work Study job at a non work study job. </p>

<p>Some loss of financial aid, by the way, could be federally mandated. The way it works, is that the federal government REQUIRES payment of the FAFSA EFC by the student/family before any federal aid can be given. So a school is required to pull the federal money in such cases whether they want to do so or not.There are also COA stipulations to aid. You cannot borrow or get federal funds for school over the COA and outside scholarship money goes towards that. </p>

<p>Some schools do allow stacking of scholarships, their own and outside ones, though they do have to go by fedearl laws and those reductions have to be made where federal funds are involved. The same may apply with state money or other outside earmarked funds.</p>

<p>Some schools, however, do have limited funds that they give out for need, and those grants are such that they don’t want penny one of them to go to anyone without need, as they are set up solely to go to those with it. At such schools, if your financial aid package, were say $20K from their special need grant fund, and then federal, state monies including self help, that $20K would go directly towards that grant, and you would still be expected to work if you got work study, and borrow if Direct Loans, subsidized or not, were part of your package. If that is the policy a school has in place for outside scholarships, that is how they are treated. Many times the school have these policies clearly stated on their web sites as UPenn does, and it’s up to the student to take these policies into account when making their school choice decisions. My school allows stacking of awards to the extent permissable by law.</p>

<p>Be aware also that any grants in excess of tuition, fees, books, specifically required school supplies may be taxable income. Yes, if you hit the jackpot of $250K of scholarship money, you had better not spend it all , because come the end of the year, Uncle Sam is going to want his share. and a hefty piece that would be. $25K, not so much, but for many, even a few hundred to pay for taxes that they do not have is a problem. Also some schools, don’t know if Penn is one, does take excess scholarship monies into account in the subsequent year financial aid awards. </p>

6

<p>I actually do think it is somewhat of an issue that Penn does this. Unlike other schools, Penn does not give merit aid, and honestly I feel like this should be treated as such. A scholarship is an honor and you should be able to enjoy that just as if you were a student who wasn’t getting any financial aid.</p>

<p>Actually, if you have siblings in school, scholarships from one sibling affect the financial aid of the others. So families who do not need aid basically save a ton of money with scholarships, but families who need financial aid basically end up paying the same thing.</p>

7

<p>Thanks for all the responses.</p>

<p>I understand I may be wrong in describing the system as unethical, but at the very least it is very frustrating in my position. The school boasts it’s ability to allow students to graduate loan-free, and while I’m very grateful for the aid they have given me, the cost is still overwhelming for my family. I am in fact paying for the remaining costs after my grant 100% in loans.</p>

<p>It’s frustrating in the sense that all the teachers/counselors/everyone stressed the importance of applying for scholarships… when really, they should have first stressed looking into whether or not scholarships would make a difference. It’s a bit of a letdown finding out now that all the many scholarships I’ve been applying to were a waste of my time, and even if I get this $20,000 scholarship it will ultimately just be worth $3300. For me, I think the system is slightly corrupt because it’s literally leaving me no option save for taking out loans since the mighty FAFSA’s “EFC” does not accurately depict my family’s financial capability despite many appeals. I liked having the hope that as long as I work hard in finding scholarships and obtaining them through my effort and merit, I could make my way through college without piling up debt… but now I realize there’s really no way out of it. Even if I get a job while I’m a student and work a lot, that’ll just reduce my “need” grants. If anything, I’d appreciate if Penn’s (and other colleges’) whole slogan of letting students being able to graduate debt-free wasn’t thrown around so loosely.</p>

8

<p>Well the part I think is unethical is if you had won an outside merit scholarship and you did not need aid, then this scholarship would be a major benefit to you and your family. However, if you do need aid, then this scholarship would reduce your aid and even affect your siblings aid. I know people in similar positions who won an award at Penn providing them with full tuition for junior and senior year (the only one I know of that does this) to only find out that their sibling’s aid was cut at another school.</p>

<p>Penn already does a bad enough job of recruiting middle class and lower income students. I have heard that only 40% of students get aid versus 70% at Harvard. That is really ridiculous since to not qualify for aid, your family basically need to be in the top 5% of incomes. This really skews the culture an many lower income students have a hard time with the social life at Penn since a lot of students assumes everyone has money for fancy dinners and such.</p>

9

<p>Actually it says on the website that 70% of Harvard students receive some sort of aid. While Harvard and other schools that give similar aid have their own issues, we should not be concerned about them. Penn should be more concerned about doing the best it can.</p>

<p>There was a two part editorial in the DP this December titled “Impoverished at Penn” and detailed the struggles of students coming from families that need significant aid. Sugar coating the situation is not helping anyone. It really is time that Penn and many other top schools have a serious discussion about attracting more low income students and making it more affordable to attend and lowering tuition. </p>

