What if your child's HS music teacher stinks?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>DD, vocalist, is extremely upset with the way her HS chorus program is going. The teacher does have some musical aptitude, but is A-D-D to the point of it becoming detrimental to the classroom environment. One week he has the kids split into groups to create a cappella arrangements for a competition he envisions organizing. Next week, nope! No more a cappella, instead they must concentrate on rehearsing for the two fund-raising concerts he has volunteered the kids to perform at. </p>

<p>When he takes the time to do arrangements, the arrangements are actually quite good. BUT he has been using the same four songs/arrangements the past two years my DD has been in HS chorus. And it's not like the guy is over-extended or anything. </p>

<p>I have said to my daughter that she has to tough it out -- she can't very well be applying for college-level music/vocal without having level of performance and commitment show up on her HS resume. But I am beginning to wonder if this is true? Would a college look just as favorably on a non-school-based choral experience? </p>

<p>Also, what about when it comes time for recommendations -- is it unheard of to NOT have a student's HS teacher do the recommendation letters? Probably I would use her vocal coach of 3-plus years, and the Minister of Music at our church.</p>

2

<p>If your daughter is going into Music Education, it might be important that she stay in the group. If her goal is vocal performance, no voice faculty will penalize her for harboring her resources during her audition year. Does he have a supervisor? He does sound rather unorganized, but talented, but who can tell? </p>

<p>Of course there will be the other issues of her friendships in the group, eligibility for honor choirs (all-state), etc. Good luck to her and you as you sort through this problem.</p>

3

<p>Vic- I'm speaking as the parent of a string player, and have no experience with the intricacies of vocal talent and programs. </p>

<p>Wow, this is a tough one.</p>

<p>My son had the benefit of an amazing and supportive teacher throughout his elementary and middle school experience, and things only got better when he hit high school. He had the full support of the department chair, the orchestra director, as well as the choir director (whom he had minimal contact). These were three very skilled professional educators and wonderful caring people who went out of their way to create a superb environment for the many serious musicians within our high school. We were blessed. You, and your d, apparently are not.</p>

<p>A couple of points to consider:
-Could the switch from acapella competition to fundraising concerts be a<br>
necessity to maintain the program? If so, I'd say the change is warranted.
-Your d is a sophomore? Would she consider dropping the choral program in<br>
hs? Will she miss the potential and varied performance opportunities if she<br>
left the program?
-could she replace the time with an equal or better quality choral experience?
-is it personality conflict, teacher's style, or professional incompetence?<br>
She's going to have to deal with these at various levels and stages of a<br>
college and professional career, in a performance area or life in general. You
have to experience enough of these issues to determine WHEN is the right<br>
time to make your stand, and at what potential cost and benefits.</p>

<p>My take is that a college will not take a negative stand because she no longer participates in the school sponsored program, provided that she continues to develop as a musician. Let's face it most hs programs are NOT geared to support or develop a high level talent. Some programs are so badly run that they can even be detrimental to a musician's skill development. In an emerging talent, this reason alone is enough NOT to participate.</p>

<p>Even at good hs programs, I've seen many high level instrumentalists not participate as they are involved in substantial high level alternative activity, through seperate pre-college programs, youth symphonies, and private study.
I don't know the extent of whether similar replacement experiences are available to you locally, or to vocalists in general.</p>

<p>It is not unheard of for recommendations to come from places other than hs music teachers. Those you cite are prime examples. In the case of my son, he had recommendations from both his youth symphony conductor and the Executive Director, plus his private chamber music coach in addition to hs department chair and orchestral director. (His school choices were all conservatories within university settings, with seperate apps for each entity. He used all the rec letters, intermixing them to provide the strongest position on each of the seperate and supplemental apps.)</p>

<p>If she does drop the hs program, her vocal coach's rec letter could explain it simply as the program was contradicting her private path of study. This is a perfectly valid reason for not participating. </p>

<p>It's a tough decision. If we were in a similar situation, I would have urged my son to take the path that would best prepare and position him for his college auditions. If he were repeating the same repetoire, or was asked to perform below his ability, I would have asked the same questions as you have.</p>

4

<p>Random thoughts:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>None of my D's or my S's music recommendations came from school teachers. S had multiple "higher level" people to call upon. D had a miserable school orchestra teacher, and never even considered using him (although he did offer!) She used two private teachers and a community group director. I think the two options you list are just fine.</p></li>
<li><p>My kids stayed with the school programs in order to qualify for things like all state and community programs (which require school participation by the student, in order to avoid schools complaining that students were dropping school programs in favor of community ones). They didn't enjoy the school programs, but it didn't really cause them any hardship to stick with them.</p></li>
<li><p>If your kid doesn't "need" HS chorus for anything, and can fill her schedule with valuable courses, she can easily justify dropping it "to make room" for other things. This won't work if she drops it for study hall or office aid, but I think she can explain it away if she fills the slot with an extra AP, or even another music course (our school has a great program - along with band, orchestra, and chorus, we have music tech, music theory, dance, musical theater, etc.) Just make sure she keeps singing elsewhere.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>If she provides a resume that shows church choir, community chorus, summer music programs, private lessons, etc, I don't think anyone will look down on her for skipping HS chorus. Besides, at least with instrumental college application, the audition is what makes or breaks it, not what's on the HS transcript.</p>

5

<p>DS stayed with fairly low level HS orchestra but always participated in others outside the school as well as well as serious lessons and summer programs and pre-college program at local university.</p>

