What midwest U should son apply at?

Parent Cafe
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<p>It can sometimes be hard to tell what a CSS Profile school will do when it calculates your “family contribution”. Some people have reported swings of $15k or more. </p>

<p>Once this family has a couple of financial safeties on their list (schools that they know FOR SURE they can afford based on assured scholarships, small fed student loans, and family funds), then they can feel free to cast a wide net and see what Spring FA Packages might bring.</p>

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<p>I have a huge bias in favor of LACs, but I would not cite placement records into graduate and professional programs as an argument in their favor. Even the most selective state universities have large numbers of students who have no interest in pursuing graduate education. In short, I don’t think there are any statistics at all that allow valid comparisons of LACs and large universities - they are simply too different in too many ways.</p>

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<p>“In short, I don’t think there are any statistics at all that allow valid comparisons of LACs and large universities”</p>

<p>On the contrary, there are:
[nsf.gov</a> - NCSES Baccalaureate Origins of S&E Doctorate Recipients - US National Science Foundation (NSF)](<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178]nsf.gov”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178)</p>

<p>TABLE 2. Top 50 baccalaureate-origin institutions of 1997–2006 S&E doctorate recipients, by S&E doctorate recipients per hundred bachelor’s degrees awarded in all fields 9 years earlier, institutional control, and 2005 Carnegie classification.</p>

<p>Rank Academic institution Institutional control 2005 Carnegie classification 1997–2006 S&E doctorate recipients</p>

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<p>Seriously? New Mexico Institute of Mining & Technology is the most successful public institution at preparing students for science and engineering doctorates?</p>

<p>That study, which says, “The analysis focuses on two types of output variables: the absolute number of S&E doctorates and the institutional yield—the number of S&E doctorates in a given year per hundred bachelor’s degrees awarded in all fields 9 years prior to that year” doesn’t address the problems I noted in my earlier post.</p>

<p>For that, you’d have to answer the question: “Of students who aspire to [type of graduate of professional degree], which type of institution is more successful in enabling them to achieve that aspiration?” You’d also have to control for the incoming quality of students.</p>

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<p>You mean in the table 2 in the above link? It is not really that surprising.</p>

<p>[NMT’s</a> 2010 common data set](<a href=“http://www.nmt.edu/common-data-set]NMT’s”>http://www.nmt.edu/common-data-set) indicates that the distribution of majors among the bachelor’s degrees conferred for 2010 was:</p>

<p>48.2% engineering
17.4% physical sciences
8.7% biological / life sciences
8.2% computer and information sciences
4.6% mathematics
2.1% natural resources / environmental science</p>

<p>i.e. 89.2% STEM.</p>

<p>versus:</p>

<p>6.2% general studies / liberal arts
2.1% business / marketing
1.5% English
1.0% psychology</p>

<p>i.e. 10.8% total non-STEM, if we assume that all “general studies / liberal arts” are non-STEM.</p>

<p>The next highest public university on the list, [url=<a href=“http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/cds/index.html]Berkeley[/url”>Common Data Set | Office of Planning and Analysis]Berkeley[/url</a>], shows 36% of bachelor’s degrees for everything that could be considered STEM.</p>

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<p>the study speaks for itself. You may find the results surprising, but that does not make the analysis wrong. If you look at table 3, it shows the baccalaureate origins in absolute numbers of S&E PhDs. In that table the public U’s do rank higher, because of the sheer # of Bacc graduates from large public U’s. But as a % , a larger % of graduates go on to earn a PhD’s in STEM fields from smaller, more intense private colleges [ this does not count MD’s]. This is not a new report btw- I learned about it a few years ago.</p>

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<p>As far as it goes, it may be correct. However, it addresses neither of the issues I raised. You can’t statistically compare the effectiveness of LACs vs. large public universities in preparing students for graduate or professional degrees, at least not without a lot more sophisticated data than is readily obtainable.</p>

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<p>Keep in mid, there is a high drop out rate at NMT due to its rigor. It is relatively easy to get into and many kids might have to put on big boy pants and get through it. Staying in is a big problem from what I’ve heard. Only the dedicated graduate; there is nothing to do in Socorro. Everyone there is there to succeed or they all burn out. I think that explains it. It weeds out the unprepared.</p>

