What is everybody’s thoughts on adderal?

Student Lounge College Life
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Nonetheless, you can use it responsibly. It's just that you need a level of self-control to use it responsibly.

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<p>If you are getting it as a prescription, sure. Otherwise, it's really unsafe, AND illigal...which is why it's also unfair in a way that say, tutors, are not.</p>

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Here comes the "study ahead of time" arguments.</p>

<p>Life happens sometimes guys. Nobody can always be perfectly prepared for every test.

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<p>Yep. And then (as BlahDeBlah) says, you pull an all nighter, you don't resort to illigal drugs as a crutch.</p>

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Easy...just don't get into bed and go to sleep. I've done it...not fun but not impossible.

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<p>Easy for you doesn't translate to easy for everyone else.</p>

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either you have some serious time management issues that you need to sort out

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<p>Time management skills are more difficult for some to sort out than others. Oftentimes due to immature frontal lobes. It's a product of society's expectations - this society does not reward many people who are distractible and who have low attention spans. Distractible people may improve a bit through "willpower", but that doesn't equalize their chances with everyone else (moreover, thought suppression actually makes it much more difficult to study due to the rebound effect - there is a lot of psychological research to support this - check out "ego depletion"). If equalization means a bit more dopamine in the brain, then by all means go for it.</p>

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Otherwise, it's really unsafe, AND illigal...which is why it's also unfair in a way that say, tutors, are not.

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<p>Do you realize that some doctors are more likely to give out Adderall than others? Some are perfectly willing to dispense it, whereas others are extremely reluctant to do so? This is unfair in itself.</p>

<p>Sure, those who don't have prescriptions have a risk of using it irresponsibly. That doesn't prevent it from being used responsibly, if in the right hands.</p>

<p>It's illegal - so what - so is consuming alcohol under age 21. Fact is - most use it with impunity anyways.</p>

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Here comes the "study ahead of time" arguments.</p>

<p>Life happens sometimes guys. Nobody can always be perfectly prepared for every test.

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<p>Hey, some people can cram the night before and still ace the test - due to raw intelligence. That isn't fair either.</p>

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<p>Sorry, where did I say that I frequently stay up all night and that I have superb concentration and don't do things like sit in front of my computer for 3 days straight posting on message boards like this because I can't *****ing make myself concentrate enough to do my work? I must have forgotten all about writing that, and then I guess someone deleted it before I could read it and remind myself. Funny. But by all means, continue to justify your illegal drug use with vague reasons about the oppression of society and the horrible unfair fact that all people are not exactly the same, if it makes you feel better.</p>

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<p>For god's sake inquiline stop blaming everything on biological factors like differences in frontal lobes and differences in intelligence; genes are not the ultimate determining factor whether to take adderall or not.
This doesn't take into account the plasticity of the body and brain; using or training a certain part of it (or a certain characteristic) will make it more effective, or stimulation of different genes in different ways will trigger different developmental processes.</p>

<p>In other words, it's easy to say "I'm this way because of my genes, I guess the only way to even the playing field is by taking drugs." There's only one real way to do better, and that's buckle down and improve yourself and study. It's easier for some than others, but that's not an excuse to take drugs.</p>

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Sorry, where did I say that I frequently stay up all night and that I have superb concentration and don't do things like sit in front of my computer for 3 days straight posting on message boards like this because I can't *****ing make myself concentrate enough to do my work?

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<p>And not all of us are wasting all of our time on message boards. Some of us are inherently distractible and find something else to do just because staring at our work for several more hours isn't going to help us.</p>

<p>The fact is - diagnostic criteria for mental illnesses are not clear-cut. There's probably a continuum. I'm not quite sure if ADD is even a mental illness at all (except at the most extreme levels). Again, it's just that human brains have many maladaptations that make it harder for the distractible to survive in the digital world.</p>

<p>And why would you care about what the hell other people do anyways? Maybe since you're inherently bigoted against those who are distractible and have little willpower?</p>

<p>==

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For god's sake inquiline stop blaming everything on biological factors like differences in frontal lobes and differences in intelligence; genes are not the ultimate determining factor whether to take adderall or not.
This doesn't take into account the plasticity of the body and brain; using or training a certain part of it (or a certain characteristic) will make it more effective, or stimulation of different genes in different ways will trigger different developmental processes.

