I applied as a junior last year (sort of as a failed experiment) and was rejected from all the schools I applied to (all T20). Should I reapply to these schools now that I’m toughing it out as a senior, or will I be thrown into an insta-reject pile even if I rewrite all my essays?
Stats:
1560 SAT
760 chem
760 world hist
3.95 gpa UW
(note: got some meh grades in math freshman + sophomore year - B+ level)
Background:
low-income, non-URM of East Asian descent (male)
Experience abroad and in the US (I'm not an international)
I’m interested in both East Asia and comp sci and have the ECs to back both up.
My comp sci ECs are technically electrical and computer engineering ECs
and they're a little stronger than my Asia ones.
No Math II, fairly mediocre math grades
With my lack of math II and fairly mediocre math grades, should I apply to engineering to leverage my ECE-based extracurriculars or apply to Arts & Sciences?
Personally, I'm more interested in Arts, but I would like to strategize.
What major should I say I am interested in (they usually give you 1-3 choices of major, and have dropdown boxes to indicate your preference when applying)?
I like computer science and I'll prob major in it in college (minor in East Asia perhaps),
but the major is so competitive I'm wondering if it would improve my chances if I applied for East Asia studies (a subject I'm genuinely interested in)
My thoughts:
If I apply to engineering, they might consider me a more well-rounded candidate who can also do engineering work
Or, they just consider me a bad fit for engineering school given my diverse interests, and hence reject me
If I apply to Arts, they say "this kid is a good fit!" and my chances are increased
Or they view me as run of the mill and hence I won't stand out (Arts has a lot of well-rounded people)
If I do arts and say I'm interested in East Asia studies (even though I applied last year to the same school as comp sci), will they be suspicious?
We’re talking schools like Yale, CMU, Harvard, Columbia, and Cornell (don’t worry - I have safety schools this time around, too).
I’m not seeing the logic in applying to T20 engineering schools with “meh” math grades/no math II. As for “strategizing”, I am pretty sure these schools have seen it all before. Your stats seem very good (no idea on your course rigor though) but these schools are a lottery for everyone.
It’s also prudent to ask if your safeties are true safeties. Seen enough posts on CC where people listed matches and even possible reaches as safeties before.
For safeties, I’m largely considering state schools. They’re certainly very good schools, but not selective like UCs or UMich are. Hence, I believe I have a very high chance of getting in.
The reason I said engineering is I have a lot of research work in engineering (electrical and computer engineering specifically) that might give my engineering application a boost. Not taking Math II is one of my regrets, but, alas, there’s not much I can do at this point about that.
Do you think engineering schools are looking for diverse engineers or people who eat, sleep, and breathe STEM? If the latter is the case, I’ll probably go for arts & sciences (though I still think I’d be pretty competent as an engineer).
I understand your concern when I say things like “strategies.” However, I’m genuinely interested in both East Asia and computer science and have extracurriculars in both. It’s not like I’m simply feigning an interest to get in.
My question is, from an admissions standpoint, is there any benefit to applying East Asian Studies rather than computer science?
Note: I’m also still not completely set on what I want to study in college, but there’s a high chance it’ll be one of these 2 subjects
These subject are so diverse. Most engineering students have no clue what real engineering is until like their senior year. Not having math background at some schools would be a big no. Most schools for engineering want you to start math at Calc 1 so having precalc is important or Calc 1 now.
It is usually not easy to switch “into” engineering at most colleges. Michigan is the one I am familiar with that it is not that hard to do. Maybe find another school that switching from LSA into engineering would not be difficult. This way you can try out classes and see how it goes.
At some colleges, CS may be offered in both the engineering and arts & science divisions, but in some other colleges, it may be offered in only one. At some colleges, CS may be in its own division (e.g. CMU, UCI). Changing division may be difficult at some colleges.
At some colleges, you may have to apply for direct admission to the CS major, since it can be difficult to enter the major later.
I’m generally talking about those in which CS is offered in arts and also in engineering.
Part of my question pertains to what to do once I’ve found a school with CS only in Arts (i.e. no separate engineering program). Do I apply to East Asia studies or computer science?
This is valuable insight on UMich (one of the schools I’m applying to). Thank you for that. I’m currently taking AP Calculus BC (and this time around I’m actually doing well unlike freshman + sophomore year), so I believe at least in regards to that I am qualified.
