What is a good sat score to have a high chance at getting in?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Yale University
21

@Pennylane2011 , state schools weren’t what I had in mind when I was referencing Top 25 schools that offer full tuition merit scholarships – I was thinking of schools like Vanderbilt and USC. I don’t know if schools like Berkeley or UVA offer them, but I assume they do.

Regardless, again, I don’t know what the motives are. I have seen a few kids on this forum state that it is the expectations of their parents that they get into an ivy – so it could be the parents forcing them to apply to all of them. If so, that is a shame. I feel for those kids.

22

Well, if you read the article about this particular student, she didn’t just apply to all eight Ivies–she applied (if I recall correctly) to 14 schools, including the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Michigan, MIT, UVa, and Georgia Tech. She said that she was just hoping to get into one of the reach schools, because admission to them is so difficult. And she’s certainly right about that–even though she has great credentials, students not so different from her are rejected from top schools every year–just look at the results threads here on CC.

I don’t consider her list bad at all, if her primary goal was to attend a research university with highly able fellow students. She had reaches, matches (arguably), and safeties. (For her, as a Virginia resident, U.Va. was a safety, as probably was Georgia Tech).

There are two different issues, which have been discussed a lot on CC. One is whether it does a student any good to have this kind of result publicized. At least in her case, it won’t result in people saying that she only did so well because she’s a URM, since she isn’t one. The other issue is whether she got into one of her top choices SCEA, but then kept all of her RD applications open to trophy hunt. This we don’t know.

23

Yes, it could be parents, and yet, it is a choice some families make. There are many great schools beyond the Ivy’s and this student could have done well at a number of them. She’s quite outstanding. Hopefully she will choose the one that fits her the best.

24

@Hunt I don’t think anyone said she applied to only the Ivies. Of course, it would be very risky to apply exclusively to the Ivies. The discussion is over why people apply to ALL the Ivies.

25

Well, she applied to the most highly selective private research universities (give or take one or two)–plus two of the three private universities that are the most like them, plus Georgia Tech. That seems sensible to me.

26

And the question is why the “give or take one or two”? A few of the Ivy schools like Cornell aren’t the most highly selective, with test score ranges that aren’t particularly high, not widely known for STEM and offering not-such-great financial aid. If Cornell happened to play lacrosse in the Big East, would she have given the school a second glance? No offense to any Cornell fans out there. It is. no doubt, the ultimate dream school for kids who want to get into hotel management, veterinary school etc.

27

Admission at Cornell is done by college. IIRC the Arts & Sciences college at Cornell admitted between 11-12% last year, AEM (the undergrad business program) was under 8%. They’re not “The” most highly selective, but they’re not chopped liver either, as they say, IMO…

Wonder who the others of the “few” are. In “the good old days” we always had Penn to look back on, but now…

Stats for the engineering college are here:
http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/6574/screen/19?school_name=Cornell+University.
YMMV, but they seem “particularly high” by my standards.

In the odd chance that you weren’t joking about that STEM comment, Cornell is pretty widely known for STEM, actually. Just sayin’…

TABLE 2. Top 50 U.S. baccalaureate-origin institutions of 2002–11 S&E doctorate recipients, by institutional control and 2010 Carnegie classification Rank Academic institution Institutional control 2010 Carnegie classification S&E doctorate recipients

1 U. CA, Berkeley Public Research-very high 3,406
2 Cornell U., all campuses Private Research-very high 2,646

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf13323/

What the above means is that Cornell is the second most common undergraduate origin of people who go on to get science and engineering doctorates in the United States, for the periods indicated. It’s always second or third, pretty much, whenever I’ve looked anyway.

" The College of Engineering, with an overall ranking of No. 10 in the nation, had six of its graduate programs recognized in the top 10 of U.S. News and World Report’s 2011 rankings of “America’s Best Graduate Schools” and individual disciplines. The report was released April 15.

Within the engineering disciplines, Cornell’s biological/agricultural engineering program was ranked No. 4; civil, 10; electrical/electronic/communications, 9; industrial/manufacturing, 8; materials, 8; and mechanical, 8.

