Need to finalize list with DD. She has worked hard and done well. I don’t want her to undersell herself- thematically we have been in “stay realistic” mode for the entirety of this journey. Maybe a bit too conservative.
How about the “what if” schools…
Entering senior year
URM
3.97UW, 4.83W
1510 SAT (780M, 730V)
4 AP’s thus far - all 4’s and 5’s (Stats, Physics, Psych, CS). 4 more in senior year.
2 Varsity Sports, captain on both. Paid work and some volunteer.
Intended Major: Mechanical E
Forget cost, geography, campus preference, weather. Impossible to answer, so I ask you…what is the most prestigious school she has any reasonable chance of getting into?
Don’t savage me, but I still believe there are 20-30 schools worth paying for if one is fortunate enough to be admitted.
I would think Georgia Tech is a realistic school. If ME is her intended major, it is a great choice.
I know someone with more impressive stats who was turned away from MIT.
If 4 of the AP senior year include calc and AP physics C, I’d say she has shot nearly anywhere -GT, Michigan, Purdue, Cornell, Columbia, CMU, etc…
Have a well balanced list but definitely have reaches too.
BUT…all the things that you told us to forget is what helps shape the list. Prestige is totally unimportant for a mech E. What kind of environment does your D want? Collaborative vs uber competitive? Career readiness vs theoretical? Strength of Co-ops/internships or more grad school focused? Core vs more flexible curriculum?
I agree with @roycroftmom that your daughter stands a chance at any school (and not just a snowball’s chance). My only hesitation would be on which APs your DD scored a 4 on on the APs. Some schools like Carnegie Mellon or MIT might ding her for those if they are strongly related to what she will be studying (so a 4 in psychology would not be as big of a concern as a 4 in physics). And even at those, I would not say that her chances are impossible, but slimmer, simply because they are so heavily-focused on STEM schools.
But some of the most prestigious schools where I think your daughter would have as reasonable a chance as anyone to get into are:
I also agree with roycroftmom that your D has a profile that may be accepted at any school.
I also agree it’s the other factors that will define/whittle down her list, because she can’t apply to 20 prestigious schools. (Well, she can, but her apps won’t be as strong as they would be if there’s a focused list).
For example, If she’s certain she wants to be an engineer, I probably wouldn’t look at most Ivies. But, if she wants major flexibility, Ivies can make sense.
I totally agree with that.
No harm giving it a shot at the Ivies and HYPMS and your daughter certainly has a good shot, but you may want to look at other well respected engineering programs that may be a better fit.
To be clear- list is assembled. It is well balanced and realistic. It weighs geography, cost, major, campus. Really well thought out and informed by this forum. She is in GREAT shape.
If she is light on anything on her list, it is reaches. In 10 years she will be 28, and I don’t want her to look back and say she never gave school X,Y,Z a shot. At the same time, I don’t want her to “waste” time on an application to a school that she she has zero, or close to zero chance of being admitted to.
EDIT: My post went in simultaneously to yours. You clearly thought much of this out.
Beware, this forum is littered with students seeking transfer advice who only followed prestige/rank. If you both want, prestige can be a factor, but it should never override fit factors that would make a student miserable.
As for where she has a shot, the list is long. The thing you need to know though is that she’ll be an average engineering candidate at best, at most of the highly rejective schools if she hasn’t had Calc BC and Calc based Physics. Her stats will fit into the accepted student averages, but nearly all of the rejected students will too. It’s going to be a long shot, but not an impossibility. Be realistic.
Now, 20-30 that are “worth it,” what does that mean to you? Most wouldn’t have a list that long of “we’ll pay it no matter what” schools. What unifies that list for you? Besides the obvious ones people list, MIT, Stanford, etc. what other schools speak to you?
Lastly, don’t take this as savaging, but there are LOTS of schools that set up MEs to be very successful. My son had stronger stats, more rigor, and stronger ECs, and he didn’t apply to any of the big name schools (unless you consider Cal Poly a big name). He has a BS/MS in ME, and passed on a chance for grad school at Stanford, and has still done quite well. His boss, a well recognized authority in their niche area, went to a very off the radar school. It’s about what students do, far more than it is about where they go.
Best of luck to her, and congratulations to her on her accomplishments.
I think this is one of the most important questions. Since it is true that prestige is not important for MechE, going to a prestigious school will need to be advantageous in other categories.