Would it be a red flag to switch intended major at a school like Harvard? Last year, I applied as comp sci. Would it be bad news if I suddenly indicated I would rather major in East Asia Studies?
First, would you be absolutely happy at one of your “safeties”? If not it’s not a safety but a waste of an application fee.
If you are uncertain about majors it will be better to start in engineering. The curriculum is more structured making it more difficult to transfer in later without waiting for classes to come around again.
I think I’d be fairly happy there in terms of course rigor. To be honest, I have not had the means to visit many of my schools and thus only can guess at what the campus culture is like.
I’d say I’m actually more interested in arts than engineering for those schools that offer both.
My parents are just pushing me to apply to engineering because they think I’d be more likely to get in there than in arts (about 2/3 of my extracurriculars are in engineering, 1/3 relate to East Asia).
Unsure if what they say is true, and I’m conflicted because I have varied interests beyond engineering. They also tell me the salary for an engineering computer scientist is higher than the salary for an arts computer scientist for schools that offer both. Any comments on this?
At many schools if you apply as an East Asia Studies major, it will be extremely difficult to switch into CS or even take courses for a minor in CS.
If your goal is CS, apply CS. As to if it’s better to do it through the college of engineering or the college of arts and sciences, depends on your interests and goals. Look up the 4 year plan of study and look at the differences in course work. See what appeals to you the most and then apply. Showing fit is much more important than trying to discern which will be an easier major for admission, especially at your reach schools where admission odds are so low no matter what.
You can also look up the first destination surveys for the colleges on your list and see what the different starting salaries look like for CS in engineering vs arts. I think you’ll find them fairly comparable.
If your trying to make your application fit like a square peg in a round hole you will fail. It just seems like that is what your trying to do. You can combine your interests. Google these two and see if you come up with something interesting. That would make you sound more interesting also.
There is someone on Quora that did the same… Look it up since I can’t post it here
Honestly, I would not worry so much about strategies but instead apply to a major in which you are most interested. Your application will be stronger if it’s focused on your interests and you can explain how the particular schools you are applying to fit into those interests. Having EC’s in other areas in high school is fine, it shows you were exploring other interests. It shows you’re well rounded. Lots of engineering kids were in sports or music or whatever in high school and that doesn’t hurt their applications. I’m not sure why the opposite woudn’t be true.
While I agree that it’s generally a lot harder to move from LAS to engineering than the other way around, it’s also often a lot harder to get admitted to an engineering program. Also, if you enter as a freshman engineering major to a T20 school your coursework will be pretty darn set for the first year or so with STEM classes and you might have little chance to take classes in LAS subjects until later. My D is a freshman engineering student at a T20 and her freshman year is all Chem, Physics, Math, etc. I think the only non-STEM classes she’s taking this year is a required writing class and a 1 credit fitness class she wanted to take.
I agree with other posts though that you might want to see if there are ways to combine your interests or have a major/minor in different subjects. At many schools students combine varied interests in this way. I remember at the Northwestern info session they talked a lot about students having the flexibility to do this and provided some interesting examples of the different paths students took. Other schools, like Rice, don’t really admit to a major or particular college (except for music and Architecture I believe) . While they want to hear how you will pursue your interest once there and how your interests fit into what they offer, they don’t require you to declare a major until the end of your sophomore year.
So, my advice is to think about what your interests are and start doing your research on what different schools offer. I’d be less worried about a T20 than finding a good fit.
Thanks for this. I think it’d be fantastic if I could think up a way to combine computer science with East Asian Studies, but so far I haven’t come up with much.
After viewing the advice given here, I’ll probably go for arts & sciences in schools that offer CS in arts.
The major/minor idea sounds good (I’d definitely want to take classes in both).
By the way, is it true that schools (T20s like Harvard, Yale, Cornell) admit by major? I’ve heard horror stories about computer science majors having a rough time because there’s so many kids applying to it. That’s one of the main reasons for my concern, as I’m somebody who is still debating between majoring in East Asian Studies and CS.
Do you think they’d view my application holistically (considering that I have varied interests and extracurriculars) or sort me into the cutthroat “CS STEM-boy admissions” pile and leave me to die?