What’s the point?
Money.
There are many more kids who go to non-selective colleges than elite colleges. . . .
and for these kids, the dual enrollment option is a way to save money down the road. The college credits often transfer easily into your own state system, and the credits are not reliant on a one-time test like AP.
Fair point - at my kid’s HS, it was a college professor but the class was taught in the HS and within the HS schedule (but I believe, like a college class - 3x per week).
We would not have “traveled” to take a college class.
Here are my 2 cents.
You cannot control AP teachers, but you can choose CC DE teachers!
One of my daughters had a terrible AP Government teacher - the whole technical magnet class got 3 on the exam… Disaster…
You do not need to take all exams (5-6 APs) during one week, and your grade/transferability does not depend on one exam! This is a big win!
As people mentioned - win for the money. My oldest can attend OOS GaTech only because we strategically took a lot of classes that would transfer. That way we could afford GaTech tuition (fewer classes to graduate).
Most public schools take DE classes without any problems.
On the other hand, top privates do not like DE classes. However, some will take them if classes were taken on a college campus and are not part of required curriculum. That means that if you need 4 English classes for graduation but took the 5th in CC they will count it…
In any approach, 30 credits with straight As from CC for applying to any college looks very good on any application.
My family with the youngest child decided to avoid all AP classes and do DE. Best decision ever!
She took 2 classes only in school in 11th grade, and 1 in 12th with 2 DE classes (with labs) per semester each semester over 2 years. No overload, less stress. She stayed connected in school with friends and was happy kid who had time to do internships and sleep. 0 problems with applications. Accepted to 16 schools (3 waitlisted, 1 reject) out of 20 with tons of merit scholarships.
Thank you so much everyone. I had not considered the money aspect at all. Our high school offers 20 AP classes. It’s a good public school in the Bay Area CA. Since my son has both school band and a jazz ensemble he plays with I am not sure he will have time for DE but I see now why kids would take it.
I haven’t heard of anyone having problems getting into AP classes, our GC was useless last year and either quit or was fired, we have a new GC so we’ll see if he’s more helpful but it’s his first year at this HS and also first time being a GC. I don’t think I can rely on his advice.
For those who transferred credits to UCs what CC did you go to ? we have multiple ones close to us.
I don’t think he’ll be taking any DE classes this year but it’s good to know in case he doesn’t get into classes he wants his junior year or is interested in something his school doesn’t offer.
If you are in California and take a class at any California Community College, it is likely to transfer easily to a UC or CSU (you should always double check - there are a few that don’t transfer - but the majority do). My D took classes through Peralta in Alameda County (but I don’t think it matters too much). Here’s a nifty site I found out about too late:
Here you can find the specific articulation agreements between CCs and UCs to see exactly HOW each class will transfer (if, for example, you want to be strategic in which general ed requirements you fulfill through CC). D was not strategic - she just took what was interesting to her, but it did end up fulfilling several UC requirements.
Another issue: one of our local high schools allows kids to take DE classes at the community college and then that class is figured in to their HS GPA. Every year, the valedictorian games the system by taking one or two easy CC electives to get the extra As on the report card. Not really fair in my opinion.
Use https://www.assist.org to check which California community college courses are considered equivalent to which courses at each UC and CSU campus (and whether they are applicable to a specific major at the campus).
Our high school does not do that (DE classes do not appear on the high school transcript unless they are fulling a specific graduation requirement and, in that case, appear only as pass/no pass), but it reminded me of another important point that may be relevant to the OP since he is in California: DE classes are weighted like AP classes when calculating the UC GPA (so they get a +1).
As with most things it really depends. We were pretty sure both kids were going to go OOS and our HS didn’t really have a DE program, but on the other hand they had every AP class you could think of. The HS did start a DE program with a close university(not a CC) for D23’s senior year. She took a class, but had to jump through a few hoops to get her now college to recognize it. Nothing crazy, but it wasn’t as smooth as the AP credits.