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<p>Hey, guess what? Those factors are the factors used in diagnosing those who have ADD and those who don't have ADD. It's just that some people miss the diagnostic criteria due to various factors, or desire to go into highly abstract fields where one needs a higher level of base attention span to succeed in. I enjoy math, and I want to pursue it more than most other fields. And if I need Adderall to pursue it, then what's to ****ing stop me from taking it? (that is, if I had access to it?)</p>

<p>Yes, I realize that belief in neuroplasticity DOES correlate with improved outcomes. A belief in neuroplasticity does NOT have to be mutually exclusive with the use of Adderall. It comes much harder for some people than others, and Adderall can be used as an occasional aid for lost time. (weekly won't get you addicted)</p>

<p>For some people, such improved outcomes are nearly impossible within a respectable timeframe (respectable timeframe being in the span of the school year - the frontal lobes don't stop developing until the 20s, and some people are developmentally delayed).</p>

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In other words, it's easy to say "I'm this way because of my genes, I guess the only way to even the playing field is by taking drugs." There's only one real way to do better, and that's buckle down and improve yourself and study. It's easier for some than others, but that's not an excuse to take drugs.

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<p>Hey, guess what? Cost/benefit analysis. As long as you can use drugs responsibly, then why not?</p>

<p>As I said before, drugs are not to be used as a crutch. But they can be used as an aid.</p>

<p>If the net outcome is that I learn more, then I think that's a good enough outcome, irrespective of whatever the hell anyone else thinks.</p>

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<p>there are some good arguments against the illegal use of amphetamines.</p>

<p>Only that I’ve never seen them brought up</p>

<p>1) it damages the integrity of the purpose of tests. Tests are supposed to measure knowledge and aptitude that a person has under his normal behavior. Since amphetamines change his behavior in such a way such that he’s no longer normal, it hurts the test’s reliability for him.</p>

<p>(the exception is when the person’s normal behavior is when he is under amphetamines).</p>

<p>This argument moreover does not apply to a person who takes it to merely learn a chapter of say, abstract algebra for fun (or to do anything independently) Thus, few had issues with the use of them by Erdos.</p>

<p>Moreover, if a field requires that a person has specific knowledge (but does not attempt to test for the ability to learn under his normal behavior - a lot of programs do look into this - they see tests in totally unrelated fields as some indicator of aptitude), then the person's knowledge in that area is just as valid irrespective of how he accumulated such knowledge.</p>

<p>2) it hurts those with authentic prescriptions (since it makes it harder for people with authentic ADD to get the prescriptions they need, without initially going on Straterra).</p>

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As long as you can use drugs responsibly, then why not

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Because those who chose not to break the law and take illigal drugs are put at a disadvantage. If you (general) are in a class that curves grades and take Adderol to do well, it could have a real negetive impact on those who chose to do things legally (think highly competitve pre-med classes). </p>

<p>If you can't get do the work/get the grade you want/whatever without resorting to drugs, maybe you arn't ready for the workload. (Note: this DOES NOT apply to people with legetimate ADHD problems. I'm talking about people who by the drugs illigally or lie to their doctors to get them, for the specific purpose of enhancing their ability to study and do well in school).</p>

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<p>"it damages the integrity of the purpose of tests. Tests are supposed to measure knowledge and aptitude that a person has under his normal behavior. Since amphetamines change his behavior in such a way such that he’s no longer normal, it hurts the test’s reliability for him."</p>

<p>Darn, beat me to it.</p>

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<p>But you don't care at all about any of those reasons, as long as you get to get ahead, right? I wasn't aware that I was bigoted against myself...thanks for bring that to light. Thanks also for informing me that the reason I'm even posting this is because I've decided to find something else to do other than stare blankly at my work...and here, I thought it was because I superglued my butt to the chair by accident. After I'm done posting this message, I'll go sit and stare at a wall and think up insults to hurl at myself, ok? Because I hate people like me ever so much (the goddamn lazy idiots).</p>

