<p>Unless I am mistaken, 75% would mean overwhelming majority of the student body support eating clubs. 75% does not sound like they are exclusive. I think they are race and gender neutral. You don't have to be a male. You don't have to 'punch'. At many just sign up.</p>
<p>We can't be trolls when we are on our own boards. Over here we are advocates. As you are an advocate on the Harvard board.</p>
<p>"ONLY AT PRINCETON: Frats and sororities exist at Princeton, but it's the Eating Club tradition that sets the school apart (and gives it the rep for being elitist). A student attempts to join an eating club at the end of his or her sophomore year. There are 10 in all, five of which require its members to "bicker" to join. For the duration of their junior and senior years students will eat their meals at the Eating Club. Of course, the clubs are more than a step up from cafeteria life. In fact, the Eating Clubs are mansions lining Prospect Street and act as the main cog of campus social life, hosting parties and various events throughout the year."</p>
<p>"FINAL-ly: Like Princeton, Harvard wouldn't dare have fraternities as the center of its social scene. Harvard's eight Finals Clubs help share the social burden. If you get past all the pretension (members are males only), Finals Clubs are a lot of fun. While the clubs' names are a little much (examples: the Spee, the Fly, the Phoenix), the clubs own ridiculously sweet mansions in Cambridge that are perfect party destinations." </p>
<p>"There's a reason Pton is viewed as the elitist, WASP, preppy, exclusive IVY." </p>
<p>NOT SO any longer by a long shot. How can you say it is WASPY or even preppy? According to the April 5 2006 Daily Princetonian, the latest admissions statistics:</p>
<p>"44 percent are minorities, a rise of two percent. Rapelye defined minorities as "students of color, including those who voluntarily checked 'biracial' or 'multiracial.' "
This year, 61 percent of admitted students attend public school..."</p>
<p>I was there at April Hosting and saw many blacks, Asians, other students of color, and students from a variety of cultures. I shared a meal with several black students who all loved Princeton and were so glad they chose Princeton. The diversity there was harmonious, unlike some urban universities where the high number of minorities can tend to self-segregate.</p>
<p>Good point, scottie, about the exclusivity of Harvard's "final clubs" unlike Princeton's eating clubs.</p>
<p>Arjun:</p>
<p>you may also want to visit campusdirt.com. Register for free and compare Harvard and Princeton side by side......you will find more meaningful comparision in areas that matter to students. Way beyond the 'eating clubs'.</p>
<p>Didn't we just have all these same tiresome arguments ad nauseum a couple of weeks ago?</p>
<p>Do we have to do it all over again? Princeton vs. Harvard is becoming the "Goundhog Day" thread.</p>
<p>Hmm...I guess my inquiry has exposed some rivalry. Well, I really didn't intend it to be like this. But you all have given me some good information to start with, so thanks a lot.</p>
<p>The "rivalry" is a one-sided one, I think!!</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/photoExpansion.jsp?id=5326%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/photoExpansion.jsp?id=5326</a></p>
<p>Hahah, excellent.</p>
<p>Actually, Princeton is feeling a bit left out of things rivalry-wise. The Daily Princetonian thinks the school should stop trying to horn in on a triple date with Harvard and Yale and simply settle for Penn!</p>
<p>Hey. I kinda skimmed through this thread and I'd like to offer my two cents.</p>
<p>By the way, I'm a senior in high school and I chose Princeton over a few top schools (e.g. Dartmouth, Cornell, Williams, Amherst, [NYU]) because of all these schools, Princeton offers the benefit of full attention to the undergraduate student's academic/social needs. I visited during April Hosting. I honestly expected the whole preppy/WASPy stereotype but I found that Princeton students are very down-to-earth, friendly kids with similar interests. I didn't get the elitist vibe I was afraid of! Princeton kids are much nicer than you'd think. Princeton is also very generous. I'm getting just shy of $40,000 a year in grants. Princeton's no-loan policy DEFINITELY sets it apart from other respectable peer institutions.</p>
<p>Harvard, Yale, and Columbia are world-renowned, but it must be noted that their fame is in large part due to their GRADUATE SCHOOLS. Princeton's fame is almost solely due to it's undergraduate programs. Yes, Princeton DOES have a grad school, but it is nowhere near as big/famous as H, Y, or Columbia. Thus, the LARGE MAJORITY of Princeton's financial resources, attention, and academic instruction/advising is showered generously on the undergraduate students! :)</p>
