<p>Sometimes I read threads with comments like “if your student likes x, y and z, then they will probably be a good fit for Allabama.” So I am wondering, what kind of student might NOT be a good fit for Alabama? </p>
<p>ETA: Not referring to obvious traits that would make the student a poor fit for any college. 
But would be interesting to hear of students who did not fare so well there and the reasons why.</p>
<p>at a school of this size, i think everyone could find a place to fit in.</p>
<p>I wonder, how for example, might the bright introvert fare in an environment with so many options. Are they likely to have so many options that the end up not taking advantage of any of them?</p>
<p>I realize of course that no one can definitively answer these questions. I am just musing and have been wondering lately what “good fit” really means where my kids are concerned.</p>
<p>A post on the MIT section prompted many of these thoughts. A poster commented on MIT working out well for her, a “quiet, naturally-reluctant-to-ask-for-things student” who might other wise fall through the cracks in a different environment.</p>
<p>If students have to vie and compete for every opportunity, that might not be a good fit for kids like this.</p>
<p>my student is a bright introvert. it may take a little longer, but even these kids figure it out.</p>
<p>it is also good for this type of kid to learn that he/she has to get out there and compete for some things. it may not be very comfortable, but this is a handy tool to have in the “real world.”</p>
<p>in high school, my kid would never even try out to be a leader in a group. she was so worried about not being chosen, that she even didn’t want to try. fast forward to today … she has held four positions in her sorority, one position in Alabama Panhellenic, applied for and won two scholarships, is near the top of her class in her department, is in several honor societies (some that required an application, not just an invitation), isn’t afraid of standing in front of a group to give a presentation, isn’t bothered by interviews … the list goes on and on.</p>
<p>I was a VERY introverted student and attended a state flagship about the same size as UA and had a GREAT experience. Based on my son’s experiences and the several roommates he’s had that have left the school: UA is not a great fit for students who want to be close to home to be near family, friends, significant other and opt to attend just because of the scholarships and find themselves dwelling on being back home, UA is not a great fit for students that abuse their new found independence and don’t focus on their academics or have troubles due to drugs/alcohol, UA is not a great fit for students that don’t want to be there and are not willing to keep an open mind and go into it with a bad attitude. </p>
<p>""
I wonder, how for example, might the bright introvert fare in an environment with so many options. Are they likely to have so many options that the end up not taking advantage of any of them?
“”</p>
<p>? that sounds a little odd. We live in the USA where there are so many options. Those who don’t take advantage of any of them, well, are likely people who wouldn’t take advantage of any option handed to them on a platter.</p>
<p>S1 is definitely a “quiet bright introvert” but he found things/groups that interested him.</p>
<p>"“Not referring to obvious traits that would make the student a poor fit for any college”"</p>
<p>So far, we’ve heard from one student who hated Bama, then hated the school he transferred to, and then he transferred again…then he was dx’d clinically depressed. </p>
<p>The school has enough to offer almost anyone. There is even a granola crowd and ones with pink/purple hair.</p>
<p>My kids tend to think through a variety of options before committing to them. If limited options are available (say for ug research) and kids need to act fast to snatch them up before the door of opportunity closes, some kids might take too long weighing the options and lose the chance to take advantage of them. I don’t think they need options handed to them on a platter but they are hesitant to commit to something until they know all the options. They also tend more towards creating their own options (clubs and community activities for example). In this case, I am thinking specifically of research options at a school where maybe only 5 are available but 50 kids want to do it and you only have a 2 week time frame to pick a topic (just making that up as an example). Of course, yes, they would, ideally catch onto this and adjust their behavior if this happened but so many opportunities are there for only a limited time. </p>
<p>I wanted to start with a very general question to see what kind of replies came out. I think the “far from home” aspect is a great consideration. Finding out how the school encourages/facilitates ug research would be a good next step.</p>
