<p>Harvard does admit to wanting to train leaders. But that’s Harvard; that’s not every top school. And Harvard’s definition iof leadership and of success s far broader than the crass one about CEOs and future millionaires.
Academic superstars are most likely to go into academia. And though being a university professor has plenty of perks, being a millionaire is not usually one of them. Admitting students with a passion for community service or with overflowing artistic talent is no surefire way to get donations, either.</p>
<p>My point is that many roads lead to success in life. I think that I made it clear that financial success is one of many gauges. It’s naive to think that schools don’t want future business leaders - they most certainly do. And there is always an eye towards the next generation of donors. Let’s be realistic, not crass.</p>
<p>How is shooing-in the top five or ten students from the top 50 high schools in the U.S. much different than shooing-in the children of the top 100 or so wealthiest families in the U.S.? These kids, for the most part, have enjoyed extraordinary opportunity, and yet, their future success in life is certainly not guaranteed. And we cant say with any certainty at all, that many others, from less illustrious high schools, wont speed past them and achieve even greater success.</p>
<p>No one is arguing that there is only one road to success and that is through college. So I don’t see the point of your post. Are you suggesting that the top 5 or 10 students from the top 50 high schools did not get to where they are by working hard?
I’d like to think of my kids’ public high school, diverse, urban, with 52% minority and over 40% on F/R lunch as “illustrious” or belonging to the top 50 high schools, but I’m having a mighty hard time. Still, it manages to send kids to top schools every year. Unfortunately, this is a school where people don’t seem to be discussing one another’s GPA and stats or rank, so I cannot say much about the profile of the students who get into these top schools.</p>
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<p>I don’t think the best brain at works in college like HMSPY or other top colleges will do the job that can be done by computers with a 100% accuracy.</p>
<p>The science has advanced a lot. Every year the colleges compare their adcom decisions with computer generated list of accepted applicants to fine tune process to identify applicants that college need.</p>
<p>As explained before, presently the top college’s software has around 90% accuracy. That is, if the college pick up the accepted batch, based solely on the basis of computer software, it will still get 90% of the same accepted applicants. </p>
<p>The college only wants to make sure that the 10% is not left out by going solely computer so they only used computers for first cut.</p>
<p>I’m not interested in refuting sybbie719 or anyone else. I listen to everyone and use the information as required for my own purposes.</p>
<p>If you don’t like what I say just ignore. Don’t say if some one is posting since 2004 then the person must have more accurate information.</p>
<p>But it is true that present day computer software used by college do a very good job of bucketing applicants into what college desire.</p>
<p>I am pretty sure that computer programs or algorithm’s are not used to make admission decisions. They may be used to calculate GPA’s and AI’s, and certainly to provide statistical reporting that may aid in or influence decisions on a group basis – for example, to give the ad com a sense of the regional or ethnic balance of the class as it shapes up – but they aren’t using computers to select their class. At least not at Ivy-caliber private colleges – large public schools in states where admission is determined objectively based on GPA and test scores probably do rely very heavily on computers calculate whatever factors bear on eligibility.</p>
<p>^^^: it was very clearly indicated in the post that computers are used to make first cut at the top colleges only and not to make a decision about acceptance or rejection.</p>
<p>POIH, lets see the proof that computers are used to make the first cut, since this is the first time anyone here has every heard this claim before. The use of AI has been verified in the past, and is widely known to be used by the Ivy’s, particularly when their coaches are trying to recruit athletes. I would really like to know where your information comes from. if you know this software is used by colleges then prove it. And saying you were told isn’t proof, it is only hearsay.</p>
<p>^^^:Without commenting on the companies involved. Check for “binary segmentation algorithm” or “chi-square-based procedure”. You might be able to get hold of some proof.