<p>The undergraduate education @ Princeton is just such an amazing asset. Unfortunately, I've read and heard not-so-great things about Harvard's undergraduate education from various sources (books, online, actual alumni, etc.). Apparently, some professors are insulted with the mere idea of stooping to a low level to teach "intro classes." It's disgusting how unwilling the profs. @ Harvard are to teach undergrads. Conseqently, TAs end up teaching more courses and earning less than 1/3 of the salary a prof. earns (according to the U.S. News and World Rerport).</p>
<p>And finally, about the eating clubs. Initially, the eating clubs were an aspect I was confused about. From what I had read/heard, they didn't sound so great. Looking into them further, I see that they've really been blown out of proportion! Like someone already said in this thread, for half of the clubs all you have to do is sign in, with a group of up to 12 friends if you want, and then you're chosen through a random lottery drawing. The other 5 eating clubs are "bicker" clubs which is sort of equivalent to "rushing" into a fraternity/sorority. Frat life is not recognized officially by the University, but there are frats out there. I visited 1 or 2 of them during April Hosting. The frat scene is very low-key but it exists. As far as the eating clubs, I honestly cannot think of a better way to foster camaraderie and loyalty among undergraduates and alumni. It's amazing how GREAT and STRONG the Princeton alumni network is, and this is due, in part, to the bonds created and strengthened by the eating clubs.</p>
<p>Yes, Princeton and Harvard are ranked #1 on The US News and World Report (but you shouldn't let rankings be your "#1" resources ;)). I hope my post has been of some help! Good luck to you in making your decision! Congrats to all those who got in. I hope to meet you all in the fall!</p>
<p>Princeton Class of 2010! :D</p>
<p>-Jon :)</p>
<p>The standard party line, with the requisite Harvard bashing included to buck up Princeton's status.</p>
<p>Honestly Byerly, I initially presented Harvard as what it really is: a school with a big name due to its graduate programs. I went on to describe the negative aspects of Harvard's undergraduate education b/c the OP is a current high school junior who is considering both schools. The last time I checked, most high school students don't go directly from high school to grad schools. A very important step comes between the two - undergrad. The OP was interested in a comparison of the two institutions. I talked about the positive and negative aspects of Princeton as well. Just admit it Byerly, while Harvard has its well-deserved graduate reputation, it is undeniably a step behind Princeton in the realm of undergraduate education. ;)</p>
<p>The OP asks "What sets Princeton apart from Harvard?"</p>
<p>Not everything Byerly Hall dislikes is "harvard bashing"; in many cases, it's just answering the question the OP asked. To many, it's the student satisfaction that's the key difference. And there's no way you can properly answer the OP's question and place student satisfaction in context without comparing Princeton's student satisfaction with Harvard's. </p>
<p>APDoolittle used, among other things, such a comparison to illustrate his reasoning and to answer the OP's question.</p>
<p>Thanks CautiousPessimism, I'm glad you see that I wasn't just trying to bash Harvard to make Princeton look better. I was just providing my honest account based on my experience and research. For people to be offended or to see malice in that, is just ridiculous. I'm glad someone understands me ;)</p>
<p>Is it true that Jews avoid Princeton like the plague?</p>
<p>No it is the other way around. Princeton avoids racist mindset like a plague.</p>
<p>If you are a student and planning to apply, don't waste your app fee.</p>
<p>Dwincho--No it is not true that Jewish students avoid Princeton (and I must say that I did not like the way you stated the question). As I posted in response to another thread, the hillel site, <a href="http://www.hillel.org%5B/url%5D">www.hillel.org</a>, lists Princeton as having an approximately 14% Jewish population and that percentage has definitely been increasing in recent years. The school has had a kosher dining option for at least 30 years and Jewish students find Princeton extremely welcoming.</p>
<p>Dwincho's post may have been designed (and if it wasn't, it can still be used) to point out how ridiculous stereotypes are. The assertion that Harvard professors avoid undergrads like the plague is no less absurd than the assertion that Jews avoid Princeton like the plague. Yet Princeton supporters are happy to accept and embrace the first stereotype, while they react in horror to the second.</p>