<p>I am just tossing around ideas. These kinds of situations have not actually happened (afaik) with them., I have read posts suggesting that students who find a school with this nebulous “good fit” will be more likely to engage in the community and get involved. I am musing about what “good college fit” really means and how one can determine it before committing to a school. </p>
<p>You will not find a definition of “Good college fit” because it varies from person to person. You can only get that from visiting and seeing what an institution feels like. Bama does offer enough that most can find their niche IF they are willing to get out there and look for what they want, As jrcsmom said their are those that will have issues, but the issues that were montioned can, and do, happen everywhere.</p>
<p>As for the UG research question, Bama offers many ways to help the students even those who want full data before deciding (my son fits that perfectly). You have likely seen recent strings on CBHP, Bama also offers Emerging Scholars (ES). The students that apply, and are accepted, into ES spend the first term in ES in a classroom setting learning how to do research. Also, various profs from different areas of the college come in and speak about what research is going on. At the end of the term the students are “matched” up with research labs for the second semester of ES. This allows the students to weigh the different options and figure out where their “fit” is, sounds like something that would work well for your kids. DS went this route and has spent the last year and a half (including last summer) in the same Bio lab doing Nanoparticle Drug delivery research and loves it. He will not be spending the coming summer in T-Town as he has been accepted into the DAAD Rise program and will be spending the summer in a research lab in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<p>The options are there for the bright introverts, but as others have said they do have to be willing to put themselves out there and go for them.</p>
<p>I would have thought that the small classes offered by the honors college at University of Alabama would be helpful to the bright introvert. It must be a great deal easier to make your voice heard, and build relationships with professors, when you are in a group of 30 rather than a lecture hall of 300. Additionally, UA seems to encourage students to engage in research through several programs such as Emerging Scholars. Opportunities are not limited to one program with a deadline.</p>
<p>This is a most odd discussion.<br>
A better question might be: “What makes a student transfer out of UA after their 1st year?” Responses to that question might give you what you’re looking for in relation to why UA was not a good fit for those who chose to leave. I’m guessing in a lot of cases it is financial and academic difficulty, however, rather than not fitting in. Fitting in a little too well with some activities can actually lead to academic difficulties, tho, if you get what I mean!</p>
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<p>It does sound a little odd, but it’s actually been studied in academic circles! Barry Schwartz at Swarthmore wrote a whole book about it a few years ago (The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less) and does a TED talk on the topic: <a href=“Barry Schwartz: The paradox of choice | TED Talk”>Barry Schwartz: The paradox of choice | TED Talk;
<p>It’s really an issue of having so many choices that a person is paralyzed with indecision. (Sort of like this entire college search process!)</p>
<p>OP, I think it depends on the introvert. 
I have an introverted son, but he’s fairly social. (Introversion is not the same thing as being shy, although one can be both.) He sounds a lot like that MIT girl (“naturally-reluctant-to-ask-for-things student”), but learning to advocate for oneself is part of maturing. I think the only way to know for sure is to explore the school. One of the things we like about Bama is that, for a state flagship, it’s relatively small. Compare it with, say, Penn State (which we are in real time), and it’s quite the contrast. </p>
<p>UA has found that the students most likely to transfer after their first year are those from nearby states who have a lot of friends from high school attending college in their home state. These students often find that they want to be closer to their high school friends, but that traveling 3-6 hours each way on the weekends to see them takes a lot of time out of their weekend and that maybe they should transfer back to a school in their home state.</p>
<p>Note that students from far away states are much less likely to transfer to another school because they new coming in that they wouldn’t know many people at first and couldn’t easily travel back home on weekends and short breaks. </p>
<p>Other students who are likely to transfer from UA are those who don’t do their research on UA and the surrounding areas and expect them to be something other than what they are. For example, UA is not Arizona State and Tuscaloosa is not Tempe. Similarly, UA is not the University of Michigan and Tuscaloosa is not Ann Arbor. Birmingham is neither Phoenix nor Detroit. </p>
