There are sixteen million undergraduates in the United States in any given year. Three per cent of 16 million sounds like a lot of students to me.
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Those seven Chicago-area LACs have a combined undergraduate enrollment that looks like it is smaller than University of Illinois - Chicago. Of course, the seven Chicago community colleges enroll nearly twice as many undergraduates as University of Illinois - Chicago.
Since LACs are generally small, it is not too surprising that a large number of LACs may not enroll that many students compared to large universities.
There are, by most estimates, around 200-250 LACs, depending on the Carnegie sub-classifications, and they have, on average, 2,000 students. Since there are around 16 million undergraduates, that works out pretty much 3%.
Benedictine University - not a LAC, nor does it define itself as one
North Central College - LAC
Elmhurst College - LAC,
Aurora University - not a LAC, nor does it defines itself as one
Dominican University, not a LAC, nor does it defines itself as one
Wheaton College - a LAC
Lake Forest College - a LAC
People are surprised just how few LACs there actually are.
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To expand to all 50 on that list which you cited, 28 are LACs. Not bad, for S&E doctorates. Of course that is only 1/2 of all doctorates.
Here is Haverford’s tabulation, and LACs are 19 of the top 30:
When you include all PhDs, LACs continue to take up 2/3 of the top 100, the top 50, and the top 10.
It’s just how it is, and academics have already noted the pattern, commented on it, etc. I am not going to argue facts, and the strength of LACs at producing graduates who go on to do PhDs is a fact.
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For anyone interested in total R&D expenditures by school, FY 2019 is contained in a report dated January 29, 2021, Table 22.
647 colleges & universities reported their total R&D expenditures for Fiscal Year 2019. 19 universities reported over a billion dollars spent in one year for R&D.
The top LAC is #339 Wesleyan University almost ten million dollars.
Amherst at #380 $6.3 million.
Around #400 are Grinnell, Williams, Bucknell, Smith,and Franklin & Marshall all in the $5 to $5.6 million range, #574 Middlebury College at $1.6 million, #583 Lafayette at $1.5 million. Lowest amount reported was about $500,000.
Bates College was not among the 647 schools.
LAC R&D expenditures are tiny compared to the amounts spent by National Universities. 19 National Universities reported annual R&D expenditures of at least $1 billion for fiscal year 2019 which was released in a report dated this year (2021).
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Can we please just stipulate that the American basic science research pipeline is extensive, pervasive and probably the best in the world? And, that for the average undergraduate it might as well be taking place on the moon?
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Sigh.
That’s just me.
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Since last time you didn’t read my reply because “it was too long” - here is a short one which is not connected to my previous post, so it stays short:
Liberal arts colleges aren’t spending as much money on RESEARCH as RESEARCH universities do, because they are primarily undergraduate TEACHING colleges.
You are comparing a cow to a horse, and saying that a cow is better because it produces more milk.
When I say that horses are for riding and not for milking, you post again, giving me the milk producing statistics of cows as opposed to horses.
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Exactly this.
Except the guy who started this thread now has me wondering whether Wesleyan is actually a LAC at all. What with the film school and the smattering of graduate courses in STEM.
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Is the Robins School of Business at the University of Richmond a Liberal Arts School?
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Is the School of Liberal Arts at Tulane University a Liberal Arts School?
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Once again you miss the point.
The point is that the same LAC enthusiasts essentially claim that LACs have a near monopoly on small classes and teaching, then assert that LACs are the only schools which give undergrads an opportunity to do research–none of which is true.
Then when I & others give independent unassailable support of a contrary position, the name-calling and other silliness becomes the response from a couple of frequent posters in this thread.
I do not understand the reason for the hypersensitivity & insecurity of the LAC supporters. LACs are fine for some, while LACs are not attractive to others, yet others do not hold a strong preference either way.
P.S. Please do not direct any more posts to me. I have made my points & I do not want to debate or to argue. I understand your position.
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I don’t think I’m the one missing the point
My post is directed to another, not to you.
@James_West: We seem to be in agreement.
Sorry
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So I am not disputing in any way that Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Wesleyan, Smith, etc… are LACs because they are. Bucknell
is not a LAC and calling it one is not accurate and is misleading.
