<p>Dude what the hell are you talking about????? It annoys me sooooooo much when people say this.. LOTS of PEOPLE?????? Dude last year only 238 people in the entire world got a perfect score and HYP admits more than 6000 people together.. so i am really confused. Is a lot of people like 7 or 9 or 11? Because when you say that most people think a lot is like like 200 and trust me not all the people with perfect scores get rejected. All you people who say all this stuff without facts please shut the hell up. MORE THAN 5000 PEOPLE WILL BE ACCEPTED TO HYP WITHOUT PERFECT SCORES... DON'T SWEAT IT PEOPLE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET A PERFECT SCORE.</p>
<p>I think you need to go back and read before you post, you don't seem to understand the concept of "2400s get rejected."</p>
<p>It means that a lot of people with 2400s get rejected, because those schools look at more than just SAT scores, otherwise, every one of those 2400s would be accepted. The entire point of the concept is that you don't need a perfect score to get in, while also underscoring the fact that it is still extremely selective.
Believe me, a lot of people here do have an idea what they're talking about, so take some time to get familiar with everything before you post.</p>
<p>My uncle is an admission officer for Cal Tech and he told me that it was VERY VERY rare that people with perfect score did not get accepted. A few of the exceptions were if they had any criminal record, below 3.0 GPA, didn't apply his or herself at school and terrible Recs and a terrible essay. However, most 2400 students are actually great students who strive hard to be as smart as they are, and most people have more than just a perfect score on their aplication.</p>
<p>I think the stat often quoted is that around 40-60% of people w/ perfect scores applying to HYP get rejected. As you noted, there aren't that many people with perfect scores so in terms of absolute numbers the number of rejections is not a lot. But percentage-wise, it's pretty high.</p>
<p>The number 238 also only refers to students who get 2400 in one sitting. At least double that amount will be students who get 2400 from multiple sittings.</p>
<p>On a more personal note, only Princeton has accepted 2400s in recent years from my school. Harvard and Yale both rejected all the 2400s I've known during my high school career. And at a school that manages at least five 2400s per class, that's saying a lot.</p>
I am not sure that Cal Tech is the best example. They seem to be rather numbers oriented in admits than other schools such as MIT. I agree that it would be rather rare that state schools reject perfect SAT scores with decent GPAs because they have to be rather formulistic in their admission policies, unlike private schools who can be more 'holistic.' That said, I don't think it takes a HYPMS to turn down perfect scores. Penn and Northwestern strongly consider the applicants interest in their schools (At Penn, Dean of Admissions, Lee Stetson stated, "if they are extra serious about Penn, Penn will make an extra effort for them. We've been very direct about it. Everybody likes to be loved, and we're no exception. Everybody likes to see a sign of commitment, and it helps in the selection process." For Northwestern, assistant director of admission Tom Menchhofer has said, “Clearly we like students who like us, and that comes across in the essays, the letters of recommendation, the student’s knowledge of and interest in the University, their activities — the passionate side of the application.”) And because they are not HPYMS, one would think that Penn and Northwestern would accept the vast majority of applicants with perfect or near perfect scores. But at least at Northwestern the statistics prove otherwise:
Percent admitted (from a few years ago):
ACT 35-36 (equivalent to 1560-1600 SAT): 66.5%
SAT 750-800 Verbal: 51.7%
SAT 750-800 Math: 46.7%
Valedictorian: 53.8%</p>
<p>Which is one reason I don't like the "chances" threads. Applicants put down these perfect or near perfect SATs and GPAs, and if the school is not HYPMS everyone says you are in, or should be in. This is clearly not the case. At a state school this may be likely, even perhaps at Cal Tech, but rightfully or wrongly, most AdComs at elite private schools don't go purely on the basis of numbers or strict meritocracy. They are trying to create the most diverse class of future leaders who will be happy and interact with one another at their respective schools. And not all AdComs will see an applicant the same way. Otherwise, why do they even mention what they look at besides SAT, GPA, Ecs? At Northwestern the four major categories that the AdCom looks at include academics, with attention to rigor of the curriculum and test scores; initiative, with a focus not only on activities, but also leadership, engagement and recognition; communication, specifically an evaluation of the applicant’s short-answer statements, “Why NU?” response and 400- to 500-word personal statement; and motivation, with emphasis on contacts with the University, personal connections and overall enthusiasm for Northwestern.</p>
