<p>I don't get this "tier" business. From what I know of large state schools, many of them are "tier 3" and all of them are excellent at SOMETHING, whether the music school or the business school or engineering. </p>
<p>So the "tier" standing is misleading and almost irrelevant. You just have to assess the schools/programs you are going after. And the money they are giving you. ;)</p>
<p>I'd agree w/mommusic. Once my son found his academic/future career interest, I researched all schools around the country (& outside the US!) that had good rep/ranking in that area. I turned up all kinds of schools that I (as an Eng/Psych major) had never heard of --- but from which hundreds of companies that hire grads in his major recruit. And, according to son's major (comp sci) many of the schools ranked higher than Yale, Princeton, etc.</p>
<p>The 'ranking' of a school and assessment of it by necessity has to be viewed through the prism of the student's interests/career goals, etc. </p>
<p>PS I know many people of diverse backgrounds who made lifelong friends at Harvard Law, etc. I think that 'silverspoon-connection' perspective might not be entirely valid today.</p>
<p>Wow, </p>
<p>My husband and I both went to our state school. Both of us love our jobs and have been very successful in our careers. So successful, that we can afford to send our children to any school they want and not have to worry about financial aid (and yes still today after the market downfall). Would I love for my child to go to BC or Georgetown- yes. But ultimately I want her to find her passion in what she loves to do, because without that - no matter what school you go to, you will not be successful in your career. Some of the most important successful business people in our city (ranked 10th largest city), have been educated at our local public state schools.</p>
<p>Coldwind, I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that a "large number of elite university grads" do well on the LSATs and end up in top 10 law schools because...they are smart. And they would be just as smart and likely do just as well on the LSATs if they went to a state flagship university. </p>
<p>Would just as many end up in top 10 law schools? Who knows. It depends at least partially on how elitist? snobby? the admissions officers at those top 10 schools are. But I say cream will rise to the top and many probably would be admitted anyway.</p>
<p>DunninLA -- There are connections, and then there are connections. I don't think many of the folks who are referring to the formation of important connections are referring to the depth of traditional social connection that you're flagging. (Most of us also believe that our youth, Professors/elite schools, employers, neighborhoods, etc. are less class-conscious than in the past). </p>
<p>Having said that, I ensured that my kids (yes -- sons too) took ballroom dancing, studied etiquette, learned to ride English and fence, were exposed to opera and the symphony, etc. They also learned to change tires, cook for themselves and how to repair a toilet.</p>
<p>I didn't come from a wealthy background and didn't go to an elite school, but I did grow up in a community in which old-money and old-connections existed. It was a real eye-opener, and I do think your post has some truth in it. Professional connections can be another story entirely.</p>
<p>I'd love to purchase YHP for my kids (if I had the money and they could get in). I'm definitely sold on the brand names...I also BELIEVE that a Mercedes is a much better car than a subcompact, a diamond is better than a CZ, and those gold boxes of chocolates taste much better than my grocery candy. Oh well. I weigh value and buy the best stuff I can with the money I have...whether it's education for my kids or consumer products. I have two kids in college right now - both in public universities that I can afford.</p>
<p>I think a lot has to do with what one wishes to be "elite" in -- for instance, there is a chimpanzee colony at teeny, little known Central Washington University. If one wanted to be in the elite circle of great ape animal behaviorists, then one might do very well to start with an undergraduate degree from (affordable) Central. Jane Goodall stops by occasionally . . . </p>
<p>If you want to be an expert in highways and transportation, then an excellent start is at Texas A&M -- which has some deep background in the topic. </p>
<p>Neither school will fit you well if your heart yearns to be first violin at the Boston Symphony. </p>
<p>Like the blind men sizing up the elephant -- you get different aspects from different angles.</p>
<p>I agree with HoppingLass. There really is no such thing as an elite school that is tops in everything. It would be better for students to focus on what they want to study, and choose schools that have strong departments in those fields.</p>
<p>I attended an Ivy that was generally perceived as a great school, but it just happened to have a very weak department in my major. This was 25 years ago, the school was far away, and it was hard for me and my parents to judge the quality of the department separately from the quality of the school overall. </p>
<p>It's much easier today, with so much information online and published rankings. I would encourage students to research departments, rather than just colleges. In many fields, Ivies are not the strongest schools.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information. Could you give us a list of the colleges that you applied to for both bys?</p>
<p>i really want to go to harvard and i would like to know if they gave full ride scholar ships. I have always wanted to go to college there but i know that my family might not be able to afford it right now.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, but the schoarships are need based, not merit based. Also, what your family thinks they can afford, and what Harvard thinks they can afford may not be the same.
