<p>I've heard from some people that it's Orgo Chem, and from others it's Biology.
What are your opinions?</p>
<p>There’s no one answer to this.</p>
<p>The hardest class for you might be biology if you have a terrible memory.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you prefer to memorize rather than think, you might have trouble with both physics and ochem.</p>
<p>The hardest class for you might be physics if you are bad with quantitative science topics, math, rearranging equations and solving things symbolically, and seeing the nuances of rather precise concepts and how they apply to more complex problems.</p>
<p>The hardest class for you might be ochem if you can’t master the type of thinking required to be great in organic chemistry, which includes visualizing 3d structures and picking up on patterns in mechanisms.</p>
<p>They all have their own challenges. If you take a bunch more science courses beyond the prerequisites, however, it can be kind of fun to start seeing the different traits and skills which are useful to succeed in each of the subjects. The way in which an analytical chemist and a molecular biologist work is quite different.</p>
<p>My son would say that OChem II required the most time. He only worked 2 hours per week at his part-time job that semester because he wanted to devote as much time as he could to that class.</p>
<p>In terms of memory, I have no problem. But I don’t really like chemistry or physics.
And I’ve heard that Orgo Chem is extremely hard, harder than Gen Chem or Physics.</p>
<p>Why do you dislike chemistry and physics?</p>
<p>Organic is hard overall, but there are ways to mitigate this. Trying to understand as much as possible instead of memorizing is the biggest. Using the “Organic Chemistry as a Second Language” books (google it) to supplement your textbook can help a lot. There is no substitute for memorizing certain things but trying to rely on memorization alone will make ochem feel like your worst nightmare.</p>
<p>First semester organic is hard because there are new concepts which aren’t really like anything you’ve seen in science classes before. Stereochemistry requires some skill in visualization and it can take a while to learn to “see” things. There are many concepts which are extremely precise but aren’t defined as clearly as other precise concepts that you’ve learned before (it’s not like there are always simple rules to memorize).</p>
<p>Second semester organic (carbonyl chemistry) is in my opinion a lot more fun because if you get good at it, you can see reactions that you’ve never seen before and do a pretty good job of predicting the mechanisms. But at the same time, it is a challenge to try and take a vast volume of information and see the patterns and trends in it.</p>
<p>For both classes, having an awesome professor can help a lot. Probably more than in any other subject.</p>
<p>My D would say Freshman English composition. By a substantial margin. Because she hated it. And then Physics…because she hated it. She hated these classes in High School. She hated them again in college. Anybody want to guess what classes produced her lowest college grades? lol</p>
<p>For me its probably gen chem. I am doing a lot better in Orgo than I am in gen chem. I hated gen chem in high school and I hated it in college.</p>
<p>So I guess it depends on the person.
And I dislike Chem and Physics because of the deep thinking required. I’m actually really good at Chem (straight A’s in AP Chem), but I still don’t like it. I’m alright at Physics; I sort of had some trouble with it in High School. For that reason I don’t like Calc either, but I find it way easier than Physics.</p>
<p>It is different from school to school. It is great to have weed out class your first semester. Less time wasted. D’s UG program was designed this way. People who could not work did not survive first Bio (Honors with most of kids in class being top students in HS with top grades in their AP Bio). However, Bio never got easier. Chem. was very easy, Orgo was hard. You could get an “A” in any class, but work load varied from class to class.</p>
<p>personally, i thought electromagnetism (physics 2) took a lot of time. genetics was also hard. ochem 2 definitely wasn’t a walk in the park either.</p>
<p>Which class is usually the Weed-out class? Or does it differ from school-to-school?</p>
<p>^yes, it is different from school to school. Ask current pre-meds at school that you consider, they will know.</p>
<p>It’s different student to student, honestly.</p>
<p>My thoughts exactly.</p>
<p>I think all the pre-med pre-reqs are weeder classes…it’s just that for some kids, the earlier pre-reqs weed them out…and for other kids, the later pre-reqs weed them out.</p>
<p>I have found something worrisome about the school my S is going. A typical upper level science class grade average is about 0.5 lower than the average GPA of all students in the class. Is that a major grade deflation or is it typical?</p>
<p>It could just be that the class is much harder. The class is an Upper-level one. Upper-level classes tend to be harder, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all. If it was an easier class, than you could probably say it’s grade-deflation.</p>
<p>ace550, Although I do not know the answer to your question, I am surised by the discrepancy is as large as 0.5.</p>
<p>However, it is well-known that the grades given by many science professors at many schools tend to be lower. It is likely because of this, I once read from school’s newspaper at DS’s school that many premeds left the science as soon as they had completed the prereqs. (and these students may cherry-pick some “softer” (in term of grading) upper division science classes, essentially to hide the fact that they really do not like science at all because of the grading.)</p>
<p>Re: Cherry-pick upper-division science classes – One interviewer at a medical school raised a question about why DS took any class from the evolution/ecology side of the biology department – he was a molecular biology major. He took a grand total of two classes from that side of biology – one is required as long as the student does not have an AP biology before; He took the other because he thinks the professor is a well-known expert in that particular field and a very good professor (He actually enjoyed that elective very much.) Still, it appears an interviewer noticed he had taken some science classes that are not relevant to his interests in medicine. (DS did say, after he had taken that class, that the whole atmosphere in that class is different from all other science classes he had taken. Reason? All other science classes are full of neurotic premeds whose interests are more in “will this be in the test?” Hanging out with so many of these students is really unpleasant, but you can not avoid it especially you are a biology major premed. This may be a downside of majoring in biology, IMO.</p>
<p>mcat2 and Shaggy007,</p>
<p>It looks like that my worry is well founded. </p>
<p>Out of the 13 courses (300 level) in Chem and BioChem, 10 courses had the -0.5 GPA deflation. One course even has a -1.0 deflation. Only three courses have equivalent class grade average and the student average GPA. In the Biology department, the discrepancy is smaller. A friend’s kid switched from Chem to Communication after the 1st year. Perhaps, it is indeed wise not to major in those hard sciences. Otherwise, nightmares may start when one just finishes the pre-med required courses.</p>
<p>ace550, Just a anecdotal example: A couple of years ago, a premed student from UPenn claimed (on CC) that there are relatively very few premeds in their Chemistry department. Their overly PhD-track oriented program is not suitable for brooming a well-rounded premed. After all, the medical school adcoms will not be sympathetic to an applicant who has been struggling to meet the high academic demand from a high power professor/Nobel-winner-to-be and does not do much out of the academic – unless this applicant is into a top research medical school. (This particular premed likely got into YSM in the end, mostly due to the fact that he did quite well on his research credential. His stats was slightly lower than some CCers who applied around that year, e.g., NCG.)</p>
<p>It seems to be that many medical schools (with the exception of the very top ones in the research medical school list) prefers the students who happen to be good enough at the INTRODUCTORY science classes only as compared to other “gunners” (read: who excels at test taking skills since childhood but not necessarily enjoys heavy academics) and then the key is they really need to stand out at something not related to sciences (often not related to the school/academic.)</p>
<p>Another anecdotal example: A medical student (was at Chicago now) from Notre Dame (sp?) posted (at least hinted) she herself will never major in Biochemistry at her college – she was likely an anthropology major, likely (the following is my interpretation, not hers) due to the fact that the professors/programs will drain too much of your time without enough reward (e.g., leave little time for non-academic-related ECs to demonstrate that you are a “fit” for a doctor.)</p>