I am a huge fan of AP. With all the AP credits one child was able to double major and have a minor. The next student will at least have a major and minor, but since she is an education major she will probably grab another certification.
I am not a fan of graduating college early. These kids have their whole lives to work and having them start early seems mean. Let them enjoy college life.
Of course, in any situation where class rank is something students care about, there will be rank gaming, and it will be considered unfair by those who do not participate in it.
However, a student whose college life is commuting to a local college to take classes and then race off to their primary extracurricular which is working at a job to earn money to pay for school may have more incentive to graduate college as soon as possible. But such students, while common, are probably not the typical demographic of these forums.
Agreed. If money is an issue then graduating early makes sense for sure.
My daughter took AP classes rather than DE. She was not a good standardized test taker so didn’t score high enough on the AP exams to get college credit. For the required writing classes for college, if she had taken DE classes (mostly papers and not exams), she would have received college credit and not had to take those classes in college.
It wasn’t a big deal for her to have to take the college writing classes. I think she learned something, but it would have been nice to have the extra room in her schedule for something else.
The DE classes would have been taught in her hs, not on a cc campus. Or online. The high school was not close to a cc campus.
What’s not fair
Students competing for Val at my kids schools were highly motivated graduating with AICE Cambridge diplomas or AP Capstone diploma or some years both with DE credits, taken in addition to the AP/AICE classes, at school and the local community college or at one of several four year state universities as well.
I disagree that high school students that take their own time to go to a local community college and take a class or two with college kids while still in High School are gaming the system
It is the opposite they are showing initiative they know they are in a tight competition for the Val and are taking additional classes on their own time.
Also, at least for us only certain classes are available for High School students taking DE. They were core classes, Fine arts and languages mostly.
Time management will be key for us, taking summer language course to take care of UC requirements might make life easier. I get that it’s competitive to get into schools but then I also look at K’s schedule.
7:20 head out to take the bus
8:20 school starts
4:30 back home
1-3 hrs of homework
0.5-1hr music
I am sure next year he’ll want to hang out with friends at times, do other things. He won’t have time to head to a CC or even do classes online. For us the AP/Honor classes will be sufficient. I am glad now that the school doesn’t rank the students.
Our HS offers several in-HS DE classes, mostly electives (not multivariable!). Not only is there the GPA weight of +1 for DE courses (as for AP courses), but the weighted grade point is multiplied by additional credits - a semester DE course carries anywhere from 1.0 to 2.0 high school credits (depending), whereas APs are the normal 0.5 high school credit per semester. Huge weighted GPA boost.
We see the effect in the quartile rankings. A kid can take several APs, have all As (4.0 uw) and yet not make it into the top quartile ranking that is being reported by the HS in the college counselor form. What does a college AO think about this kid’s app (assuming high SAT and AP scores)?
I wouldn’t “plan” for top 20 and it’s good you are asking - but your son ultimately will see how to schedule in the context of the school and what others are doing.
Each of my kids took one DE class - the same one - and it’s because it was offered physically in the school.
We would not have sent them to a college campus.
The reality is - your kids can get into a wonderful college - even without AP. But when you’re going for the competitive ones - of course rigor matters - but it comes in many ways.
The most important thing is - as you note - he will want time to hang out with friends.
It’s good you recognize that - first and foremost, he needs to be a kid. That’s most important.
As I said, my opinion. Not my kids’ school so didn’t affect them personally. But a few As in CC gimme courses shouldn’t put a kid over the top of a kid taking AP Calculus and Physics in the high school instead.
Actually, I’m glad my kids’ school doesn’t do rankings for this and other reasons.
Could there be any impact if med school is on the table? I seem to recall threads where classes taken at a CC were not acceptable.
Actually, it worked in our case vice versa. Program that my daughter is in does not take AP classes at all but allows DE classes that are accepted by a feeder school (LECOM BS/DO). What was interesting that her college (Rhodes) preferred AP, but in the end took her DE…