<p>Again, there is no dispute whether or not this child is “Ivy-Caliber” but the point is he didn’t get in but Dbate did.</p>
<p>I didn’t want to bring this but since I’m familiar with Menlo and Harker and both are similar prep schools; I would like you to look into this.
In the class of 2009, Harker had 55 NMSF compare to 16 from Menlo still Harker had only 15 acceptances from Stanford compare to 19 from Menlo.</p>
<p>Many of those 55 from Harker are far better and more accomplished than the Stanford bound hooked applicant but still might be attending JHU/Duke/UCB. </p>
<p>We won’t talk about those people stats but concentrate on only those from Harker who despite the competition from hooked applicants managed to get into these top colleges.</p>
<p>No, POIH. If there is no dispute that the child is “Ivy caliber” then your post is irrelevant. The thread is about who is Ivy caliber, not who will get into an Ivy League school. We’re agreed that Ivy caliber does not mean Ivy League, right? that it actually includes other top schools, some of which are superior to some of the schools in the Ivy League, right?</p>
<p>My point is that the two hooks did not get the URM into the top school of his choice. So one cannot infer from Dbate’s story that, had it not been for his URM status, he would not have gotten into Yale. I hate counterfactual arguments. They cannot be proved or disproved.</p>
<p>The second example was of a totally unhooked student who got into top schools as good as the one which rejected him, and in fact, superior in the area in which he planned to major. They knew a great student when they saw his file. An unhooked Ivy caliber student may not get into THE top school of his choice, but will still be Ivy caliber and will be admitted into a top school unless he has cast his net too narrowly.</p>
<p>I think you are overestimating how much weight either of these factors is given.</p>
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<p>That is you very narrow interpretation of what the thread wants. What does that even mean anyway? Only the OP can say what the point of the thread should be.</p>
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<p>No, that’s not the point at all. The point is that the applicant in marite’s story was rejected by Yale but was accepted at other schools he was better off at anyway. I think marite’s story illustrates exactly what I think. Every year the Ivys reject thousands of excellent applicants but these kids get accepted at other schools where they are better off anyway.</p>
<p>Marite: I edited the post #401 but reiterate</p>
<p>We are trying to concentrate on only those “Ivy-Caliber” applicant who despite the competition from hooked applicants managed to get into these Ivy+ or what ever your criteria for top colleges is. Mine was always HMSPY + C.</p>
<p>I’ve given you solid proof of how much weightage these URM or Legacy status have in admission to top schools.</p>
<p>Harker as a school beats hands down in all science/math/Hunamities/Arts competitions or acceptances at any out of state top school Ivy+ but loose on acceptances to Stanford to many schools only because of this hooked Legacy or URM status.</p>
<p>If you can find any other reason for this, then let me know.</p>
<p>No where in the OP does PCP ask about what makes a “general applicant” Ivy calber. This is something you have injected into the thread.</p>
<p>You seem to want to dismiss ANY student with a hook as less than others without. Some people might find that the private elite school your D attended as a type of very big tip. I don’t see a student that has all the very top educational and financial resources as a “general applicant.” I see them as students who were fortunate enough to have certain advantages that most applicants don’t. You seem to want to put everybody in a box. Your term “general applicant” is meaningless. </p>
<p>general - of, pertaining to, or true of such persons or things in the main, with possible exceptions; COMMON TO MOST; prevalent; usual:the general mood of the people.</p>
<p>Private elite school students are not “general,” as they are in the minority of applicants.</p>
<p>The experience of a dozen kids at Harker is very interesting but who cares?</p>
<p>As Pea notes, thousands of legacies are rejected at the top schools every year. Some of them are even the children of generous alums. Penn is clear that if you are a legacy and don’t apply ED your legacy advantage is zero-- you are treated like any other applicant and evaluated on your merits such that they may be.</p>
<p>I know many classmates (I graduated from Brown in the '70’s) who are still furious that in the last few years their kids have been rejected. Some of them ended up at Dartmouth, Cornell, JHU and Chicago, (where they were not legacies) so I can surmise that these kids did not have SAT’s in the low 500’s or otherwise “unadmittable” to Brown. They just did not stack up compared to the other apps in the adcom’s pile that season. So just like many of us have said- you can do your best on each application, you can craft an admissions strategy which gives you a range of selectivity in the schools you apply to, but you just can’t know who is the applicant on top or beneath your application in the stack.</p>
<p>You play the cello in a year when Brown has an overabundance of cello applicants- but another legacy plays the French horn and they need a French horn. Oh well.</p>
<p>You care about Dbate, or theGFG or Marite Son’s classmate but you don’t care about well accomplished, academic stars kids about whom the whole thread is about.
PCP is trying to find characteristics of Ivy-Caliber applicant. More than 25% of the class of Harker matriculate to Ivy+ and you don’t care.</p>
<p>POIH. Your definition of a top school is not the universal definition. If you want to play Humpty Dumpty, go ahead. But please remember that you do not get to dictate the terms of discussion or the standards of excellence.</p>
<p>Academic stars? Is that what the thread is about? Who says? By your own definition (not mine, your own) it is not possible for more than 25% of Harker to be academic stars.</p>
<p>Whether Brown takes legacy during ED or RD it doesn’t matter because the moment they take a hooked applicant a non-hooked applicant have been denied that seat.</p>
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<p>Well whether it is Legacy A or Legacy B, the non-hooked more accomplished applicant have been still rejected.</p>
<p>Cyclical trends in popularity of a certain college among students at a particular high school could have an impact as well. The university accepts a handful of students from High School X last year, so noticing that success, this year more qualified HSX hopefuls apply than ever before. For some schools with geographic diversity parameters, this could increase the competition in a regional adcom’s pile and reduce the odds of admission per individual applicant.</p>
<p>No, by definition the thread would like to talk about the 25% who gets into Ivy+. Not because they were more accomplished than others but they might have done something that have made difference at the admissions.</p>
<p>And I think that is what PCP is interested in finding out. What makes an applicant gets into Ivy+ other than the traditional hook.</p>
<p>Also some of the applicants do decide to choose UCB/UCLA or Duke/JHU over the Brown, Cornell, UPenn too. So we are still like to talk about those.</p>
<p>According to #382 PCP wanted to know about general applicant who can get acceptance from an Ivy+.</p>
<p>ParentOfIvyHope – you should get out in the real world more, it’s not that bad. There are kids who aren’t academic stars who are worth getting to know. They are funny and likable and have terrific people skills. They are a pleasure to be around and they are going to do very well in life, with or without stellar academic credentials.</p>
<p>POIH-How can you assume the non-hooked applicant is more accomplished? If admissions has two students with equal stats and one can also play the French horn, why shouldn’t they take the hooked horner? </p>
<p>Realistically, students and parents should be looking at the colleges where their kid has something special to offer the college community.</p>
<p>So, which is which? And who cares about your idea of Ivy+? It’s definitely not mine.</p>
<p>If my S had been interested in CS, I’d steered him toward CMU or some other schools with strong CS departments, rather than Harvard. And indeed, Mathmom’s son, who did get into Harvard, ended up going to CMU.
A strong math student might prefer Chicago or Harvey Mudd to Dartmouth.</p>