<p>My son (high school senior) really doesn't have a clue, except what I have warned him, of how difficult engineering is in college.</p>
<p>I have suggested he look at other majors, that don't require so much studying. </p>
<p>However, he has said that he really does think he wants to pursue engineering. He says he likes calculus and physics, although he's not doing that well in his AP calculus class. He complains that the other students (Korean or else day students) copy other students' homework but then ace the tests, and he's getting 67's (lately). I had to explain to him that his doing 10 hours of study (which he thinks is plenty of study time) just before the test isn't the way to go, nor does he have their backgrounds in math. He also is taking calculus-based physics, in which he is doing just slightly better than in calculus, and didn't realize until lately that algebra-based physics isn't what's being used in the real world. He was quite surprised when I clued him in to the concept of 'distributed learning', not realizing that studying 10 or so hours before the test isn't the best way to learn something. He doesn't live with me, and that's one reason we haven't been in close touch about this, among other reasons.</p>
<p>Could someone give me a realistic picture of how hard this field of study will be in college? If this helps, he did get a 650 in math the one time, which was last year, that he took the SAT test (with no preparation).</p>
<p>I study a TON. I usually study around 4-5 hours a day, in addition to homework and classes. Its hard, but its worth it. EE is a great major for career prospects and the later classes can be a lot of fun.</p>
<p>I find it strange that you put “korean” in parenthesis. Are you targeting them? If not, what was the point of including the race of students copying hw from each other? Who cares if they’re copying hw, they’re acing the tests that’s what the matters.I don’t think they’re copying the tests too are they? If your son is getting 67’s on calc tests, then obviously he is not doing something right.</p>
<p>I’m doing my first year of engineering. I’ve been out of school for 8 years so going back to school was a shocker. as well it is time consuming. the material is layed out in an easy fashion. but you need to do lots, and lots of practice questions in order to understand them from every angle. and thats the hard part… finding the time to study. a lot of my class mates stay up until 1 am. I go to bed around 10 and i am doing fine. </p>
<p>but i think your son needs to hold at least an 80% average in all classes just to get into the program.</p>
<p>“Something tells me this is just very, very good trolling.”</p>
<p>Well, no, I’m NOT trolling! I’m a mother. I don’t ■■■■■.</p>
<p>I’m a little shocked to be accused of that, to say the least.</p>
<p>My son goes to a school with lots of foreign students. It’s a small school. The foreign students are very hardworking kids, and are taking the same 2 difficult courses (difficult at this school–these 2 courses would probably just be regarded as typical rather than difficult at a competitive public high school) he is taking. That they are Korean was by NO stretch a slam against them! I never even thought of how that would be interpreted. It’s just that is the predominant ethnicity of the foreign students in his class. Nor am I aghast that they are copying homework. For a lot of kids in senior year, the homework is ‘busy work’ if they have a really good math background, and I assume that is the case here–or else they took calculus last summer for background knowledge and now can coast. They are aceing the tests, and that’s pretty impressive–and what counts, after all. Oh, and I certainly do not think they are cheating on the tests! These are smart kids, they don’t need to cheat to do well!</p>
<p>I wanted to be able to tell my son that, yes, I can back up my assertion that engineering is a hard major for which you have to study 40 hours a week. I merely wanted confirmation by a few engineering students or engineers that the workload is tough. Since my son’s dad isn’t interested in discussing the topic with my son, it’s up to me, and what do I know about engineering except what I’ve picked up from this site? </p>
<p>Thanks to all who responded, and if anyone else wants to weigh in with any other comments, I’d be interested in reading them. </p>
<p>First semester classes could possibly include calc 1 and chem 1. I’m a civil engineering student and you absolutely need to study, there’s no set hours you study and work problems until you understand it. Another thing if he wants do major in engineering please don’t try to convince him to do something “easier”.</p>
<p>Can you arrange for him to attend an overnight visit or program at an engineering school where he could listen to seminars and talk to other students about the rigors of engineering? Most schools and students are pretty vocal about the time and effort required for engineering majors. The problem may fix itself if he doesn’t get into an engineering school or later have the qualifications for the major. Many students change their minds after just one class of college-level calculus or physics.</p>