<p>Financial and academic difficulty do play a part in why some students drop out or transfer to other schools. Like many schools, tuition at UA is not cheap and one does have to study and pay attention to the lectures in order to pass classes. </p>
<p>One of UA’s long term goals is to reduce the proportion of students who transfer to other schools. For instance, UA created an out of state student organization called The 49 which aims to help students adapt to life at UA. Bama Dining is starting to serve more “comfort foods” from other regions of the US. The Crimson Ride is continually expanding to accommodate the increased number of students, many of whom don’t have cars on campus. Greek organizations are pledging large numbers of students from outside of the Southeast. Perhaps most importantly, UA is working to retain its small school feel despite being a large university. Many people are amazed to hear that UA students can walk over to the president’s office and often have a sit down meeting with President Judy Bonner the same day. </p>
<p>Well, I’ve been thinking about this for a while . . . so let me post why I don’t think that I would be a good fit for Bama:</p>
<p>I attended a teeny-tiny high school - total enrollment 140 students. And it was a boarding school, so we all knew each other and all the faculty (who also lived on campus). Everyone was on a first name basis.</p>
<p>When I looked at colleges, my top choices were small LAC’s . . . and that’s where I ended up - an LAC with a student population of about 2,000. Professors were readily accessible and, even though I certainly didn’t know everybody, I generally ran into the same people every day, coming and going to classes and at meals. I recognized them; they recognized me. Everyone lived on campus, and most people, once they got a choice of dorms their second year, stayed there until they graduated. So, for quiet little me, it felt safe, comfortable, nurturing - like my own little nest.</p>
<p>And even though I’m not as much of a coward as that description implies, I still prefer small, intimate groups to large crowds. When I travel, I’d rather visit a local family than a tourist attraction.</p>
<p>I think I’d be utterly overwhelmed at UA . . . it’s just too much!</p>
<p>So, what am I missing?</p>
<p>FWIW, my own kid is considering UA. He also attended a small high school, and even though he knows that the college I attended is way too small for him, he’s still a bit apprehensive about attending a school as large as UA. (Frankly, I think he’d flourish there - he’s much more outgoing than I am! - but he still has concerns.)</p>
<p>Well, there are ways that a large university becomes smaller, especially The University of Alabama. First if your student is in the Honors College, then the feel will be that of a smaller college. Apply for and be accepted into a learning community, or CBH or UFE and the “feel” will be much smaller still. You will be around that group of individuals a lot. Once you begin your major classes, again the group dwindles, you will be studying and working primarily with those students. A large university offers many options and many groups to join but you don’t necessarily have to do everything or even join several groups. Students can find what interests them and stick with that. However, the options are always there. In a small college sometimes the lack of options can be limiting. It is such a personal decision that we can only provide information. The best way to see if the university “fits” is to first visit, take a tour, talk with current students, meet with professors, sit in on a class and feel the love.</p>
<p>I’m an introvert, and if I had not joined a sorority, I would probably just have sat in my dorm on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights. I’m very lucky that I had an extrovert roommate (total luck of the draw) who also helped. Someone who needs small classes and accessible faculty might not be happy. Yes, you can find your little area, just like in a big city, but some can’t, or are afraid to. Another person who would be unhappy would be someone who looks down on the South, or is used to a very metropolitan city. Someone who is only there to please their parents. Someone who needs a lot of guidance throughout their college career, because you sure ain’t gonna get it at Alabama.</p>
<p>No, Alabama is not for everyone, and that’s good. There SHOULD be other choices.</p>
<p>I’m a graduating senior at UA (graduating a year early, despite having the National Merit scholarship) and the fact that I didn’t “fit” at all with this university is the sole reason I am not taking advantage of the extra year of paid scholarship. Hopefully my answers will help out some of you!</p>
<ul>
