<p>I think you're very sweet.</p>
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I always appreciate your posts, mythmom. I don't really even see my last few posts as a defense of the town of Amherst, though (or the school). I think there are plenty of valid criticisms of both the town and the school...but this particular one is just completely false.
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<p>Yeah, but what you are missing is that being in the shadow of UMass is a POSITIVE for Amherst relative to Williams. It means that like other college towns, you get the benefit of the major concerts and all the other amenities that come with a student population of 25,000.</p>
<p>And, you Jeffies have some kind of strange sense of distance. UMass is exactly three-quarters of a mile from town center. That's hardly "way outside of town" unless your definition of town stops and starts with Amherst's campus.</p>
<p>It is simply absurd to say that a university of 25,000 doesn't dominate the college town where it is located.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, I think Jeffs do have a little bit of a warped sense of distance. There's a couple of dorms a few blocks off campus towards town (called "the hill"), which are very nice by any measure. They once were frat houses but were taken over by the college when frats were eliminated. They used to be all mid-sized doubles, but have been converted to giant singles. Some of the rooms have multiple closets and even fireplaces. All this is only a 7 minute walk from campus, and most people don't want to live there because they are "too far away". Distorted conceptions of distance are a price you pay for going to a small school.</p>
<p>Also, Ephman summarized things pretty well. Listen to him.</p>
<p>Great post by Ephman.</p>
<p>Crap I am having computer issues and it looks like I accidentally posted thirty trillion times and they were all deleted. Well anyways, perhaps our senses of distance are skewed by the fact that Amherst is located right next to the town common at the center of town, while UMass is far enough that Hadley is usually a more accessible spot for UMass students. I am glad that UMass is there; it gives us damned good, cheap food options, and some great concerts, speakers, and events. Amherst is not overwhelmed by it in any real way that I can perceive, though.</p>
<p>Biggest difference: Amherst students are hotter.</p>
<p>You have to have visited Amherst to understand that UMass does not dominate the town in any way relevant or detrimental to an Amherst College student. </p>
<p>While it is true the campus centers are w/i walking distance of each other, you can't see UMass from Amherst College unless you are in the top floors of some of the bigger Amherst College buildings. Amherst College feels much more integrated with the town than does UMass. </p>
<p>When I was looking at colleges for my kids, I thought the presence of UMass was a real benefit for Amherst students. While there is not a lot of social interaction, so far as I can tell, the Amherst College students do benefit from the concerts that come to the Mullins Center and they do benefit from the larger town that exists because of UMass. </p>
<p>In looking at the Williams/Amherst pros/cons, I thought UMass was an Amherst pro, but I guess people can differ.</p>
<p>When my child was choosing between Amherst and Williams we did not think that UMass in any way detracted from the quality of the Amherst experience. There are a number of Boston colleges that are not as good as others nearby but that does not seem to have a negative impact. UMass is where it is and you can go or not as you choose. I don't think it would be fair to condemn Swarthmore for its 11 mile proximity to the murder capital of the US or to say you couldn't get a quality education there due to the lingering focus on the "Inner Light". No place is perfect. Amherst is an incredible school (almost as good as Williams lol).</p>
<p>The "college town" atmosphere is much stronger in Amherst (and in nearby Northampton) than it is in Williamstown. Between the 5 Colleges, the Amherst area has one of the largest concentrations of college students in the northeast. </p>
<p>Williamstown, on the other hand, may well be the smallest "college town" in the country (maybe "college village" or "college hamlet" might be more accurate). So there are more off-campus options at Amherst. </p>
<p>Another social difference is that the 5-College community has a significant gender imbalance, with more women than men, especially at the three top-rated liberal arts colleges. Between Amherst, Smith, and Mt Holyoke, the ratio is something like 6:1. So dating opportunities may be unusually good or unusually poor, depending on your gender and orientation. At Williams, men and women are on a more or less equal footing from a social standpoint.</p>
<p>Boy, the Lord Jeffs sure are touchy about their big brother ZooMASS across town. "Oh no...a unversity of 25,000 students has no impact whatsoever on a town of 35,000...." </p>
<p>OK. I'm sure that Town Meeting in Amherst, MA completely ignores UMass on issues of employement, schools, commerce, and so forth.</p>
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Boy, the Lord Jeffs sure are touchy about their big brother ZooMASS across town.