<p>Also, I'm a bit confused as to why you think breaking the law is responsible behavior. And what the difference between an "aid" and a "crutch" is supposed to be, when your primary reason seems to be that some people have more natural intelligence or focus and you deserve to be able to compensate in some way.</p>

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<p>I personally think ADD medicines in general are being overprescribed. I'm sure if I went to five different doctors at least two would recommend an ADD med for me even though I know I don't have ADD.</p>

<p>I also feel that ADD medicine is becoming like steroids in baseball. We all know it's bad but people do it anyway. They give people who are already good (like Barry Bonds, who was a good player even before 1998 when he allegedly went on 'roids--trust me, I saw him play daily in Pittsburgh in the early 1990s) an advantage they don't need.</p>

<p>Plus, can't an ADD med make someone who can already focus well focus too much? I've heard of people going on Ritalin for Aspberger's in an attempt to take the edge off but they just get even edgier. I'd say the same thing would work for other non-ADD patients, Aspberger's or not.</p>

<p>InquilineKea's second point also is something to consider. There are people with legit ADD cases out there. Do you really want to hurt someone who needs it? I've seen people with severe ADD and for them these meds make a lot of sense. For people who don't have ADD, I suggest you leave the meds alone.</p>

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Because those who chose not to break the law and take illigal drugs are put at a disadvantage. If you (general) are in a class that curves grades and take Adderol to do well, it could have a real negetive impact on those who chose to do things legally (think highly competitve pre-med classes).</p>

<p>If you can't get do the work/get the grade you want/whatever without resorting to drugs, maybe you arn't ready for the workload. (Note: this DOES NOT apply to people with legetimate ADHD problems. I'm talking about people who by the drugs illigally or lie to their doctors to get them, for the specific purpose of enhancing their ability to study and do well in school).

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<p>You're suffering from a classical flaw of Western reasoning.</p>

<p>It's binary logic.</p>

<p>It's the logic that "either you have ADD or you don't", and that "all who have ADD" should be treated the same and that "all who don't have ADD" should be treated the same. Only that not everyone who is diagnosed with ADD actually has ADD, and some people who don't have ADD aren't diagnosed. Not only that, but some doctors are extremely reluctant to prescribe Adderall (they're far more willing to prescribe bupropion or Strattera)</p>

<p>Moreover, there is a thing such as "having too low of an attention span" for a particular field. Someone may not be "ADD" enough for reading, but he may be "ADD" enough for theoretical math, even if he is bright enough for theoretical mathematics. He may genuinely enjoy math - and he wants to pursue it - and the only thing keeping him away from math is his attention span. By all means, why not give him the means to pursue the subject that he enjoys?</p>

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But you don't care at all about any of those reasons, as long as you get to get ahead, right? I wasn't aware that I was bigoted against myself...thanks for bring that to light. Thanks also for informing me that the reason I'm even posting this is because I've decided to find something else to do other than stare blankly at my work...and here, I thought it was because I superglued my butt to the chair by accident. After I'm done posting this message, I'll go sit and stare at a wall and think up insults to hurl at myself, ok? Because I hate people like me ever so much (the goddamn lazy idiots).

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<p>Hey, you're committing the same flaw as well. You may be distractible, but some people are more distractible than you are. Just because you can control your distractibility with willpower doesn't mean that all who are distractible can do the same. You might still be bigoted towards those who cannot get over their own problems just because they have less willpower than you</p>

<p>(this is a common problem in Western society - A may get over his problems and then A may assume that B can just get over B's problems just as easily as A can get over A's problems, only that it isn't such the case).</p>

<p>==

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Also, I'm a bit confused as to why you think breaking the law is responsible behavior

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<p>Yeah, that's when you interpret the law too literally. Do you think people cannot drink responsibly whenever they drink and are under age 21?</p>

<p>Responsible behavior is controlled behavior. It is knowing what you are doing, fully cognizant of the consequences of doing it excessively.</p>

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And what the difference between an "aid" and a "crutch" is supposed to be, when your primary reason seems to be that some people have more natural intelligence or focus and you deserve to be able to compensate in some way.

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<p>An aid: something to help with your work, not something you're completely dependent on.
A crutch: something you're completely dependent on for your work.</p>

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when your primary reason seems to be that some people have more natural intelligence or focus and you deserve to be able to compensate in some way.