Also ranking in the top 10 was Cornell’s computer science program, which clocked in at No. 5 overall, with the specialties of theory, programming language and systems rated No. 3, 6 and 10, respectively. The physics program tied for No. 7; Cornell’s physics programs in the subfields of condensed matter and in elementary particles and string theory both broke the top 10. Chemistry was ranked at No. 10 in the nation."
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2010/04/us-news-six-engineering-programs-top-10

They allege to meet full financial need, From what I’ve read, some people found it to be plenty “great” enough, for them. For somebody else, suggest let the award come in then see what it says for them personally, as methodologies and circumstances vary. Additionally, IIRC they will match offers from the other Ivy League schools.

28

^Yes I agree; the CS department at Cornell is very highly regarded.

29

@monydad No one is suggesting they’re chopped liver. but you’re cherry picking with the acceptance rates. USC’s School of Cinematic Arts has an acceptance rate that is a fraction of a percent, but that doesn’t reflect their overall rate. Cornell’s overall acceptance rate is more than twice that of Harvard, Yale, etc. There are a fair number of “non-Ivy” schools that are more selective – Stanford, MIT and CalTech of course, but also Northwestern, UChicago, Vanderbilt, Duke, etc.

And no, I was not joking about the STEM comment. Most people consider MIT, CalTech, Carnegie Mellon, GA Tech as being widely known for STEM. Cornell is known for other specialties. That said, the stats you cite about Cornell being one of the top feeders for stem graduate programs is impressive. U of Illinois consistently ranks highly for computer science and engineering, but most people don’t think of U of I as being widely known for STEM.

As for financial aid, I’m going by Cornell’s own article that was linked here. Most schools claim to meet financial need, but the way they define “need” varies, as does the way they define “meet”. According to the referenced article, Cornell’s definition of “need” is not as generous as Harvard or Yale’s, Also, Cornell “meets” this need, in part, with loans, while other schools do not require loans.

I’m not saying Cornell is something to sneeze at, but if someone were simply going after an “Ivy” brand, Cornell would be one of the easier means of obtaining it.

30

.[ ]

31

Cornell CAS, AEM And Engineering are the only colleges/programs tthere that have analogs at the other ivy league schools, hence are most subject to cross-application. Students apply to a particular college there, not to the university as some composite. A student applying to Penn CAS will be probably applying to Cornell CAS, not some composite of Cornell including majors that are not part of Arts & Sciences. Ditto engineering.

I daresay every STEM person in the Ivy league, and in the field of engineering, is aware that Cornell is strong in STEM. Its reputation is not new. I’ve no idea what “most people think” but UIUC is quite well known in STEM fields too.

You are quite obviously not a STEM person.

Regarding financial aid, they say “If you receive a more favorable need-based aid offer from another Ivy League institution, Stanford, Duke, and/or MIT, we welcome the opportunity to match their offer of financial aid.”

Of course they may not match it. But if they match your financial aid, theirs is as good as yours, isn’t it? Seems worthwhile to try, if someone wants to go there.

32

@monydad No, I most certainly am not a STEM person. But my sons are. I live in Illinois and I know, only from my son’s research, about the reputation that U of I has for CS. But the average person who doesn’t frequent CC or USNWR would not know that about U of I. Even most people I know in Illinois don’t know that U of I has that reputation. It is simply seen as good state school. They also conflate UChicago with U of I at Chicago. The larger point being, certain schools have a STEM perception that universally known – MIT, Caltech, Carnegie Mellon, GA Tech – and others do not.

As for the financial aid, again, I am going by Cornell’s own article. If it were as simple as Cornell matching offers from peer schools, why are Cornell’s own coaches bemoaning the problem? It would seem to me that recruited athletes would be the ones most likely to get matching offers, right? And it would seem to me that coaches, more than most, would know to try to secure matching offers for their athletes.

Finally, I know this is personal to you as a Cornell person, but I mean no personal slight. I have no vested interest in any Ivy League school. I just brought Cornell up because it is one of the easiest Ivies to get into. Again, Cornell is certainly no slouch, just easier relatively speaking.

33

Cornell is a wonderful school, but data indicates most students admitted to another ivy and Cornell don’t choose Cornell. Maybe that has to do with financial aid, maybe it has to do with the location, the weather, academics, or the prestige factor. I don’t think the CC moderators will let me link to Parchment, but google Parchment Cross Admits. According to statistics on Parchment, when student’s are admitted to Cornell and any of the other ivies, most choose any other ivy by a wide margin – 92%, 85%, 81% etc. That data pretty much mirrors the NY Times survey from 9 years ago: http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/17/weekinreview/20060917_LEONHARDT_CHART.html. Also, according to the NY Times, Cornell has the highest overall acceptance rate of any of the ivies: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/04/15/education/thechoice-2013-acceptance-rates.html.

