What is CCNMVP and T14?

<p>I see CCNMVP and CCN all over this board. What does it stand for?</p>

<p>And also I assume T14 stands for the Top 14 law schools. But according to whose ranking/list? And why is it Top 14 rather than Top 15?</p>

<p>Thank You.</p>

<p>CCNMVP is Columbia Chicago NYU Michigan Virginia Penn. </p>

<p>The top 14 are the top 14 in the US News rankings. The same 14 schools are in the top 14 every year, while several different schools have occupied the 15th spot.</p>

<p>and what is the groupings with in the T14?</p>

<p>It seems in most of these posts its Harvard, Yale, Standford and then there is a second group (CCNMVP?), and then third group, all within the T14. Can someone tell me the breakdown and explain why it's broken down that way? Thanks.</p>

<p>The rest of the T-14 are (in no particular order)</p>

<p>Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern Cornell and UC Berkley (Bloat)</p>

<p>I know what schools are in the T14, but I wanted to know which ones are grouped together within the T14 though. Thanks.</p>

<p>They are group just the way you stated in your previous posting.</p>

<p>YS
CCN
MVP
then the rest (they usually are not grouped together)</p>

<p>you mean YHS, correct?</p>

<p>Berkeley is known as Bloat? Is it ever grouped with Penn, Michigan and Stanford (PMS)?</p>

<p>Boalt Hall school of law. Not Bloat</p>

<p>Guys, My bad..</p>

<p>So sorry about the misspelling (never said typing was my strong suit).</p>

<p>sybbie- with all the holiday parties and eating and drinking a bit more than usual- I think we all feel a little bloated!</p>

<p>Happy Holidays to all!
Marny</p>

<p>greybeard- no one on this board has a sense of humor. That was funny.</p>

<p>Nevermind, i did think bloat was funny but i thought it was a serious question until i re read it and noticed the PMS refrence.</p>

<p>All of the top 14 have been in the "top 10" in US News' rankings at least once. No other law schools have been. </p>

<p>Since US News starting ranking Law schools, Yale has been #1 every year. Harvard and Stanford have been 2 and 3 every year, but which is 2 and which is 3 has varied. </p>

<p>For at least the last 15 years, places 4,5, and 6 have been occupied by Chicago, Columbia and NYU, hence the CCN. These schools have switched places too--but are always 4, 5, and 6. (Back when I was applying to law school, UMIch was more prestigious than NYU.)</p>

<p>7-14 go up and down in the ratings and in and out of the "top 10." I respectfully disagree with sybbie that there is another layer of MVP. Right now, UCal--Berkeley (It's no longer known as Boalt) outranks Virginia, for example.</p>

<p>Moreover, in truth, these 14 are the only truly "national" law schools. Their student bodies come from all over the US. UTexas, which is every bit as good a school academically as those near the bottom of the top 14, IMO, is not a "national" law school because most of its students come from Texas. Ditto UCLA.--except of course its students come from California. Vanderbilt has leapfrogged up the rankings in recent years, but its reputation is still much stronger in the South than it is in the rest of the US and it has never been in the top 10.</p>

<p>Good points all, though I might interject that the more important factor in determining "national" caliber schools is not whether the student body comes from all over the country, but rather whether or not graduates can get jobs in major law firms anywhere in the country. </p>

<p>In this respect certain lower-ranked law schools get a huge boost from location. A Fordham graduate, say, would have difficulty getting a job at top firms in Boston or LA, but the school is reasonably well respected in New York, and many Fordham grads will end up sharing offices with columbia NYU and Harvard/Yale grads as first year associates, and so the school draws people from all over. There are a number of arguably much more highly ranked/respected programs in the South, like Vanderbilt and Emory, but I imagine all but the very top grads will struggle to land jobs with firms outside of the south.
Thus a lot of kids who aren't "from" New York, but still have aspirations to practice financial law say, or simply live in New York, will still gravitate to respectable New York schools like Fordham and Cardozo. I suspect that these schools have fairly geographically diverse student bodies, yet I might not define them as "national" because few of their grads will practice outside fo New York. This is true of respected but not quite tip-top programs in Boston as well, like BU and BC. (I would, suspect that a similar situation occurs with schools like UCLA, with people who want to practice entertainment law, though I maybe the fact that it is a public skews it more heavily towards CA residents.)</p>

<p>Berkeley has announced that it intends to de-emphasize the name Boalt, but will still use it "within the family." Their web site still uses the name extensively: School</a> of Law - Boalt Hall</p>

<p>There are schools that have a greater claim to being national law schools than some of those in the top fourteen, if geographic diversity is determinative. Vanderbilt's most recent class of 190 includes students from 35 states plus the District of Columbia. No more than 21 come from any one state. At Berkeley, on the other hand, "We strive to enroll a class that has a majority of residents, but we offer admissions to an equal number of residents and nonresidents in order to obtain the ration we seek."</p>

<p>Again, as someone else mentioned, the distinction between "national" and "regional" schools has little to do with where the students come from and more to do with where they end up, or at least where they could go if they wanted to.</p>

<p>Seems like NYU Law only went up in the top 5 in the past 20 years or so.....because when I say NYU Law, nobody's ever heard of it. But when I say Columbia, everyone knows it.</p>