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People routinely confuse Amherst College with UMass-Amherst. The Jeffs resent this, and it makes them touchy.</p>
<p>In fairness, it must be admitted that you can torment students and alumni at other LACs too, by accidentally (or deliberately) confusing Williams College and the College of William and Mary, or Swarthmore College and Skidmore College, or Wesleyan University and any other "Wesleyan" school, or Pomona College and Cal Poly Pomona, etc. etc.</p>
<p>Or Annhurst and Amherst, Cornell College and Cornell U., Sanford and Stanford...</p>
<p>Sorry: that's "Samford"</p>
<p>Who is touchy? The consensus seems to be that sharing the town w/ UMass is a positive for Amherst College</p>
<p>Other than making snarky comments about UMass ("ZooMass", "mediocre state university"), you haven't said why it isn't.</p>
<p>True enough, it used to drive me crazy when people would assume that my alma mater, Middlebury College, was in CT. (There is a Middlebury CT with a big exit sign on I-91)</p>
<p>And U. Mass. probably does help make Amherst's name better known. I've often noticed that people recognize it, but draw a blank about many of its peer institutions.</p>
<p>Ya'll need to go back and read what I wrote. IMO, being in the same college town as ZooMass (which IS a mediocre state university by any measure) is probably the thing that most differentiates Amherst from Williams.</p>
<p>Note, that immediately before that sentence, I wrote that I felt Williams' isolation was one of only two negatives (of any consequence) I could enumerate about my undergrad experience there.</p>
<p>How writing that Amherst benefits from its 5-college location is "offending" Amherst is beyond me. If anything, I might have offended students at ZooMass, but they all know it's a pretty mediocre place. That's not exactly a secret to anyone from Massachusetts.</p>
<p>Here's how USNEWS ranks the public universities. Mediocre might be a bit generous:</p>
<p>
**Top Public National Universities**</p>
<p>1 University of California–Berkeley<br>
2 University of Virginia<br>
3 University of California–Los Angeles<br>
3 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor<br>
5 University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill<br>
6 College of William and Mary (VA)
7 Georgia Institute of Technology<br>
8 University of California–San Diego<br>
8 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign<br>
8 University of Wisconsin–Madison<br>
11 University of California–Davis<br>
11 University of Washington<br>
13 University of California–Irvine<br>
13 University of California–Santa Barbara<br>
13 University of Texas–Austin<br>
16 Pennsylvania State University–University Park<br>
17 University of Florida<br>
18 University of Maryland–College Park<br>
19 Ohio State University–Columbus<br>
20 Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey–New Brunswick (NJ)
20 University of Georgia<br>
20 University of Pittsburgh<br>
23 Texas A&M University–College Station<br>
24 Purdue University–West Lafayette (IN)
24 University of Connecticut<br>
24 University of Iowa<br>
27 Clemson University (SC)
27 Miami University–Oxford (OH)
29 Michigan State University<br>
29 University of Delaware<br>
29 University of Minnesota–Twin Cities<br>
29 Virginia Tech<br>
33 Colorado School of Mines<br>
33 Indiana University–Bloomington<br>
35 University of California–Santa Cruz<br>
35 University of Colorado–Boulder<br>
37 SUNY–Binghamton<br>
38 Iowa State University<br>
38 North Carolina State University–Raleigh<br>
38 SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry<br>
38 University of Kansas<br>
42 University of Alabama<br>
42 University of Missouri–Columbia<br>
42 University of Nebraska–Lincoln<br>
45 Auburn University (AL)
45 SUNY–Stony Brook<br>
45 University of Arizona<br>
45 University of California–Riverside<br>
**45 University of Massachusetts–Amherst **
45 University of Tennessee<br>
45 University of Vermont<br>
52 University of New Hampshire<br>
52 University of Oklahoma<br>
54 Florida State University<br>
54 Ohio University<br>
54 University of Oregon<br>
54 University of South Carolina–Columbia<br>
58 University at Buffalo–SUNY<br>
58 University of Missouri–Rolla<br>
58 Washington State University<br>
61 University of Kentucky<br>
62 Arizona State University<br>
62 Colorado State University<br>
62 Kansas State University<br>
62 Michigan Technological University<br>
62 New Jersey Institute of Technology<br>
62 University of Arkansas
</p>
<p>I just finished my first year at Hampshire and I did not feel that UMass dominated the town of Amherst at all. If anything the presence of Amherst feels greater because, as someone else said, it is literally IN the town, which UMass is not. Really in both Amherst and Northampton you see many students from all of the colleges. I think it is definitely a plus for all of the other colleges to have UMass there if only because it brings many things to the town being such a big university, things like lectures and bands that come through there. I also have a good friend at Amherst who is an artist and uses many of the UMass resources and materials because they are so much greater than any small LAC can provide. I am sure that artists aren't the only ones who have found the big U resources to be a plus.</p>
<p>Exactly, Grace!
Many people who have never heard of Williams say that they know Amherst.
Then I usually talk to them that Amherst is only #2, and #1 is Williams.
Moreover, Middlebury will be a better school than Amherst in a day or two.
(sorry unregistered!!!)
I am not sure, however, whether the fact that Amherst is better known than Willams is related to Umass or not.</p>
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Amherst is only #2, and #1 is Williams.
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<p>Yeah, just like how Princeton is #1 and Harvard is #2.</p>
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Moreover, Middlebury will be a better school than Amherst in a day or two.
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<p>In about a decade, Middlebury will be #1.</p>
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I am not sure, however, whether the fact that Amherst is better known than Willams is related to Umass or not.
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<p>Just as Harvard is recognized and acknowledged as #1, even though it clearly isn't, Amherst has been traditionally regarded as #1.</p>
<p>I don't want to argue, both Amherst and Williams are excellent schools.</p>