[Harvard</a> College Admissions § Financial Aid](<a href=âhttp://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html]Harvardâ>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html)</p>
<p>I donât see why her choice is bad at all. Iâm a rising senior, and while I dream of going to âgoodâ colleges like Vanderbilt and Duke, I donât want to put my family in a bad position if I donât get enough aid. They have college money set aside for me, but I donât see how getting full tuition, full room and board, admission to the honors college, money towards study abroad programs, and technology allowances and more arenât things that are good enough. Iâll be able to graduate debt free and use some of what was my âcollege moneyâ to go to grad school or just put towards savings.</p>
<p>Plain and simple, Iâll go to more elite universities if I can get enough money; if I canât Iâll go state schools, where I will be just as likely (maybe even more likely) to succeed.</p>
<p>peace.love.happy- That is exactly what my oldest son decided. He ended up choosing the school (U Florida) that gave him the full ride scholarship with stipend. We told him we wouldnât touch his college fund, and he graduated with a pretty darn nice nest egg for a 23 year old!!</p>
<p>He graduated with degrees in econ and English and was hired in commercial banking, by working with the UF career center. Conversely, his best friend, who just graduated from Rice with an econ degree is still looking for employment while he waits tables at Pappadeaux. </p>
<p>So, it is the âpersonâ who graduates, not the âschoolâ and it is up to the person to make the most out of the college experience, not the other way around.</p>
<p>There was a link earlier in this thread for âautomatic scholarshipsâ (ie based on SAT/ACT or some fixed criteria). The link no longer works, but if anyone has a link to that information please provide it!</p>
<p>try a google search on âmerit aid calculatorâ</p>
<p>or go to the schoolsâ websites and search âmerit aid calculatorâ</p>
<p>some schools may have a calculator on their website.</p>
<p>I just got back from a visit to University of Arkansas, clearly not a top national university and certainly NOT the college where I would have preferred to attend. I was admitted to Bucknell, Villanova, Washington & Lee, Wisconsin, Colorado, Indiana, UConn, Purdue, and a few others. My favorite (Bucknell) didnât give me any financial aid, and at $50K a year, itâs too much to ask my parents to spend, even if they could. I feel guilty even thinking about asking them to sacrifice for this. </p>
<p>So, I went to see Arkansas this week to check it out. Why? Because it was the cheapest of the schools I was admitted to. They gave me instate tuition (neighboring state) plus an additional $5K scholarship a year. This brings the total cost to just under $10K a year. So far this year, Iâve won $9K in scholarships from outside sources, so itâs nearly free for my freshman year. I felt I owed it to my parents to at least look at the place.</p>
<p>I was pleasantly surprised by what I learned. So much so that I might be a razorback next year. Here are a few reasons why I might choose the cheaper school.</p>
<ol>
<li>I can save money to transfer to a âbetterâ college (Bucknell) after one year.</li>
<li>Iâd be in the Honors program with Honors housing and priority registration for classes (after the athletes but before everyone else, including seniors.)</li>
<li>UArk has lots of research/internship opportunities for Honors students in my department (agriculture and life sciences) as well as the university on the whole. This university gets serious donations from major businesses that have their headquarters in the area, including Walmart and Tyson Foods, both of which have buildings named after them or their founders.</li>
<li>My parents agreed to help with the costs of grad school since my undergrad education would cost them much less. This is a HUGE plus to me because I intend to go to grad school immediately after college.</li>
<li>Thanks to a post on CC, I went to gradeinflation.com and saw the average GPA for UArk is 2.95. If I work up to my ability, I should be above-average here, definitely in the higher half of my classmates.</li>
<li>I can graduate without any debt, which will sure help in grad school and later on. </li>
</ol>
<p>Is this what I had hoped would happen to me back in the fall when I applied to schools? Good grief no! 
Did I ever think that Iâd get admitted and STILL not be able to attend my favorite school? Nope.
Am I sorry?<br>
Right nowâŠheartbreakingly so.
Next spring I might be pleased with how things turned out and decide to stay at UArk, or I might decide to transfer. Either way, though, I will have one year of college under my belt and my family will be in a better financial position to help me with the rest of my education, be it at another university for the rest of my undergrad years or later in grad school.</p>
<p>If your family is like mine, I bet the decisions were carefully considered and options weighed. Most people just donât have the funds to throw money around now, no matter how much they want to or how worthwhile they feel it would be. My family values education and recognizes the differences in educational quality among the colleges where I was admitted, but we just couldnât manage it. And now is not a good time to take on huge amounts of debt. </p>
<p>Good luck to everyone who has to go through this money griefâŠas if the application essays werenât bad enough! ;)</p>
<p>swissmiss - can you share your stats and more about the extra scholarship you got?</p>
<p>UArk is one school we want to look at. we are also in texas, so with the non-resident waiver (or whatever they call it) it will be the same as or cheaper than our texas options.</p>
<p>the in state tuition is great, but $$ on top of that ⊠even better!</p>
<p>^Sure, MikeWozowski. Glad to help you!</p>
<p>Female, biethnic (dad is Swiss immigrant), high school doesnât rank.