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<p>NMT’s CDS indicates a 46.1% six year graduation rate for those who entered as freshmen in 2003. Four year graduation rate for those who entered as freshmen in 2005 was 17.3%.</p>

<p>One of NMT’s rotating banner pictures shows a student wearing a Texas shirt:
<a href=“http://www.nmt.edu/templates/nmt/images/top_image/himg_default_06.jpg[/url]”>http://www.nmt.edu/templates/nmt/images/top_image/himg_default_06.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I agree with the OP that California is, indeed, really far from Wisconsin. IMHO, USC is not worth the long commute. My kid was offered a half scholarship into the engineering program; there was still a lot of tuition to have to cough up every year, and the computer science program was OK but not nearly as good as 3 other schools in the state. And BTW, Harvey Mudd isn’t even offering 10k off tuition anymore like they used to. They have so much demand that they don’t have to offer money to anyone.</p>

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<p>If the family will have about a $10k “family contribution” then a half tuition scholarship from USC is meaningless…it will just go towards “need.” That scholarship is mostly only meaningful to those who have little or no need.</p>

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<p>With the OPs stats he has a good shot at the Full Tuition scholarship that USC offers, and that makes it as affordable as an instate public, especially if the son wants to get out of the Midwest. In addition, USC has an incredibly affordable FA program. There is no harm in trying.
OP here is a link to USC calculator
[USC</a> Financial Aid - Planning for USC](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/applying_receiving/undergraduates2/netpricecalculator.html]USC”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/applying_receiving/undergraduates2/netpricecalculator.html)</p>

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<p>I assume you are talking merit money of some kind here? Surely Harvey Mudd is not restricted to full pay students only!</p>

<p>I want to reiterate Swarthmore for this student. One of the very top LACs, great for a serious student, excellent FA, and has engineering, which most great LACs do not.</p>

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<p>Harvey Mudd still offers several merit awards, including the $10k/year scholarship. See [HMC</a> Merit-Based Awards](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/admission1/costsandaid1/typesofaid1/scholarshipsandgrants1/hmcmeritbasedawards.html]HMC”>Merit-Based Scholarships | Harvey Mudd College).</p>

<p>What’s changed in recent years is that it’s no longer based only on grades and scores; they take into account other attributes too.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone for your input. I will pass along what I learned to my son.</p>

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<p>I came back to catch up on this thread and we’re all over the country! I thought we were talking about great merit opportunities in the midwest for kids that like math and science.</p>

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<p>some of us have suggested that the OP’s son “cast a wider net”, as there are some really big merit opportunities at colleges outside of the midwest for applicants with her sons stats. He can always say no.</p>

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<p>Not to mention that that wide net should, for this student, include need-based schools. If he got into Yale, for example–and it is not wild-eyed to think that a val with a 36 ACT might do so–his parents would probably pay less than they would at their state flagship. (Assuming that their income isn’t a lot higher than it sounds.) The same is true at other deep-pockets, need-only schools.</p>

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<p>I just finished reading all the posts…yes if the parents and the student want to crunch the numbers to see what their institutional aid might be…some families may not want to bother with that. The possibility exists that the private colleges might ascertain that what the parents should pay might be more than what they want to pay and the OP did say the budget was important to them. But an application or two to a very generous private if the student and the parents would consider the distance is not out of the realm of possibility. I was mostly responding to all the posts regarding college that are peers of many of the fine institutions in the midwest with strong math and science programs that are known merit aid for this family and also meet the request of being within a day’s drive. There’s no harm in sending a smart kid to a good school and keep to the budget and the desired distance.</p>

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<p>Send only ACT’s. </p>

<p>Non-midwest suggestions with good merit awards at very good schools are U Miami, Tulane. Both schools give merit based on GPA and ACT (or SAT). UVa gives very few full scholarships but as you are from the midwest you may have a better chance of being chosen. See Jefferson scholarship. You have to be nominated from your high school and then get to an interview stage.</p>