What is the biggest difference between Amherst and Williams?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
21

<p>mistofolis- I hope you will have a chance to visit before making a decision, whether that's next spring after you've been admitted to both, or sooner. There are some differences that may only appear in an in person visit. </p>

<p>My S fully expected to prefer Amherst over Williams for a number of reasons prior to visiting, and I expected him to also. He liked the 5-college consortium and especially the idea of two women's colleges nearby. Upon visiting and talking to people at Amherst, he felt the consortium would be less of a draw for him than he had orginally thought it would be. The tourguide at Amherst said it was kind of a pain to take the bus to the other campuses, even though it was free. I know people who've gone to Amherst and have taken full advantage of the consortium and found it a really valuable addition to the experience, but my S felt that the logistics (like added complications in scheduling classes) might discourage him from taking advantage of it based on what the tourguide said. You will know yourself and how likely you'd be to take advantage of the consortium.</p>

<p>I think the choice is largely a matter of personal preference, and a lot of it boils down to a general "feel" of the campus and the school, something that is hard to capture through statistics and basic information about the schools.</p>

22

<p>Williams sends more kids to grad school in English and has a strong theater program with a summer theater lab attached to the Williamstown Summer Theater Festival, a summer theater featuring professional and name actors.</p>

<p>That said, the consortium makes Amherst's programs outstanding as well.</p>

<p>My S chose Williams over Amherst purely on gut instinct. He liked the insularity -- he wanted that intense bonding experience and knew he wouldn't miss "civilization" as momrath accurately called it.</p>

<p>He is also arts oriented and a music major and Williams offered a much better program for a composer/string players/singer.</p>

<p>That said, the consortium does offer incredible opportunities. However, he is kind of a lazy slacker boy and probably wouldn't use to opportunities, and it is a bit time consuming for someone who has to practice every day and play in ensembles in addition to academic work.</p>

<p>This are very personal choices.</p>

<p>I am sure that had he landed at Swat, Amherst or a host of other LAC's he would have been happy and successful. However, Williams fit him like the proverbial glove.</p>

<p>Not an athlete -- just a kid who wanted a very tight community. He is already hoping to be a JA.</p>

<p>However, I can imagine many students preferring Swat or Amherst or Pomona or Wesleyan or Midd or Vassar. You get the idea.</p>

<p>My D preferred Barnard because she wanted a LAC and she wanted NYC. Good thing she is a girl!!!!</p>

23

<p>
[quote]
Amherst does not live in the shadow of UMass...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Come on...</p>

<p>Fall 2007 Enrollment:</p>

<p>Amherst College 1,683
UMass Amherst 25,873</p>

<p>It requires a willful suspension of disbelief to say that UMass doesn't cast a long shadow over a town with a population of 35,000. That's like saying that Williamstown isn't really remote and mountainous.</p>

24

<p>mythmom:</p>

<p>Good explanation. Really, picking a liberal arts college is a two-step process:</p>

<p>a) First, you have to select a liberal arts college over a larger school. I strongly recommend considering a liberal arts college, but it's fair to say that their are pluses and minuses to all sizes.</p>

<p>b) Once, you you've decided on an LAC, you'll probably be pretty happy at quite a few in any given range. However, there are signficant differences. Students should, IMO, literally sit down with pencil and paper and list what they are looking for in an ideal college: location, social scene, campus culture, dorm organization (neighborhoods? freshmen mixed with upperclass? racial theme housing?), etc. etc. Start trying to pin down what you are looking for, then you can explore the options in a range of colleges to find the best match. </p>

<p>For any given student, it could be Williams. It could be Amherst. It could be Swarthmore. It could be Pomona. It could be Wellesley. It could be Carleton. It could be Davidson. And every one of those decisions could be perfect for an individual student and wrong for another. It just all depends on how things are prioritized on that pad of paper. For example, if an annual low temp of 50 degrees is a priority, then there's no way around it. Williams is an unacceptable choice and Pomona looks like a winner. The individiual preferences drive the decision-making.</p>

25

<p>misto, The admissions rates for internationals is very low at both Amherst and Williams. That isn't to say that you won't be successful -- Thailand is a good start -- but statistically the chance is low. You should definitely apply to both, plus some less selectives. </p>

<p>You should also focus on the best way to present yourself in your application. Neither Williams nor Amherst interviews so what you send is all they will know about you. Essays and recommendations are critical. Think about what your life experience would offer to the campus community and make sure that gets communicated, not directly but by inference. </p>

<p>If you are seriously involved in theater you should put together a performance tape and a theater package. Small LACs welcome extensive backup materials (within reason) so don't hesitate to show case your accomplishments.</p>

26

<p>interesteddad, I don't think you have spent a lot of time in Amherst, because if you had you would absolutely see how wrong you are...but what is difficult to understand? UMass just doesn't have a big presence in the town. Amherst is located near the town center, UMass is on the outskirts of the other side. It in no way negatively impacts the Amherst experience, but can be an asset (bringing in good food, etc.)</p>