<li>I’m a very socially conscious person, and the large-scale efforts on Alabama’s part to accommodate things like this (race relations, recycling, the Machine scandals) fell flat in my eyes. I felt that many of the things that I attempted to do–leading organizations, writing editorials, etc.–were completely useless in the long run, due to the fact that I wasn’t affiliated with a sorority and I am also an ethnic minority. This isn’t to say I never tried–but after my second year of running around and doing things (I took 19 hours my first semester, 23 hours my second [18 hours is the ostensible limit for credit hours], worked two jobs my second year and was also president of an organization), I looked back and realized that there simply was no mechanism in place to ensure that the contributions I made that I cared about would last. In addition, the things that I had started to implement required a lot more people to make them successful, but I was never able to get access to those resources. For example, I started a glass recycling program, since the campus doesn’t have one, but it was simply too difficult to run by oneself; despite contacting a lot of people and getting positive responses/running them down and asking about things, nothing was ever actually implemented.</li>
<li>I’m a very extroverted person, but I drifted in and out of various friend groups and never found one that “fit.” But again, this is really a personal thing–I’m very much the type of person who would fit in at a small liberal arts college like Pitzer, and I can really only say I’ve made two friends here that I want to keep for the rest of my life. For what it’s worth, I was in a small learning community (Blount) and though there was a small community feel, it didn’t last once I moved out. I too, like dodgersmom, went to a very small boarding school with 300-350 students total, and I absolutely missed that feeling when I got here. I tried really hard to approach it with an open mind freshman year, but eventually felt that most of the connections and friendships I made were incredibly unsubstantial.</li>
<li>Personally, I’m not a fan of partying, so that seemed to limit my opportunities for socializing.</li>
<li>Campus politics. The Machine, as you will no doubt hear about if you go here, considerably damped/extinguished my school pride, because it contributed to the overall sense of futility that I encountered on a daily basis about the things that I was doing not mattering in the long run. What with the segregated sorority scandal, the contested Tuscaloosa City Board of Education election, and the all-Machine SGA board for next year, I am reluctant to discuss where I graduated with other people outside the university.</li>
<li>Transportation. I don’t drive, so it was very inconvenient going grocery shopping or getting around. There are buses, of course, but the way they run is pretty inefficient (I went abroad for winter break and their “mediocre” bus system in one city was mind-blowingly amazing compared to UA’s system).</li>
<li>Tuscaloosa is a small town, and I am someone who likes large cities that have a lot of things that are going on that I can “discover” (I visited Chicago for a weekend and loved it). If you enjoy the possibility of going out and seeing a Broadway play, or going to a concert, there’s always Birmingham, which is an hour away, but for the most part, the things that happen in this town do not carry that same feeling of excitement and discovery. There are always new restaurants to try, of course, but the cultural activities are somewhat curtailed in this town.</li>
<li>I’ve never been interested in sports, so football season sort of passed me by.</li>
<li>There’s a lot of frustration with bureaucratic encounters–for example, the registrar told me I could send my transcript in a particular way when I applied to law school, which turned out not to be the case, and I missed some deadlines. However, they were completely uninterested in trying to help me rectify the situation, despite the fact that they had misinformed me. I also had to give up on my study abroad plans because I didn’t know the National Merit housing stipend didn’t cover study abroad.</li>
<li>If you are someone who thrives off academic challenges, this might not be for you. The classes that I took (I’m in Honors College) were not academically challenging. I don’t feel prepared for law school, which is my next step. To be honest, my high school classes were more challenging. I took a philosophy class where the professor was supposedly the hardest one and the average grade was always lower than all the other sections (C to B-minus), but I made an A+ with absolutely no studying and came out with no information retained. I took a law class last semester and made a B, but the level of difficulty in that class was astonishing, and I loved every minute of it. There were definitely some classes that I took that I really enjoyed, but overall, I didn’t feel like it was very mentally stimulating.</li>
</ul>