<p>It all depends on the student. My first semester I didn’t “study” at all. I have a couple of hours of homework/programming a week, but mainly I just paid attention in class and that was enough to do well for me. In some of my classes though it took students much longer to do the same work. He needs to learn to gauge how much time it takes him to learn something and then adjust his schedule accordingly to allow him enough time. (I’m Computer Engineering btw so Im taking a lot of EE classes)</p>
<p>What kind of high school background did you bring with you to college, Zman5? </p>
<p>Also, isn’t calculus-based physics the best class to take in high school to prepare for an EE college major, as opposed to algebra-based physics?</p>
<p>I was homeschooled all through high school. I had taught myself C++ in highschool, took Calc BC, and taught myself the first semester of physics (calc based) in high school although I didn’t test out of physics. Calculus based physics would definitely be the best physics class to take in high school to prepare for EE. It may not be the best class to take for EE, it most certainly will help. Algebra based physics I have found completely useless in practice. The class’s main purpose is to prepare someone for calc based. Math is very important, and I personally feel that math may be the most important subject to prepare for EE.</p>
<p>Let him pursue engineering. He will have to find his own way in college or come first midterms he’ll drop out because he won’t be able to deal with the workload. At least thats what ive seen at my school.</p>
<p>Engineering is hard. It’s very mathematical. In order to do well, he needs to develop better study habits. It’s not a poor reflection on him; every engineer needs to learn how to study efficiently. That’s why it takes so long at first. Read the lesson before class so the class is review. Do homework as early as possible so you can ask for help. Not only should he not be afraid to ask for help, he should plan on it. He needs to master the material. It’s the people who are too proud to ask for help that have the most trouble. Get him a tutor so that he learns calculus really well, so that getting 100 is easier and he could have gotten a 100 even if the test was harder. If he does all that, eventually, he’ll figure out how to do well.</p>
<p>Engineering is extremely enjoyable. There are few other fields where you spend you’re whole life learning new things that push the cutting edge of technology. I could not imagine enjoying doing anything else nearly as much.</p>
<p>Thanks for the GREAT post, Classic Rocker Dad (love your moniker, BTW). I’m printing it out for my son, that’s for sure.</p>
<p>GLOBAL TRAVELER: What is an AP Calculus class?
What is an AP Physics class?
…and how do they determine…
AP means Advanced Placement, and if you score high enough on an AP test given at the end of the year by the College Board, you could conceivably skip the first year of calculus in college. I’m not expecting that, by the way. Ditto for the physics class he’s taking.<br>
How do they determine aptitude? I don’t think they do, if the student isn’t really working to the level of a college freshman. Maybe my son does have the aptitude. My problem is my son isn’t studying these 2 high school courses all that hard, and if he plans to coast the same way in college, he had best skip engineering, which appears to be a downright time-intensive and labor-intensive major. this is a practical consideration. The drop-out rate in engineering is pretty high at the end of freshman year, and I’d just as soon he not waste his time flunking engineering courses in his freshman year if he isn’t going to step up. </p>
<p>wow…studying 10 hours before a test isnt enough for ap calc??? that sure as hell is a lot more studying than i do and i plan on majoring in chem e next year as a freshman…</p>
<p>I agree with zier9993. I study for AP Calc tests predominantly by paying attention in class. In fact, I have yet to spend more than 1-2 hours preparing for an AP Calc test outside of class. Point being, your son either isn’t studying effectively, isn’t paying attention in class, or has serious comprehension problems with calculus. If the problem is one of the first two, it can be solved fairly easily. Simply study more effectively, by doing challenging practice problems, or, if the problem’s paying attention, simply pay attention.
If the problem is difficulty understanding the math, it may be his teacher’s fault, but if other students are doing well, it probably isn’t. Thus, you should either consider getting him a tutor, or have him begin considering a field that isn’t calculus-intensive. However, you say that he got a 650 on SAT Math with no preparation. While not stellar, your son certainly is good at math, and perhaps with studying, would have scored higher. The fact remains, though, that even with studying, he’s not doing well in calculus.</p>
<p>I myself am considering EE as a major, and have learned that it is one of the most math-heavy engineering fields. If he is serious about EE, realize that he will need a strong foundation in calculus if he wants to succeed in college.</p>