34

Let me reiterate that my intent was not to disrespect Cornell. It is an excellent school and I know I certainly wouldn’t have gotten in with my credentials. Cornell merely came up in a discussion about why a student would apply to every Ivy League school. Can a student genuinely be interested in every one of these schools or is he/she trophy hunting? If I were the type of parent who were simply seeking Ivy league admission for my son as a status symbol, I would have advised him to apply to Cornell because that would give him the best chance. I am not that type of parent and my son had no interest in Cornell. A classmate of his genuinely wanted to go to Cornell. Now, my son would have had a better chance of getting in. But why would we do that? Why would we increase competition against someone else who genuinely wants it, simply so my son could have a better chance at bragging about an admission in which he had minimal interest? That is my point.

35

I too meant no disrespect to Cornell and I agree with @Legacymom.

If kids and their parents bothered to look beyond the “ivy name” they would see there are considerable differences among each of the ancient 8 – so much so that IMHO, a student who applies to all of the ivies does seem to be trophy hunting, or at least trying to get their name in all the newspapers. One girl on CC this year even admitted that the only reason she applied to all 8 ivies was to see if she could do what Kwasi Enin did (she was accepted to 6 out of 8). Among certain kids, it’s quickly becoming “the thing to do.”

As a side note: It’s expensive applying to colleges! If you add up the cost of the application fee, official SAT/ACT submission fee, CSS Profile fee, it costs somewhere between $100 to $125 per school. Applying to all 8 ivies plus target and safety school’s add’s up. My kids applied to college 5/6 years ago, and at the time, I made this observation: Due to the cost, middle income to wealthy parents limited the number of college’s their student applied to, which precluded most from applying to all 8 ivies. The kids that tended to apply to 15, 20, 25 colleges, including all the ivies, were the student’s that received fee waivers, as the cost of doing so was just too prohibitive.

36

I just went through this process and am a STEM person. I had no desire to fill out supplements about “Why do you want to go to _____ University?” (and pay testing fees to College Board and application fees to said universities) that I did not want to attend. I was an educated shopper, not a trophy hunter or too lazy to look beyond USNews rankings or swayed by the league of a university or maybe I was just picky or whatever one wants to call it. I knew I was a very strong applicant but also that this process is a crapshoot. Half of the Ivies – Brown, Columbia, Cornell, and Dartmouth – did not make my final list based on my rubric and I instead added a few universities, such as Johns Hopkins, that were both higher ranked than these lower Ivies (for what USNews rankings are worth anyway) and better fit for me. In the end I applied to 8 schools, including a couple of fall backs that I could see myself at for the next four years.

I will be attending Yale in September.

Bringing this back to the OP’s question, I did not even remotely think about the SATs freshman year. I took some practice tests on my own from the Big Blue SAT College Board book over the summer before my junior year (but you will be taking the revised/new version so a different book to use) and scored well and only took them once.

37

Even if this is true, it’s kind of like trying to figure out which sport to choose to give you the best shot of going to the Olympics.

The kid may have preferred being in the Northeast, since that’s where most of the schools were.

38

Re expense of applying to all Ivies. If you qualify for an SAT fee waiver you get four application fee waivers. There are ways to get more, often through programs admistered by high guidance. If you personally can afford application fees, but attend a high school where many students may have financial need, you might be able to piggyback on the waiver programs. And if you are a trophy hunter, a news editor will probably choose the inner city kid over the boarding school kid.

39

@gibby Indeed! And on top of the application fees, score reporting fees and CSS profile fees, there are also the AP Test fees. And then there are the visits. Sheesh! My first 2 sons applied to 4 schools each. Our 3rd son, because most of his were reaches, applied to 6. (And even if expense weren’t an issue, we would expect them to keep the applications limited. You have to be genuinely excited about the school and I don’t see how that happens when one has a dozen schools in the list.) We have friends who are, roughly, in the same socioeconomic class and their daughter applied to 17! It is mind-boggling.

40

@Hunt, the Olympics analogy kind of makes my point. Did you see all the flak LoLo Jones got for joining the bobsled team?