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<p>That's just one reason. And those with less natural intelligence and focus can choose to compensate for their lack of such intelligence/focus if they so desire. Especially in fields (like theoretical mathematics) that demand higher attention spans.</p>

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<p>Oh, please. If you have such legitimate trouble concentrating that you absolutely need to use some sort of drug just to pass a test, you wouldn't have the concentration to sit at your computer and type out long responses to everyone. If you think you have a legitimate medical problem, go to a doctor and get diagnosed. If you've already been to 12 and they all said no, then maybe the problem is with your attitude of entitlement and not with your brain.</p>

<p>What about other factors? What about outgoingness, creativity, intelligence, even your parents' income? All these factors can affect what school you go to and how well you do when you're there. Why don't you demand compensation for them, too, if you're so interested in "fairness"? In fact, why don't we just mail everyone the same diploma at the age of 22, so no one will ever be discriminated against in any way for having or not having certain advantages? Surely that would be the fairest option?</p>

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<p>leads to new or abnormal thoughts...</p>

<p>sounds fun</p>

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Oh, please. If you have such legitimate trouble concentrating that you absolutely need to use some sort of drug just to pass a test, you wouldn't have the concentration to sit at your computer and type out long responses to everyone. If you think you have a legitimate medical problem, go to a doctor and get diagnosed. If you've already been to 12 and they all said no, then maybe the problem is with your attitude of entitlement and not with your brain.

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<p>As I said previously, one can have the attention span to write out such long posts without having the attention span to be comfortable with theoretical mathematics. Or any difficult subject. Many ADDers can write long posts - the stream-of-consciousness type of thought is not so uncommon. Moreover, ADDers can concentrate on reading that's simple and that doesn't require reasoning on the lines of synthesizing parts to the whole (this is where reading can become difficult). But when the reading's on an online forum, it's far simpler than having to synthesize parts to a whole.</p>

<p>The problem with going to more than one doctor is insurance coverage.</p>

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What about other factors? What about outgoingness, creativity, intelligence, even your parents' income? All these factors can affect what school you go to and how well you do when you're there. Why don't you demand compensation for them, too, if you're so interested in "fairness"? In fact, why don't we just mail everyone the same diploma at the age of 22, so no one will ever be discriminated against in any way for having or not having certain advantages? Surely that would be the fairest option?

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<p>Of course I realize that Adderall isn't going to make things fair. The decision to take Adderall is a purely individual decision. And frankly, if it helps in helping one learn theoretical mathematics, then why not?</p>

<p>Besides, I was only rebutting the argument that "taking Adderall is unfair/tantamount to cheating." My original argument was never that "taking Adderall will equalize things".</p>

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<p>I need to correct my logic.</p>

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<p>Cheating also damages the integrity of the purpose of tests. By this logic, both Adderall and cheating damage the integrity of the purpose of tests. Does this mean that Adderall = cheating? Not necessarily, unless you define cheating as a method to "damage the integrity of the purpose of tests". Perhaps this is the common connotation of cheating though.</p>

<p>Okay, that being said, I've defended the use of amphetamines in the way Erdos used them (as a study aid, not as a crutch just before tests). Does this mean that I defend their use just before tests? That people who use them just to ace a test (and don't care about retaining the knowledge) are henceforth guilty of cheating? Hmm...</p>

<p>That being said, those who use Adderall just to help themselves learn a subject for enrichment (irrespective of whether the subject is a school subject or not) have all my respect. Just that those who use it only to ace a test are in a more questionable position (even then, it's kind of hard to tell - since those who are most disadvantaged are the ones who benefit the most). Besides, people may take it partially to learn and partially to help them take a test.</p>

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<p>Are you trying to say that you only agree with the use of drugs for studying theoretical mathematics, and nothing else? Again I suppose that if it was a legitimate medical problem you could explain that to your doctor and get a small prescription. Or just study the subject on your own, away from the pressure of tests, if you're that desperately interested in it. But that's not really anyone's goal, is it? They just want to be able to stay up all night studying, without effort. I know plenty of people that keep themselves up by the use of various stimulants, and plenty more who may or may not be using anything but keep themselves up anyway...they don't have any problems with poor focus, they just apparently couldn't get everything done during the day for whatever reason. It's not "fair" that those of us who don't condone illegal drug use get looked down on by students and professors alike because we don't appear to spend every night working instead of sleeping, either. Life's not fair in general. You're just adding one more reason to the pile.</p>