27

<p>sadly i won't be able to go visit them before / after applying. it is just too expensive for my family to do so.
Im actually Korean so the chances of me getting in is even lower. I am aware of all those overachieving asian (particularly Korean) kids that I need to distingish myself from.
I am planning to apply to many more LACs with lower ranking and perhaps a more willing pocket to dish out money. </p>

<p>really, thanks for all your contributions! although it won't make up for the visit, i think this is a valuable way of learning!</p>

28

<p>Dad2: I think there are wonderful reasons to choose Swat over Williams: the fabled academic rigor, its Quaker heritage, its political engagement, its campus, and its proximity to Philla.</p>

<p>However, stereotyping the Williams students are less engaged or interesting is not accurate and not a good reason to choose Swat.</p>

<p>None of the kids S knows fit the stereotype you invoke: they are philosophy, English, history, bio, and physics majors. A few are economics majors and they are pairing their major with a concentration in environmental studies. </p>

<p>Williams has the typical LAC population. Okay, I'll give you the athletic prowess of 1/3 of the student population according to interesteddad's figures. </p>

<p>But the kids are quirky. They do theater, music, art, outdoorsy things. I haven't met one kid whose main goal is getting into I-banking and becoming rich. I'm sure there are some, but that is NOT the side of them they show, nor does the adcom select for those kind of kids.</p>

<p>And there are many reasons to choose Williams over Swat. S's good friend just did.</p>

<p>If Swat is number one on the Boalt scale for academic rigor (it is), Williams is number two (it is.) One and two for hardest schools in the US to get an A at -- and UofC is further down on the list as are all the Ivies. Not so much of a difference there.</p>

<p>Campus? S preferred Williams. I know many would prefer Swat.</p>

<p>Political engagement? S is political, very left leaning, but in a quiet, quiet way. Williams suits his personality.</p>

<p>Williams music department is three times the size of Swat's. Okay. Philla. and consortium gives more opportunities. No doubt. S is too lazy to use them so he wanted everything all in one place.</p>

<p>Philla.: I'll give you that. It's great.</p>

<p>Swat is such a wonderful place it is not necessary to mischaracterize another school to burnish its sheen. It is shinier without doing that.</p>

<p>When I was in high school I wanted to go to Swat. Life intervened and had other ideas. My kids weren't interested for whatever reasons they had.</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
UMass just doesn't have a big presence in the town.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Amherst, MA population 35,000
UMass Amherst enrollment 25,873</p>

30

<p>mythmom: no arguments with your insights.</p>

31

<p>I know the statistics, what is your point? I also know many, many, many people who grew up in Amherst, and I go to school there. UMass is very isolated from the town, and does not cast a shadow on Amherst. You have a very strong opinion about a town which you don't seem to have even visited.</p>

32

<p>I'm also an Amherst student and I agree with unregistered. As much as it might look like it on paper, UMass does not dominate the town. Probably the biggest effect that UMAss has is to provide enough business to keep Antonio's open until 2am on weekends, which is an unambiguously positive impact.</p>

33

<p>
[quote]
I know the statistics, what is your point?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The statistics speak for themselves concerning the impact of UMass on the town of Amherst, MA. Suffice to say that Amherst College is not the big dog in town.</p>

34

<p>Catfish is exactly correct. UMass gives us good cheap restaurants, but is located far out of town and is not a major presence for Amherst students or the locals. I can't imagine the audacity you have to speak so firmly about a town that you know nothing about.</p>

35

<p>First, the odds of getting into both are not all that great for anyone. I'd first apply to both and, If you do, then I'd do whatever possible (I realize it is tough as an international, but this is the next four years of your life) to visit both schools because most people get a strong feelings in their gut after doing so. I had Amherst number one before visits, and I far preferred Williams, and my cousin (currently an Amherst student) had the reverse experience, and we both ended up making the right choice. </p>

<p>There are actually a higher percentage of "tipped" or high-profile athletes at Amherst, the kind of athletes who contribute to a purported "athletic culture," than at Williams. Williams has a marginally higher number of varsity athletes than Amherst, but that is because of ENORMOUS crew, cross country, track and field, and swimming and diving rosters, and I don't think anyone associates these sports with any cultural issues. As a percentage of campus, Amherst has more tipped athletes, more football / hockey / lacrosse players, etc. That being said, my sense upon many visits to the two schools over the years is that a substantially higher percentage of non-varsity Williams folks are outdoorsmen / women or casual athletes (hiking, casual running, frisbee, pick-up hoops) etc. than you'll find among non-varsity athletes at Amherst. Amherst, as you might expect, attracts a marginally mroe cosmopolitan / preppy / artsy type of student, while Williams gets more of the sporty / outdoorsy types, but again, the difference is very, very marginal and I doubt anyone could tell 10 amherst and williams students apart at first glance, save for their college gear. </p>