Graduated with 3.67 including spring of senior year; applied to colleges with GPA of 3.59.
ACT: 30 composite, science 32, math 31, reading 30, English 26 (ouch.)
Two-time cancer survivor who missed about 30% of school freshman and sophomore years due to medical treatments.</p>
<p>ECs: 4-year marching band member, President of one club, Secretary of another. French National Honor Society, member of couple other clubs. Initiated a bottle and can recycling program at my high schoolâs home football games.</p>
<p>Community service: Started a pop tab collection program freshman year to deliver tabs to the Houston Ronald McDonald House where we stayed during my treatments at MD Anderson Cancer Center. Started program at one school (my own) and now collect tabs from 9 schools in 5 districts in 2 states. Active in the American Cancer Societyâs Relay for Life and the Susan G. Komen Race for the Cure. Help local pediatric cancer patients on a personal basis.</p>
<p>Worked at an AMC theatre during my sophomore year when my health permitted. Now work at a Firestone car care center. 
Iâm the token female!</p>
<p>Outside scholarships Iâve won came from a local Scottish Rite Foundation, my fatherâs employer, the American Cancer Society, the Ronald McDonald House Charities, and the National Groundwater Association. I applied to about 20 outside scholarships, most of which are only for cancer survivors and I havenât heard back from more than half of them. Itâs possible that Iâll win more than my first yearâs costs, so that extra money will go for sophomore year expenses.</p>
<p>Honestly, Mike, this visit to UArk shocked me. I wasnât expecting to come away from that place impressed, but I was. I really didnât WANT to like the place, you know? Boy was I wrong. I spent a lot of time with people from the department Iâll major in and learned about the many opportunities they offer their undergrads for research, travel abroad, money for almost anything you want to do that is educational, including âfield tripsâ to other places. If youâre thinking of a business degree, their business school is named after Sam (?) Walton, the man who started Walmart, and they have buckets of money and opportunities for students to get experience. If you like agriculture, they have the Tyson Poultry Science building, compliments of Tyson chicken. Between just those two companies, they have lots of internship opportunities and scholarship money for their students, and there are surely others in different fields of study. The campus is hilly, has lots of trees, and is pretty. It certainly isnât as gorgeous as other campuses, like Cornell, Yale, Princeton, Wake Forest, and Dartmouth, but itâs not the worst either. The town has a couple of malls, stores, movies, restaurants, a bar-loaded street where students hang out, and other things that college kids like to have, but itâs not too big. The natural scenery is very pretty too, if you like that sort of thing. All in all, I left UArk with an entirely different impression of it than what I got there with. The people were all very friendly and VERY helpful. </p>
<p>I strongly suggest that you visit their campus and talk to people in the departments you seem drawn to, even if youâre not sure what youâll major in. If your GPA and test scores put you in their Honors College, then you should look carefully at what that would mean to you. If you have any questions please PM me; Iâm glad to help you if I can.</p>
<p>swissmiss, congratulations on being open-minded and level-headed. And Arkansas is not a huge step down from the other schools you were admitted to. A huge step down from Harvard, maybe, but not so much Purdue, Bucknell, etc. Youâre being smart, and I think youâre about to make the right decision.</p>
<p>Edit: HmmâŠI just noticed there isnât an entry for the University of Arkansas in the alphabetical listing on the forums home page. Can that be? Did I just miss it?</p>
<p>I agree. I canât tell you how many times Iâve been surprised to hear someone in a top, administrative position went to a California State School. Or they started out for 2 years at a community college. And, yet, they there areâhappy, making money and enjoying job satisfaction. This also applies to physicians, attorneys and others I know who didnât start out at a lower ranked school. But they worked hard and went on to be successful.</p>
<p>HImom said:</p>
<p>âYeah, or we could be failures wherever we went & in our later professional lives. There are folks who went to ivies & top tiers who are NOT happy with their lives & have tons of debt too. Who knows what would have happened to them if they went elsewhere? How fruitful is this type of speculation? Having options & letting folks make informed decisions sounds like a good plan to me. Thanks TexasMom for helping with this discussion & thread.â</p>
<p>One of my grown daughters (age 33) went to Fresno State back in the mid-late '90s. She had to take out loans totalling around $24,000. They didnât give her any money. And she was on the Deanâs List, as well as Presidential List, majoring in Biology. But we may not have been aggressive enough in pursuing âfree moneyâ. We also had a 1+ year old baby at home. Now Iâm visiting CC for HER! 
Back when her big sister went to college the internet wasnât available for us to do our research (at least in our home.)</p>
<p>FresnoMom had written:</p>
<p>mstee and dstark</p>
<p>Funny that you should mention Fresno State. My S just got his acceptance letter today for the Presidentâs Honor Scholarship (Smittcamp Honors College) valued at $7,100 per year. It covers tuition, housing and a laptop (but not the meal plan).</p>