<p>So I agree with the OP statement of "MORE THAN 5000 PEOPLE WILL BE ACCEPTED TO HYP WITHOUT PERFECT SCORES... DON'T SWEAT IT PEOPLE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET A PERFECT SCORE." But I do think you need to be in the ball park and try the best to make sure that other aspects of the application look good to the AdComs. There is a reason why they mention what they look at. I would take this at their word as they are certainly not mentioning these things to mislead the applicants. I think applicants sometimes think that schools should take students purely on meritocracy- top SATs and GPAs (as state schools do). But elite private schools are trying to act in their own best interest and are looking for future leaders of society (in all aspects and communities; science, arts, business, academia, sports, politics, segments of society, etc.) that in the end will benefit the school (in reputation, donations, etc.) and this comes down to something more than admitting just on the basis of perfect SATs and GPAs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
DON'T SWEAT IT PEOPLE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET A PERFECT SCORE
[/quote]
I agree with that part of your post, at least. People with low SAT scores might get in, and people with high SATs might not. The lack of predictability is part of what makes college admissions so interesting. :D</p>
<p>I knew a kid from my hometown two years ago who got a perfect 1600 in one sitting (11th in his class). He was pretty confident and applied to HYP, MIT, and a few others. He was rejected by all of them and ended up at Duke (rather bitter about it too). These things happen. Not in large numbers, perhaps, but they do happen (and not just at HYP). I've seen posters with near perfect scores get rejected at WUStL or Chicago, for example. </p>
<p>Still, the higher your SAT score, the better your chances of admission. The revealed preferences ranking had an interesting study about SAT scores and admissions.</p>
I am not sure that Cal Tech is the best example. They seem to be rather numbers oriented in admits than other schools such as MIT. I agree that it would be rather rare that state schools reject perfect SAT scores with decent GPAs because they have to be rather formulistic in their admission policies, unlike private schools who can be more 'holistic.'
</p>
<p>Just to check - you're not implying that Caltech is a state school here, are you?</p>
<p>Not at all. Cal Tech always has by far the best SAT averages, year after year. Considering MIT and Harvard must get applicants that also do well on these tests, I assume that Cal Tech focuses in a little more on having high scores. Just a guess. Also seems to be consistent from the statement that Sheed30 said about his uncle the admission officer for Cal Tech who told him that it was VERY VERY rare that people with perfect score did not get accepted since this is clearly not the case at most private elite schools, especially HYPMS. I'm not saying that Cal Tech admits like a state school either, since they, like HYPMS, must get tons of applicants with top scores. But Cal Tech seems to begin with the premise that you have those scores, then checks the other things. While at other schools, other factors can make up for the lack of top SAT scores.</p>
<p>Caltech considers grades, SAT scores, recommendations, essays, and personal character to be most important. Yale, Princeton, and Stanford, on the other hand, consider grades, SAT scores, class rank, curriculum, essays, recommendations, extracurriculuars, talent, and personal character to be most important.</p>
<p>I was sitting in the audience when a Yale ad. officer told an auditorium of more than 1,000 people that Yale had rejected almost 2/3 of those applying with 1600s (old scale).</p>
<p>Was he lying? Possibly. I don't think so, though.</p>
<p>"The number 238 also only refers to students who get 2400 in one sitting. At least double that amount will be students who get 2400 from multiple sittings."</p>
<p>Does this mean that 238 does not include people who get like 2290 their first time, then retake and get a 2400?</p>
<p>It means that some people might get 800/760/770 in one sitting, and maybe 750/800/800 on a second sitting, making their total composite score a 2400.</p>
I'd argue that it's not the SAT in particular that Caltech cares about, but it correlates with other important factors: research, aptitude in math/science, and so forth. It's not that Caltech picks people because of SAT scores - no one honestly thinks a 2400 is any more predictive than a 2250-2300.</p>
<p>
Sheed30 is wrong - one of the most blatantly false things I've ever read. It makes no logical sense if you have any idea of what Caltech admissions are about. Find me statistics or it didn't happen.</p>
<p>
Other factors can make up for SAT scores, but you're not so far off. For example, if someone gets a 5 on AP calculus or a 6+ on the AIME, Caltech probably doesn't care that such a student (for whatever odd reason) got a subpar score on SAT I math. All Caltech wants to do is make sure its admits can survive the core curriculum of 5 terms of math and physics (including quantum mechanics) - standards no other school has. Perfect SAT scores give no indication of that ability, but a poor SAT math scores pose a serious problem, and that's why Caltech has the highest lower quartile average.</p>