<p>Indeed, I really believe no two schools in the country attract a more similar student body, or offer a more similar experience. That being said, there are some distinct differences. We've already talked about the five college consortium and the differences in towns. The campuses have a slightly different feel -- Amherst is more the quintessenial quad-heavy charming, insular-feeling New England school, feels a little more closed, while Williams is more of a bunch of random buildings (including a few very loosely-defined quads) plopped down in the middle of the mountains, feels more open and less planned (or less coherent, depending on how you look at it) somehow. </p>

<p>Winter Study is a big difference -- you'll be on campus for all or nearly all four Januaries at Williams, most people love the experience, but some would rather the Amherst inter-term which for most of the student body ends up being a six week break (and as an international, that may be a factor). I much preferred the Williams model, but that is a matter of personal choice. </p>

<p>The junior year has some different options -- Williams has the unique Junior Advisor system (a little different than RA's) as well as the Oxford program and (at least for now) Williams in New York and Williams Mystic, in total those programs involved 15-20 percent of the student body, I am sure Amherst has its own unique junior year opportunities. </p>

<p>Williams has tutorials and VERY loose distribution requirements, Amherst has no tutorials and no requirements at all other than major requirements. </p>

<p>Amherst has ethnic / language theme housing available, Williams does not. </p>

<p>One edge I would say for Williams is in facilities: Amherst has lots of gorgeous new dorms, but other than that, Williams has a huge edge in modern facilities -- the school has built hundreds of millions of dollars worth of new science center, theater (which is broadway caliber, incredible), classroom / office buildings, studio art building, and two student centers over the last decade. By 2011, a brand new, state of the art library will also be completed. Amherst has upgraded a lot of its dorms (as has Williams) but has not been on anything resembling that sort of building binge. As a result, when you look at student center, or science center, or theater, or other student spaces, the difference is pretty stark. That being said, I don't think that the spaces (other than the theater, if you are a prospective theater major) have that dramatic an impact on your experience -- both have basically state of the art facilities. Far more important are the students who occupy those spaces, which is why you should, if at all possible, try to visit and meet as many current frosh / other prospectives as possbile ....</p>

36

<p>williams offers a very tight knit community and the entry system also fosters this ideal. there is always a lot going on at williams as i saw on my visit there.</p>

37

<p>I think the last post was pretty good. I'll add that Amherst does not have tutorials, but special topics courses of your choice are a good possibility. I preferred Amherst's interterm options and would probably add that Amherst students can participate in Mystic or a slew of other study away opportunities.</p>

<p>The two were absolutely my two favorite schools and I know I would have been happy at Williams. Amherst has better (amazing) food options nearby but the dining hall is worse. Such little differences.</p>

38

<p>"The same type of student that would pick S instead of Williams or Amherst would pick UPenn over Harvard or Yale."</p>

<p>sarcasm...</p>

<p>"A form of verbal irony, expressing sneering, personal disapproval in the guise of praise. (Oddly enough, sarcastic remarks are often used between friends, perhaps as a somewhat perverse demonstration of the strength of the bond--only a good friend could say this without hurting the other's feelings..."</p>

<p>You would not choose S over A or W. And you would not choose UPenn over H or Y. I don't see S and W or A as comparable. S is a great academic school but that's the limit. W and A are enviroments, biospheres of a sort, as Shrek says, like onions.</p>

39

<p>unregistered: Good for you, and I support your defense of your town and school.</p>

<p>Yes, it's fun for Williams and Amherst students to pursue their little rivalry, a lot of fun, but at the end of the day both are wonderful schools.</p>

<p>We went to info sessions for both schools on the same day. Amherst made note of Williams's being offered the same day (big weekend), and Williams did not, but it was all in good fun.</p>

<p>As we watched both sessions I knew in my gut that my boy would prefer Williams, and if it were me, I would prefer Amherst, or so I thought.</p>

<p>That said, my DS applied to both, and had he not been accepted to Williams he would have happily attended Amherst I'm sure, even though he could also have chosen UofC and Brown. He wanted the LAC experience.</p>

<p>Both schools offer stellar experiences as do a host of other LAC's and each has its passionate adherents: The women's colleges, Wesleyan, Vassar, Bowdoin, Colby, Bates, Colgate, Pomona, Grinnell, Reed, Hamilton, Carleton, and many others offer experiences that are very similar.</p>

<p>And how could I forget Haverford and Swarthmore, two fabulous options as well.</p>

<p>If I forget your school and you are reading this, my apologies.</p>

<p>Now all that said, Amherst students, I am not supposed to be nice to you, orders of DS. (All in good fun and I said. He's not crazy.)</p>

40

<p>I always appreciate your posts, mythmom. I don't really even see my last few posts as a defense of the town of Amherst, though (or the school). I think there are plenty of valid criticisms of both the town and the school...but this particular one is just completely false. And yeah, I am easily irritable and always have problems with people being so firm about things they know nothing about. Maybe I shouldn't be so cranky, I know!</p>