<p>It didn't hurt him, and it did develop its leadership abilities. He became concert master which he took seriously. He enjoyed mentoring the less serious musicians, and one of his proudest moments was when his extremely brilliant friend (intel project level) who had been an indifferent musician asked for a viola for his high school graduation present. The school gave him recognition for efforts in the form of a scholarship of $1000. I don't think this was for his musicianship. One of his classmates is a professional level cellist who studied at Julliard with the most famous people. (DS is not this talented, alas.) Friend did NOT participate in any high school musical activities, and the school found S's dedication lauditory.
He actually found he very much enjoyed being part of this community, and sang in both HS choruses as well where the teaching was definitely less than stellar.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for all the advice. We just got back from one of the fund-raising concerts (it's fundraising for a region-wide after school arts program; the other is for a girls' school in Kenya).</p>

<p>The chorus was not good. They muffed the beat and key in one song, then lost the clap-beat in the second. My daughter was in tears on the way home, she was so ashamed. This is a choral program that has always been held in high regard for its performance level. The crowd definitely noticed the mistakes.</p>

<p>The teacher's only supervisor is the school principal, so he will be hearing from me. I think the music teacher has basic personality issues which everyone was able to shrug off with a "Oh, that's just him. What can you do?" But now the kids are feeling like he yanks them in this direction, then that direction, and that is no way to be managing a positive classroom environment. </p>

<p>Next year, when she is 16, DD will have the option of joining one of several good adult choirs in the community. I am thinking that may be the path we end up taking with her. Plus our HS does "block scheduling", so it is feasible that if she goes after a bunch of AP courses, she may be blocked out of chorus for a semester or two. </p>

<p>Alas, the artistes!</p>

7

<p>DD was vocal and had a lot of problems with HS music director. HS director was bitter and I think they all may be ADD from what I saw:) She had conflict of divas after DD declared VP as her major. </p>

<p>She stayed there to qualify for the other groups, continue choral work, and to particpate in events. Only used her for recommendations when required to have HS vocal on them. Her private teacher helped her select schools, got her ready for auditions and moved her to the level required. He had her do her own recitals and everything to aim her to the most appropriate schools. </p>

<p>The only real problem came when DD had to skip the regional chorus for college auditions. HS directors reputation was based on how may she got into that chorus and DD missing it was an affront to her. In the end it had no affect on her admission to schools.</p>

8

<p>My D started singing with a state-wide Children's Chorus in 3rd grade and moved to the Peabody Children's Chorus in 6th grade. She elected to play the violin in middle school rather than join the middle school chorus since she was with Peabody. She is at a performing arts high school that does not have a chorus - they only do solo work so it is not an issue. They don't even participate in all state competitions so missing those is not a problem. She did not do the Peabody chorus this year, however, and she was worried about how that would look on her resume. Her voice is much too mature for the Children's Chorus, however, and trying to blend with the younger voices was hurting hers. She has been assured that, if asked why she did not continue, vocalists will understand her reasons. She is not using her high school voice teacher for all schools - only those where she is sending in more than one music recommendation. She is using her private voice teacher - that seems to be the one the schools want to hear from anyway. Some of the rec forms are very specific and a choral teacher may not be able to even respond to some of the questions.</p>

9

<p>Reply posted twice.</p>

10

<p>National Association of Teachers of Singing - NATS. Check to see if there are any members in your area. Local associations of NATS have competitions for high school students as well as college level and adult. A recommendation from a NATS member is more than acceptable to colleges. I found during my D's middle school and high school years that the chorus teachers had no idea how to teach technique - breath control, etc. to students as they were focused on the one voice of the chorus. My D found a wonderful NATS member who was a Julliard grad (undergrad and master's) in our area. Singing solo is different than singing in a chorus and a good private teacher can help your D make that transition. </p>

<p>Also, be certain the teacher is well voiced in foreign languages as my D noticed at competitions that pronounciation for foreign language songs was often incorrect by students of particular teachers. It doesn't matter how beautifully that Italian song is sung if half the words are mispronounced. It helped that her European born teacher was fluent in more than one language and believed her students should understand what they were singing to properly emote during their performance.</p>

11

<p>Has your d considered (if she's a senior) entering the NFAA competition to gain recognition outside of school? The deadline I don't believe has passed. Our d had a totally unsupportive choir director so our d looked to the instumental instructor and ended up being a soloist in his jazz ensemble. She still sang in a capella , madrigals and chorale but wouldn't have dreamed of getting a recommendation from her music teacher because she did not respect him. D is now happily in the school of her choice. Your d's voice teacher will guide her and prepare her for college auditions as well as provide her with a reference. No worry.</p>

12

<p>Re post #6 from VicAria: a high school singer should NOT do chorus which is on the block system....way too much singing at one time. Maximum vocal health allows for 45 minute 2-3 times a day, with at least 2 hours separating sessions. Beware!</p>

13

<p>Lorelei -- thanks for that warning. But I let my daughter read through this thread (thanks everyone -- it helped so much!) and she laughed when she got to your post #12. She estimated that in their 80-minute block, they sing maybe 20-30 minutes in fits and starts. </p>

<p>Her private voice lessons are a solid 30 minutes, once a week; her teacher refused to extend them to an hour, and now I know why! Her private teacher is a young woman, so I continue to be somewhat leery of her knowledge base ... but between the feedback we got at DD's summer music camp, and bits like this ... at least DD has one teacher who seems to be doing a good job!</p>

14

<p>One great out would be for her to pick up a language in the choir block...imperative for vocal performance study. She will need at a minimum a (college) year each in Italian, French, and German (two years of high school classes). Spanish and Latin are nice, but count for nothing in vocal study.</p>