Wesleyan is a college with the overwhelming majority of its academic programs in the liberal arts, making them a Liberal Arts College. Bucknell is not a college. It’s a university. When you call it a college, and it’s a university, I would consider that not accurate. Bucknell has three undergraduate colleges, Engineering, Management, and Arts and Science. Calling the College of Arts and Science at Bucknell University a LAC would be accurate because it is.
I get it. LAC has become a term that describes a college or university that fits specific general criteria. Lifted right out of USNW. “Liberal Arts Colleges emphasize undergraduate education and award at least half of their degrees in the liberal arts fields of study.” That many people understand this as I do now. I didn’t know this when I started to look for colleges for our eldest son. In my OP, I thought a LAC would be right of the Julia Roberts Movie.
The responses in this thread, especially the one from Lindagaf that Harvard College is a LAC within Harvard University, have given me a clearer understanding of what Liberal Arts School or College is. Not what they are called or generally referred to as but what they are.
No one is ever going to call MIT a LAC, including me. Clear to me now, though, is that The School of Humanities, Arts, and Science within MIT is a liberal arts school because it is. The Robins School of Business at the University of Richmond is not a liberal arts school because it’s not. Call them anything you want. It’s not going to change what they are.
I
My daughter attended a large, nationally ranked and highly regarded public university. 100% of the undergraduate students who wanted to participate in research were able to. While it is true that humans do research, and while it is true that humans attend colleges, all research experiences are not the same. They just aren’t. And my kid was not in an honors college where special perks might be provided.
Research involves lab work, but there is much more. Traveling, presenting at national conferences, meetings with scientists, publishing, research team meetings, hours and hours of reading, etc. And quite frankly that comment about profs writing in the names of students who really don’t do the work is insulting.
All universities are not the same. The experience noted by my daughter would not have been obtained at our very good top state university, despite that school offering research. Not one professor returned an email- and these were the profs in charge of the program. We could not find one kid involved in research, and we know more than 50.
And…her experience would not have been obtained at an LAC. And I say this as somebody with family and close friends whose kids attend Carleton, Hamilton, Swarthmore, Colgate, and Davidson. After speaking with well over a dozen students and spending the night at 2 schools, she was unable to find one student whose experience matched what she wanted. Not one. And this is somebody who loves small, discussion based classes.
LACs are some of the best schools out there, but they are not perfect at everything and they are not for everybody…despite what is stated on paper regarding research (and yes there is research, and yes students get published).
The same holds true for my daughter’s school- it’s not perfect and it’s not for everybody. But it’s a place where she thrived, built a phenomenal resume, developed lasting friendships with profs and researchers all over the world, and immersed herself in the science community…and that’s all that matters when it comes to your child.
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I’m not sure if US News has an accurate definition of LACs. I graduated from one. A LAC is not something easily defined by metrics (such a non-LAC thing to do!).
I’ve also attended post grad schools. Those included a large public university and a private mid sized university. All great experiences. Truly. But they are completely different experiences.
To graduate from my LAC, you had to take a minimum amount of english, math (yes math, through calc), history, social science (psychology), language, and philosophy. These were minimum requirements and they were not just one class. I had to take 4 semesters of philosophy, for example.
Then, I had to take the usual coursework for a major. My LAC is known for its science Dept. We apparently spit out great med school candidates. We also have a strong business dept. So it’s not as if having hard science degrees make you less of a LaC.
I enjoyed my experience at a LAc for this well rounded education. Could you take the same coursework at a public university? I guess so. But it is something different when that coursework is the minimum for all students. There is an ethos at a LAC that is hard to replicate.
As for Harvard College…. Never attended it. But I would not call it a LAC within a university. Harvard has many great things going for it, but a LAC in any respect is not one.
And if you or your kid wants pure research, I would not send them to a LAC. But if your kid wants to one day run a research company, consider a LaC.
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For a perspective from a national publication, U.S. News provides a survey-based ranking of schools at which “students receive the opportunity to do intensive and self-directed research or creative work that results in an original scholarly paper or other product that can be formally presented on or off campus.” The list extends to 56 colleges, and includes a variety of schools, with examples such as MIT, Yale, Stanford, Amherst, Wooster, Davidson, Carleton, Duke, Harvey Mudd, UC–Berkeley, Bates, Swarthmore, Hamilton, Pomona, Northwestern, Stony Brook and Penn.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/undergrad-research-programs
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