Some of the fancy schools have collaborative, supportive environments. Some are known for being really tough. Engineering is somewhat of a grind no matter where you go, but some (not all!) of these schools are known for being a particular grind. That was something my kid was not interested in at all, so he didn’t even look at those schools.
Some kids are challenged and stimulated (rather than worn down) by those environments. I think this is a crucial factor to consider.
Your daughter will get into some fantastic programs. Good luck with choosing the last couple of schools for the list!
Should anyone be concerned, list is as follows which is the result of an exhaustive process:
Carnegie Mellon University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Case Western Reserve University
University of Miami
San Diego State University
Binghamton University—SUNY
Santa Clara University
SUNY New Paltz
University of Arizona
Arizona State University—Tempe
Many of these are “easy” to apply to (no supplemental, etc.). She might trim 2-3 from this, who knows. I wouldn’t mind her adding 1-2 names to the top of the list.
We know our filters VERY well at this point (geography, majors, campus, cost, merit, etc.) Concern (and not a huge one) is that we might have eliminated some because we came to the conclusion that they were next to impossible admits, and not worth the effort.
Have no idea if they are affordable or not but if your D is looking for a “what the hell” short list (but not a wasted application) I’d suggest taking another look at Michigan, Northwestern, Rochester. If you’re looking for another safe bet, Stonybrook.
I’m sure it’s been an exhaustive process… looks like there some outliers here but not every list makes 100% of sense (the vibe at Santa Clara is so different from CMU or Georgia, for example…)
Good luck! I’m sure your D will thrive wherever she ends up!
Is there a reason Northeastern is not on the list, being a coop school. Would she want to even apply to MIT? What about Tufts, which is a good engineering school?
Based on this list (and not knowing detailed filters/affordability), if she wants to add reaches I might add Northwestern, Penn, Columbia, and/or WashU.
Did you consider Cornell and UPenn?
Yes, both are reachy but fall into the “might regret not having tried” category. Both are strong in engineering and I think your daughter has a better than average chance.
If SDSU is on the list, I’d certainly give Cal Poly a look. It would depend on her 9th grade marks, CSU calculated GPA and rigor. She’d likely have a shot though. I’m certainly biased, but it’s the only CA school my son applied to from out of state.
As for prestige schools, would she choose one if it violated most or all of her other screens? If not, then a little word on what she’s specifically looking for might help guide posters.
I agree with others that she has a chance for admissions at any university in the USA.
One thing about engineering (and computer science): Once you graduate and are six months into a job, people do not care about where you went to university. I do not ever recall anyone lamenting that they only went to their in-state public flagship (or their in-state #3 or #4 in the larger states). I do remember some people who attended in-state public universities for their bachelor’s and then attended a really top school (Stanford level) for their master’s degree (at least among the minority who bothered to get a master’s degree at all – it is not necessary for engineering and CS).
One issue about “MIT, Caltech, Stanford” level schools: Engineering is tough anywhere. It is tougher at the small handful of top schools. I remember students at MIT complaining about how difficult the homework was in a first year ME course (and these were students who made it into MIT). Anyone applying to a tiny handful of the really top ranked engineering schools should be very confident that they really want to work that hard for a full four years.
For mechanical engineering: A good fit is important. ABET accreditation is important. Affordability is important. Attending MIT or Stanford is not necessary.
Also, do not get too impressed by the Ivy League. While there are some Ivy League universities with good engineering programs, the top engineering schools are not in the Ivy League, and many in-state public schools are just as good if not better for ME.
Finally, it sounds like your daughter is doing very well. Congratulations!
Its unlikely she would let prestige trump other considerations when all is said and done . But prestige is really not binary. Depending on the school, its weight varies in the decision making process.
For example, the prestige of Stanford, Harvard etc. carries much more weight than other schools. The weight given to prestige really differs from school to school.
In her case, she ultimately will attend one school on the list I shared. That said, if she got into something like Stanford- she would absolutely go. Cornell probably not.
As others have mentioned, prestige in ME is not really important. Coursework, grades, projects and jobs/clubs are. Harvard for example, might even be a strike against in the minds of hiring engineers.
A student needs to know if they’d enjoy a school like MIT or Caltech if they get in. My son for example knew he wanted a “typical college experience” and had no interest in those schools, even though we have alumni in the family. As a result, he didn’t apply. My sister was accepted to MIT, but turned it down.
It takes confidence and self assurance to not apply to some schools. They aren’t for everyone.