<p>Of course, most experiences are not completely negative. I did have very wonderful advisers, some great professors who were very accessible, and a lot of opportunities for leadership. However, social opportunities, the city, and other inconveniences quite overwhelmed that. When I started my third year, I couldn’t stand the feeling of ennui and being trapped, so I’m graduating this May. I have a lot of friends who also would transfer, if it were not for the expense and their scholarships; I imagine this is not a unique situation, although probably not super common. If you need any more information, don’t hesitate to PM me!</p>
<p>Sakari, thank you for your honesty! When parents/students are evaluating the college decision it is so helpful to hear from those at the schools with a variety of opinions/experiences. I especially appreciated how you tied in the aspects of the university/city of Tuscaloosa to your personality and interests and how it effected you. I wish you the best in law school.</p>
<p>Yes, Sakari, thank you so much for sharing your experiences. It’s so helpful to have different points of view, especially for kids coming from smaller, independent schools. </p>
<p>Do you mind my asking what your major is and if you think the academic rigor there is affected by which college one is studying in? </p>
<p>You’re exactly the type of student my son would find common ground with, so I do wonder if it’s somewhat a matter of there being too few students of like mind there. Best of luck with your law school admissions.</p>
<p>“Education is what you get when you read the fine print; experience is life when you don’t.” I always read the fine print, but I consciously did not share that print with my S prior to his attending UA. I have let my S find out things for himself once he got there; and, on top of his education, he has had great life experiences, seeing first-hand how a certain society operates. He and I have frequent discussions about AL and UA politics and society. Their issues are not easily solved. Having come from IL and the Chicago-style politics <em>we</em> are known for, he has not only learned a great deal at UA about life, but he’s experienced first-hand what we are able now to discuss. He now has a certain understanding that merely telling him about could not have had nearly the same effect. Prior to his experiences at UA, he lived in la-la land (in an area with limited poverty, exemplary education and infrastructure, and extreme racial diversity). I have enjoyed seeing his eyeballs peeled like an onion’s layers over the past 2 years. All for the better.</p>
<p>Thank you, Sakari, for this reminder that not everyone will sit quietly by in life (thank goodness). You are one of those who will not. Your life experiences at UA (and maybe a bit of education thrown in) have left an indelible mark on your life, and I’d like to think for the better, in the long run. You may feel inadequately prepared for your next step, but I truly believe you are not! Thanks again for sharing…and best of luck to you going forward!</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words, everyone!</p>
<p>LucieTheLakie–that’s a good point that I forgot to mention. My experience with academic rigor might not be the same as others, since I was in New College, an interdisciplinary major program housed in Arts & Sciences. I tied my depth study around law school and human rights, the field I’m interested in, so I was able to take courses from lots of different departments that fit with this theme (International Relations, Ethics, Gender Race and Class) of varying levels. I can’t speak to the hard sciences, although my roommate is an astrophysics major and she does have a lot of homework, so it seems to be different and more rigorous that way? (Although she has a lot of issues with software and technology in the classes, but perhaps that’s a UA-specific problem.) This might just be a personal thing, though–a lot of the time, I would talk to classmates and feel bemused because our perceptions of the difficulty of the class differed widely. Or perhaps I was fortunate to have developed some time management skills before coming here and so the worst part was already over, haha.</p>
<p>I would say overall, if someone really enjoys the feeling of a small college and is also very socially committed, this might not be the best place. If it were just one out of the two, it would be different; if one wants a small-feeling college, you can have that experience via Honors or a living-learning community. If one is socially committed, there are various opportunities to get involved (and Honors College does do a lot of community service, etc.). I was just never able to really find a niche in terms of people and passions, and since I’m a fairly social person, I wasn’t able to “make up” for the lack of socialization by going out and experiencing what the city had to offer, so I basically went stir-crazy trying to make it up by doing a lot of extracurriculars. Which is great for my resume, but not as satisfying as finding a group of people you really click with.</p>