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<p>Okay, now we're getting somewhere.</p>

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Are you trying to say that you only agree with the use of drugs for studying theoretical mathematics, and nothing else? Again I suppose that if it was a legitimate medical problem you could explain that to your doctor and get a small prescription. Or just study the subject on your own, away from the pressure of tests, if you're that desperately interested in it.

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<p>Not just theoretical mathematics - that was an example. The problem with that is that I may not qualify for all of the symptoms of ADD, but I nonetheless have trouble concentrating with respect to theoretical mathematics (or another highly abstract subject). Doctors generally don't consider that as a legitimate medical problem. They'd tell me to "switch majors". (I was told exactly that, and while I did experiment with other subjects, I hated how they were taught). Yeah, switch to a liberal arts major that I don't really enjoy and that would lead me nowhere in life. </p>

<p>They're also used to reduce sleep (like Erdos used them) - despite the inevitable crash afterwards. Modafinil probably would be more helpful in that case. Again, modafinil prescriptions are difficult to get as well <em>sigh</em>.</p>

<p>I'm trying the self-study path now (since I just can't keep up with lectures) but frankly, it's difficult to negotiate credit through self-study.</p>

<p>And then it could just be immature frontal lobes that would mature as I grow older (but then my fluid intelligence would decline). </p>

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They just want to be able to stay up all night studying, without effort. I know plenty of people that keep themselves up by the use of various stimulants, and plenty more who may or may not be using anything but keep themselves up anyway...they don't have any problems with poor focus, they just apparently couldn't get everything done during the day for whatever reason.

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<p>Ah yes, those types of people. I have no problem with them - considering that they're learning more efficiently with those study aids. If they're using the drugs as a crutch, then they're only harming themselves. But a lot of what you learn in college is useless later in life - so these drugs are a way to get through the course material in an easier way than others. Of course, some of them meet none of the criteria that I specify above - (a) some don't use the drugs to learn something they intend to keep - instead, they use the drugs to get through and (b) some students are fine with their attention spans. In that case, well, using the drugs is unfair.</p>

<p>Of course, study habits can be improvable for some through either willpower or mere time - but for others it's a major pain.</p>

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It's not "fair" that those of us who don't condone illegal drug use get looked down on by students and professors alike because we don't appear to spend every night working instead of sleeping, either.

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<p>Okay, I think that's a fair argument. It's really a huge fuzzy issue. Some of the students who do use the drugs illegally genuinely do have issues with attention span, some of them only want to use them as aids, and some of them use them to make their college lives easier (and are actually cheating). Some use them as a combination of all of them (which can be quite likely).</p>

<p>It's somewhat unfair to me too - since I'm isolated and am consequently unable to obtain them from anyone else. I really enjoy learning and would like to study more, especially before my fluid intelligence starts to decline (well, it probably already is).</p>

<p>Of course, few use it specifically to learn. Even I'd use it to make it easier for me to do well on tests (but I'm not one of those who values anything above academics)</p>

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<p>To be honest though, if you want to get the most of life, the responsible use of Adderall is certainly an option. Have fun in the day, and study with all-nighters. Unfair, yes. But well, that's why some people use Adderall. And they of course don't care about what others think of them</p>

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<p>How does Adderal even work? I would think b eing a chemical drug it has more negative side effects to studying - does it give you superhuman memory during a test??</p>

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<p>I have easy access to adderal, but have never taken it. I'm thinking about using it for a paper I'd like to get done before I run into finals. I estimate that it'll take me about 10 hours to research and write and I probably have that much free time tomorrow. But I also know that even at my most dedicated, I've never spent more than 2-3 hours on one thing in a day. Maybe with adderal I'll be able to get the paper out of the way and not have so many things hanging over my head for the remainder of the week.</p>

<p>The stuff will screw up your health if you do it regularly, though. Once a week is too much.</p>