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<p>I looked at all the admission statistics of top 50 Universities and LACs and they all report the top 10%, so that maybe what’s important.
But for Yale, I think it takes the top 1% of a very large competitive public high school that does not rank.</p>
<p>Smithie, you missed that she doesn’t need to give up the band. She can participate without taking it for credit. Problem solved.</p>
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<p>Problem solved unless she wants to take advantage of musical opportunities that require enrollment in a school instrumental music course. The obvious example is auditioning for all-state honors band, as I mentioned earlier, but there are others as well. Enrollment may be required for participation in solo festivals, for example, or for membership in community youth orchestras.</p>
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<p>Yes, and 40% of the class has hooks. You do the math. </p>
<p>Penn has an especially large number of students from private schools which do not rank at all so the stat reflects mostly kids that go to typical public schools. If the OPs DD goes to Andover or Bronxville, being number 7 is still great. But having worked in admissions there, trust me, rank matters a lot.</p>
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<p>Technically, it’s impossible to do the math unless you know what percent of the hooked were also Val or Sal. I suspect at least a number of legacies were at the top of their high school class. I would need a Venn diagram. ;)</p>
<p>The admission rank is determinded after junoir year, but Val and Sal are after senior. It that is right, which one does U Penn use for their stats?</p>
<p>In our school I think it’s more like the top 2 or 3% who get into the HYPMC group. However the top 10% get into great colleges.</p>
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<p>Again, according to the OP she would be OFFICIALLY ENROLLED in the class, but not taking it for credit. So there would not appear to be a problem.</p>
<p>BTW, I know that students have to be sponsored for all-state through a school–although they do not in fact have to be enrolled in music classes there–but I have NEVER heard of a regional youth symphony that gives a damn what the student’s school affiliation might be, other than to list it in the program.</p>
<p>Re all-state and other school-related regional groups: home schooled kids regularly participate by signing up through their local HS, without taking a class at the HS. Hardly any HSs in my state have orchestras or any programs for strings at all, yet students who play non-band instruments do indeed audition for and go to the all-state orchestra festival, even though they are not taking a music class at their HS.</p>
<p>Now, it may be that if there IS an ensemble for you at your HS you do have to be in it, but that would not apply to the OP’s kid in any case, because even though not taking the class for academic credit she would still be enrolled in the ensemble.</p>
<p>In my S’ school, a GT course and an AP course are weighted the same (5.0). I think the AP course is a lot harder. There should be other factors besides rank based on W GPA. If not, the top colleges are not smart at all which would cause their future in the long run (at least I hope).</p>
<p>dragonboy, at our HS grades aren’t weighted at all. Ostensibly they don’t rank, but they do declare a val and sal and they do release information about GPA distribution that makes estimating rank possible. </p>
<p>Talk about unfair…yes, schools do look at the course rigor and so forth. But it definitely handicaps a lot of kids.</p>
<p>Consolation, at my daughter’s high school, there was an informal after-school section of the band for those students who wanted to be band members but could not take the regular band class because of scheduling conflicts. It was called “8th period band” (the school has a 7 period day).</p>
<p>Our school’s band teacher thought that the “8th period band” students were all-state eligible. He was wrong. Two of them qualified at the auditions, but they were not allowed to participate and were replaced by alternates. (One would have been my daughter’s roommate at all-state, so we were very aware of the situation.)</p>
<p>If the OP’s daughter is not taking band for credit, her eligibility for all-state may be questionable. If she is interested in this opportunity, her band teacher may need to check with the all-state authorities about whether students who are not taking the class for credit are all-state eligible.</p>
<p>Some states are very strict about this sort of thing. In our state, there are even eligibility problems for students from block-scheduled high schools who only have band (or orchestra) in their schedules during one of the two semesters.</p>
<p>In our area, there are also community youth orchestras that require enrollment in a school instrumental music course for participation, although they do occasionally make exceptions for students with schedule conflicts that prevent them from taking the school music course in a particular semester.</p>
<p>Academics always come first.</p>
<p>monkyle: Your statement is true ONLY at Cal Tech from what I have heard.</p>
<p>Academics come first – in that except in extraordinary cases, good ECs will not make up for inferior academics.</p>
<p>However, the OP’s daughter is not considering changing her academic program. She’s considering tweaking her status in band for the purpose of maximizing class rank. The quality of her academic program will not be affected by her choice.</p>
<p>FWIW - Our state requires band students auditioning for district/state honors bands to be enrolled in a band class for one credit. It explicitly states both criteria.</p>
<p>From everything I’ve read on CC, the admission’s process is not a science. You could drive yourself crazy second-guessing every decision you have made with your child when you don’t get in that one “dream school”. There is no formula - (unless of course, your child cures cancer) :)</p>
<p>My D had a similar situation. Color Guard. Went to summer band camp (2 weeks at the HS, just before school starts) and later discovered that it was for credit! Plus, had to be enrolled in a color guard class to be in marching band. BUT, there was no color guard class offered, so they were all put in an extra period class that showed on their transcripts, but did not exist. So, between the band camps and extra (phantom) classes, her ranking slid to about 15 (out of 800), even with UW 4.0. She and a couple of band kids were thought of as the top of their class, but none were val. </p>
<p>D realized she was giving up rank for the EC she loved. Also wanted Yale, but did not get in (our HS has never had an acceptance). Loves where she is now.</p>
<p>Our HS grades on a 4.0 system with 5.0 weighted. Because of a number of unweighted required courses (PE x 3, Health, Practical Arts, etc.) it is impossible to graduate with a 5.0. One of my son’s passions is music, which is unweighted at his school. He could have taken some of his unweighted courses P/F, but he felt that it would somehow cheapen his record. As a result, he graduated with a 4.0 UWGPA and a 4.7 WGPA and was about 25/400 in his class.</p>
<p>I agree with Marian that taking Band for credit is probably the better option, certainly so if it affects either her transcipt or eligibility for outside or State band. I think that I disagree however that “passion” is graded on a near Yo Yo Ma standard. I personally think that it is something less and have used “conservatory eligible” as my benchmark.</p>
<p>My son also considered Yale as one of his top choices, primarily because he is interested in a cappella choirs (as well as classical music). Sadly, though he was a tenor (Consolation) he was denied SCEA at Yale. Is is however a <em>very</em> happy tenor at Harvard.</p>
<p>Want to thank you for all your thought, suggestions and information. I shared all the information with my dd, also work with school try to find the best solution. Once agian, thank you for all your input, lOVE CC parents. Will keep you updted.</p>
<p>OP, definitely check on the credit/no credit status thing re All-state eligibility. Of course, your D may not get into all-State anyway–it really depends on so many things!</p>
<p>Hat, perhaps your S didn’t get into Yale because they had already accepted my friend’s S the Tenor–and who knows how many others-- SCEA! 
(Can one ever have too many tenors? Does one ever have too many altos? 
) I’m glad he’s happy at H.</p>