I know a kid who applied as a environmental science major. Bay area Asian male, perfect GPA, 1590, NPO related to major (sustainability/climate change) with 3500 kids impacted, numerous high level awards related to major, excellent essays, etc.
So the dude applied to colleges that let u switch and don’t let u switch. It is fairly obvious he wanted to go to CS from my standpoint (no indians will approve of a kid who does environment lmao, he just applied this to get into a prestigious college). He got into Berkeley MET in civil engineering and he cannot switch tracks to CS, UPenn VIPER (cannot switch to CS). The only other top college that accepted him that let him switch was Caltech. He got rejcted from MIT, Stanford, Princeton and waitlisted at Cornell (arguably he was also stuck into environment at this college).
Here is the thing tho. 2/3 colleges accepted him that pushed him into a major that didn’t let him out, and 1/4 colleges accepted him that let him do anything. Guess where he is going… the 0.5% acceptance rate school (MET) with rarest alumni network? no. UPenn? No. No he is going to Caltech, the one school that let him switch to do CS.
See, I think bay area asian males are put under extreme scrutiny. It is so obivous they are going to do CS.
im talking about indian parents. They sure as hell won’t let their kids get away without a CS/Bio/Med/Law major. Especially bay area.
it is just exceptional bay area asian males who are playing the system to get into top colleges that I think are being caught/not being given as much slack, as, say a northeast asian male who applies to an underrepresented major.
Here is my take on what information you have posted.
Student did not do enough research to see if switching majors was possible and thought by “backdooring” their way into several schools by applying with a less competitive major, they would have a better chance at an acceptance at the elite schools. The student was highly competitive for all the schools regardless of intended major.
Some schools admit by major and some do not and many can make the change of major process difficult for competitive/impacted majors since Adcoms know all the tricks.
Being Asian male had no admission significance at least for UCB which cannot use race/ethnicity in their admission decisions.
CalTech is an excellent option so I do not see an issue for this student.
My recommendations when applying to any school is if you know you want to study CS, then apply for that major.
IDC about where student goes. I only care about whether I can backdoor as a liberal arts major with liberal arts ECs (environmental studies)
As a bay area asian male
Also do you seriously think someone applying to, say, Brown/UChicago will have the same chance with the same tier ECs as a CS major vs same tier ECs environemntal studies major? Even if they don’t “accept by major”. Why then is CS such an anti hook in the first place???
For reference: USABO semi + USACO Plat going to purdue. Much better ECs imo then the one I listed
I will only backdoor into schools that “”"""“don’t accept by major”""""" (aka let you switch). I obviously will apply cs/cog sci to berkeley/la/ only CS to lower tier UCs
Again, this is my question: is someone applying to, say, Brown/UChicago will have the same chance with the same tier ECs as a CS major vs same tier ECs environemntal studies major? Even if they don’t “accept by major”. Why then is CS such an anti hook in the first place???
I cannot answer regarding UChicago or Brown, but CS has become a very popular and competitive major for all schools and schools have limited capacity for students which is determined by the # of professors and courses available for their programs. Each school determines their major change policy so again, research if it is possible before applying although this is no guarantee since policies can change. Go in knowing what is and isn’t possible.
Thanks for the insight. And since I have your attention…How do the kids do within such strict university major constraints? And I assume that the college name has to be chosen within equally constraining parameters? I get the worry of parents that their kids end up with a career that can sustain them financially but the name brand university “thing” (I don’t know what to call it really) is hard to grasp.
As for you, if I understood your musings correctly, I would apply to the major YOU (not your parents) wish to pursue. If that is indeed CS you’re lucky because there are many great programs in California and in the US in general. Good luck OP!
TBH i love CS but I love Neuroengineering even more. But it is obviously high in competiton. I also want to be a neuroengineering entrepreneur, and it is sadly not possible to be succesful within that space without a decent college behind your back. Look at Y Combinator - Being from a high level college does reward you. The connections as well - rich kids who if u play ur cards right will fund your stuff.
Luckily, I have ecs that are related to an easy major (environmental studies). To push my family from the 5% level to the 1%, I need a high level college degree… and if that doesn’t work out I am always applying CS to low tier schools, so i wil lstill manage to havea decent living
You seem to have a strong entrepreneurial spirit so you find yourself in the right country and neighborhood. Our family is not even in the top 5% (I assume you mean income wise) but we live well and have satisfying careers in research. I would never dream of pressuring my kids into a career just to make money but having said that, I don’t have an entrepreneurial bone in my body. Do you think that if you have kids you would want them to make the income jump from 1% to 0.1 %? I guess money begets money so it’s a logical, albeit stressful to you, chain of events.
Neuroengineering sounds really interesting. Are you thinking about medical device startups?
Do you really think UChicago/Brown/JHU/Stanford has equal expectations for Extracurriculars for Computer Science vs Environmental Studies majors? They claim “don’t accept by major”. But comon, really?
I don’t understand what you mean by “equal expectations for extracurriculars”? Schools are looking for ECs that match a student’s expressed interest.
If you want to study CS, look for a school that has direct admission to the major. Schools are very wise to students who are looking to “back door.” If you truly don’t know which major you would prefer, look at schools like Notre Dame where you don’t declare your major until 2nd semester sophomore year.
Schools either admit by major or they don’t.
A CS degree from any school will set you up just fine for a career. Every student needs a balanced college list regardless of intended major and geographical location. There are plenty of schools with less competitive admission to research. If you are looking to do a start up, check out Lehigh which has an entrepreneurship minor. Purdue has “the Foundry” which helps support start ups.
Applicants should realize that if different majors have different admission selectivity, changing major after enrolling may be difficult (or impossible in some cases). Location or ethnicity has nothing to do with it.
The reason why some majors may be more difficult to get into is that they are more popular than the department has capacity for. This means that they are also more difficult to change into after enrolling.
He is going to a great university with a strong CS program. This part worked out well.
I do not think that Caltech considers your major in admissions. He probably would have been accepted regardless of which major he selected.
Years ago I happened to chat with an environmental scientist at the same time that one daughter was (temporarily) majoring in environmental science. Apparently there are quite a few jobs and good careers for ES majors. I suppose this is irrelevant if you have no intention of actually majoring in it.
Absolutely. Do not try to outsmart admissions at a top school. You will not come up with a successful trick that hasn’t already been thought of by 10,000 previous applicants.
I think that this particular applicant lucked out. However, getting into Caltech has to be a very high reach for very nearly everyone.
I can sort of answer for the university I attended. MIT uses your alleged intended major to pick your freshman year advisor. If you tell them you want to major in environmental science, you are very likely that you will get a freshman year advisor who teaches something related to environmental science. If you then tell your advisor that you want to take computer science electives, that is fine. Then at the end of the freshman year you pick your major and you switch advisors.
I think this a a good place to apply Occam’s razor. Maybe the person that you are referencing wasn’t the best of the best in the pool he put himself in instead of some convoluted explanation of AO’s second guessing what is stated on the application.