Other than that wait sooner or later colleges will be breaking the ice on it.</p>
<p>POIH, you wrote, " Every year the colleges compare their adcom decisions with computer generated list of accepted applicants to fine tune process to identify applicants that college need." You then went on to claim that there is a 90% correspondence between teh computer-generated acceptance list and that ad com’s list, but that ad com’s continue to make decisions just so that they won’t miss the 10%. </p>
<p>I call B.S. on that. I do not think that any private or highly selective public university is running all the applicants through a computer program to see what class the computer would pick. There’s just no logic in doing that, and it would be far too labor intensive to program in all the variables that are considered for applicants, which may be weighted differently from time to time depending on changing institutional needs. Certainly they might look at broad pictures of demographic data – for example, use computer analysis to get the sense of the regional distribution of their applicant pool, or the ethnic breakdown – or projected score range of admitted students – and then later come back to see how close their admitted class is to the projections. But that’s a group statistical exercise, not an individual one. They might use that information to self-monitor for possible bias in the admission process or to guide recruitment and marketing efforts in subsequent years – but that is a very different thing than using a computer to specify which students are going to be admitted or rejected.</p>
<p>There are lot more parent now who wants to make sure that their children are successful not only as an adult citizen but to what they themselves perceive as success. Hence the stress on the HMSPY or HMSPY + C or Ivies or Ivies+ or top 20/25/50."</p>
<p>do you know what we here in the US call people like that? “woefully misinformed” is one charitable option. “pathetic pushy loser” is another. Boy, good thing POIHd is indeed quite smart! Can you imagine how awful it would be if she were (gasp) average?</p>
<p>I have read that Harvard has experimented with computer based admissions (run alongside its regular process) but wasn’t happy with the results. But I wdnt be surprised if these types of studies are going on. Those AI type calculations can really hurt a kid with no class rank or gpa…</p>
<p>All of this discussion is very interesting.</p>
<p>I have no idea what the truth is.</p>
<p>But it sure would be nice if people making pronouncements about computer studies and secret admissions analytical prcoesses could post links or other publicly accesible sources for this information. It shouldn’t be that hard in the internet age.</p>
<p>My S had no class rank or GPA because he graduated early (class rank is calculated at the end of junior year) and many of his classes were college classes whose grades were turned into P/F. Top colleges also admit homeschooled students. Class rank and GPA need to be analyzed in the context of the school from which a student is graduating. Many colleges recalculate GPA, but here there must be leeway. For example, the core grades ordinarily do not include foreign languages. But if a student shows a particular interest in foreign languages and offers evidence of excellence, that would need to be taken into account. I would think that adcoms would sit up and take notice of a student who had studied Ancient Greek, Aramaic, Sanskrit and Latin. I don’t know how one would write a computer program to identify such a student.</p>
<p>Funnily enough, my S1 (no gpa or rank as school doesn’t give grades) has four dead languages (and one living one - his weakest!)</p>
<p>I’m sure the adcoms will take notice of the languages! In my opinion, it’s more impressive than a 4.00GPA/2400SAT.</p>
<p>If computers make the first cut then how do you explain this from the 2012 Harvard Decisions:</p>
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<p>"Without commenting on the companies involved. Check for “binary segmentation algorithm” or “chi-square-based procedure”.
This is old news. They are CAA programs used by colleges or outside firms hired by the colleges to assist them in ENROLLMENT MANAGEMENT- the targeting of particular types of students [ rich, smart, hi test scores, etc] that the colleges would like to attract. Enrollment management companies for the most part are the ones who create and send out the mailers that flood the mail boxes of students with high PSAT scores, for example, and use demographic studies, past admissions and enrollment data, etc, in an effort to increase applications from students who the college wants to attract, AND who are more likely to apply or enroll if admitted. Enrollment management programs also help calculated a colleges targeted yield- how many students to admit in order to end up with a final enrollment number that isn’t too high or too low. But I have not heard of any college that uses a software program to MAKE ADMISSION DECISIONS, once the students apply. Try again…</p>
<p>for an example of enrollment management companies, and a description of what they do for colleges see below
[Increase</a> Enrollment | Intelliworks](<a href=“http://www.intelliworks.com/landingpage_enrollment0908]Increase”>http://www.intelliworks.com/landingpage_enrollment0908)
<a href=“http://www.semworks.net/[/url]”>http://www.semworks.net/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrollment_management[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrollment_management</a></p>
<p>the following is an example of the type of data CAA enrollment management firms generate-
<a href=“https://www.noellevitz.com/NR/rdonlyres/2B773C5C-CFAF-41C8-BACA-63B14C63B6FB/0/UsingPertinentDecisionData.pdf[/url]”>https://www.noellevitz.com/NR/rdonlyres/2B773C5C-CFAF-41C8-BACA-63B14C63B6FB/0/UsingPertinentDecisionData.pdf</a></p>
<p>By proving that the top five or so students from a few high schools are automatically admitted, POIH thinks that he can show a predictable outcome, and therefore game the system: if an outcome can be predicted, then the right requirements can be fulfilled in order to guarantee admission. </p>
<p>Whats the point how does this help parents? The students at the top of the class at these schools is so few that it doesnt really tell us anything about the vast majority of admits. And this is exactly what colleges dont want, because it actually takes away from merit-based criteria. While these kids work very hard and are very smart, they are also advantaged (geographically, financially) to be in their particular school, which is by and large because of their parents. This isnt much different from generations ago when the offspring of the countrys wealthy were guaranteed admission to top schools many of these kids also were smart and did well, given the advantages of money and connections, but lots of other students all over the country also had great potential and colleges recognized that they need to draw from an enormous pool. Which is why many applicants with fewer APs and lower SATs are admitted over super students from top high schools.</p>
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<p>I’ve been waiting for someone to mention this. The outreach of HYPS is nothing short of inspirational. They devote significant resources going to the most disadvantaged areas to recruit students. I read one article where Harvard has students who are so underprivileged that they can’t afford something like a winter coat. There is an office at Harvard whose job is to discreetly keep in touch with these students to see what they need and how Harvard can help.</p>