<p>Sure the Penn fund will try to tell you that tuition doesn’t cover operating costs but that is complete garbage. There is so much excessive spending at Penn that could be used in more constructive ways than other than throwing parties and all these unnecessary events. The best way to spend this money would be to improve the science facilities which quite frankly are pathetic compared to other universities of Penn’s caliber and are really hurting many programs in areas like physics and chemistry, and to focus on recruiting more low income students.</p>

<p>This situation has become important to me because in the past few years, I have met a lot of incredible students who could never afford to go to a school like Penn. I think this is very unfair and that Penn is missing out on a lot of great students because of this. Additionally, I have become sick of the entitlement overwhelming the campus. A lot of these students feel that everything in life should be given to them. A lot of them are actually not that special either, they just knew how to game the system to get into Penn. This happens a lot through ED which is why I think it is ludicrous that Penn admits such a high percentage of its class ED.</p>

10

<p>@nightowl1, I’m not Penn bashing, I actually graduated this May and I loved many things about the university. I got a wonderful education, did great research and now am starting my PhD in one of the top programs in the world. However, this is something that Penn and all other private universities need to work on and compared to it’s peers, Penn has room for improvement.</p>

<p>What you say is just not true. Like I said, just read those articles in the DP. There are so many hidden costs in attending college which is only exacerbated at Penn where a lot of students expect you to have money. It’s a very difficult conversation to have, especially since we have a lot of people on campus who are not aware of or who are not very sensitive of this issue.</p>

<p>There’s also the situation that in certain states with great state schools like California and Michigan. Georgia Tech and Florida actually allow top students to attend without any tuition. Don’t get me wrong, I think education is the best way to use one’s money, but that is if one has the money. If a student will go through a lot of financial hardship to attend Penn when they can go to these other schools, I think it’s really something to consider. Sure, a state school like Berkeley will not give you the same individualized attention, but the quality of the university as a research powerhouse and the strength of the students is comparable to Penn.</p>

<p>The disparity in tuition between Ivies and state schools did not use to be this bad. Ivies used to be way more affordable, but unfortunately tuition has risen much faster than inflation and this is no longer the case.</p>

<p>In regards, to what I said the facilities, we do have a really nice nano tech building, but face it, DRL is pathetic. And it is especially embarrassing that it hosts some of the top researchers in their fields who are regularly recognized for their contributions. In fact, one of the next Nobel prize winners is very likely in DRL right now (everyone says its only a matter of time before he wins and it could even be this fall).</p>

11

<p>No @nightowl1, I never said that at all. What I am saying is that while Penn’s financial aid looks good on the surface and Penn is very generous compared to other schools, there are a whole host of issues that are pushed under the rug by a lot of people.</p>

<p>Penn is obviously not going to let everyone attend for free, but how about a bit extra money for work study so students can comfortably afford the life necessities (like I said, in the articles I pointed too in which several Penn students were interviewed many say they are literally counting pennies to get by.</p>

<p>You never addressed my point about lowering tuition. Don’t you think this would be best for everyone? I think the issue with the current state of affairs is that no one really knows exactly where that money is going. I think if the administration were held accountable to this things might be different. It’s a matter of balancing the budget. Not only do they need to raise money, but the university also needs to cut excessive spending. And believe me, my father has worked at a top ten university for 20 years and had said over and over again that this is a problem.</p>

<p>Also, to be clear, my comments about the social life are more to do with the excessive entitlement I see at Penn, not with financial aid. I think that because so many people have money, people are not as sensitive as they could be to other’s financial situations. For example, I find it disturbing that so many fraternities and sororities have dues and other obligations that completely shut out many students from joining. A lot of organizations and clubs do this too. There is a very noticeable culture of conspicuous consumption on campus that I believe can intercept with Penn’s mission as a research institution. I have also heard this about Princeton, that it is there is a dichotomy between Princeton being a world class research university and an elitist country club.</p>

<p>This is why I think these issues really need to be part of an ongoing conversation. People really need to be more sensitive to other’s situations. </p>

12

<p>I don’t think I’m for the whole need to reduce tuition and eliminate elitism (I don’t think those problems are very relevant anyway), but I do think it’s quite unfair that students without need can benefit enormously from outside scholarships while students with need cannot and are stuck with what the government/university has deemed sufficient enough of a grant. </p>

<p>But @nightowl1‌ can you please explain a little more about outside scholarships being able to offset things like student contribution and stuff? Are you saying that in my case, the scholarship would in fact be worth more than just $3300? (sorry for relating it back to my specific situation but I’m having trouble understanding this in broad terms)</p>

13

<p>@nightowl1‌ thank you so much</p>