What should students expect from parents?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Shortly after we had S and were thinking about having D, we purchased bonds set to mature when S reached 18 and Some maturing shortly thereafter. We invested a lot of our available savings. It was 9% interest and state tax free. We invested an amount sufficient to send both kids to flagship U instate including dorming all 4 years. </p>

<p>At the time we did it, we had just lost heavily in the stock market and wanted a safe place to park our funds. It worked well for us and let us sleep well at night, knowing that we could at least be sure we could offer our kids an education that would allow them to get decent jobs. </p>

<p>For us, it worked better to make that investment all at one time to allow for compounding and set our minds at ease. It was also a unique opportunity to purchase these tax fee bonds. We also started Coverdell accounts for each kid, which was of some help as well. </p>

<p>It seems very unfair to me that parents who have had the benefit of a college education will not help their children by providing at least the EFC for them.</p>

22

<p>Re: #20</p>

<p>Not surprising, given that hardly any of the students asking for suggestions in the “College Search and Selection” forum seem to have any idea of what their cost constraints are.</p>

23

<p>What should students expect from parents? </p>

<ol>
<li>Unconditional love</li>
<li>reading with them from a very, very early age.</li>
</ol>

<p>It will pay off when the kids are old enough to start thinking about college.</p>

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<p>Yea, even tho we gave both of these to our kids, we still needed cash
To help pay college expenses. :)</p>

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<p>@glido
That is exactly what I got, as a student. My mother and father do not expect to pay a penny more for me when I’m in college. Sure, they’ll let me stop by every now and then for a hot meal, but they believe strongly in independence. </p>

<p>No one had to tell me that going to a private school would land me 8k in loans, I read it on my award letter. No one ever had to tell me that it’ll grow to near 60k if I went to that private school. </p>

<p>I chose a state public school and saved money in the long run, because my mother taught me the morals of money and how it works. I think kids these days(I sound so old) don’t understand that loans NEED TO BE PAID BACK and there is no way to justify your parents love by how much they’re willing to pay for college. Some parents are just nice like that. Some kids just DO NOT NEED to talk to strangers on the internet to come to gripes about how much they need to pay.</p>

<p>Best to find a summer job or two and save up well.</p>

<p>@Himom</p>

<p>It’s kinda sad to think that my parents barely got their high school diplomas(or GED for my mother) and some of these claimed “college taught” parents have the brain of birds. My mom told me in middle school she was not going to pay for my education, and if she abs had to, nothing over 1k. I was taught to earn what I want, and if I couldn’t earn it, try harder or forget about it entirely. I say some of these kids that have 26, 28, 36 ACT’s need to look hard at their scholarship options before they whine and pout that they can’t afford top ivy schools. If you score THAT high, come on, try harder and look harder. Or find a job in your last moments of high school.</p>

<p>So what if you’re efc is more than 10000 and you wanna go to an ivy school. For the “college experience” and “to break out of home”. It takes more than just wanting, it’s the desire that drives. Look at every inch of this internet, stretch beyond that hs guidance office, and after you have done all that can be done, look at yourself seriously in the mirror and admit that you cannot afford something instead of holding up the remainder of the bill to your mommy and daddy. I just say, if independence is what some kids want, earn as much as possible yourself. And if parents aren’t willing to pay, suck it up.</p>

<p>Well, long story short of this post, if you’re act falls into the “not so great” range, don’t think your parents will butter you up with money if you do somehow get into a good college. No way any student with a short coming GPA will afford college unless they work their tails off for a way to pay, AND the maturity to say no to a dream they have(and go to community college). The same advice for high achieving students, but more on the scholarship/grant search I wish more kids my age had. Regardless of a parents’ income.</p>

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<p>Seriously though, if parents have an actual need and qualify for significant need based aid, then the child may be able to figure out how to cover the EFC on their own via loans and working. I’m sure it is NOT easy for the child, but perhaps it is doable. And it is also understandable why parents in that circumstance may not be able to help or help much.</p>

<p>But, it is impossible for a child, who comes from a background where the parents are earning enough income to where the EFC is expected to be full tuition or close to it, to cover that cost his or herself. It’s a ridiculous expectation. In this case, parents really ought to plan on helping . . .and they are capable of doing so. It may not be easy to do so, but it is generally an option unless some extreme medical emergency has come up or the parent has lost their job. Which argues even more for advanced planning - - in which case the college money would be safely set aside somewhere and would be available for when the child needs it.</p>

<p>“college taught” parents have the brain of birds." - post 25</p>

<p>Why do you say that? Because parents have a recognition that they brought their children into the world and in many cases want to give them the best start possible - - which generally includes a college education (not necessarily Ivy League, but a good education)? Because parents have an awareness that there are no good jobs for 18 year olds right now given the horrendous state of the job market? Because independence in the human animal is definitely a staged process and generally parents gradually withdraw their support in hopes that their child will be “free standing” around the age of 21 or so - - in a world that is a LOT more challenging and oriented toward knowledge workers than it has ever been in the past? </p>

<p>I get that your parents didn’t see it this way . . .and I can understand how fostering such independence probably has made you a very strong person in many ways. I admire that you seem to have embraced the opportunity to put yourself through school no matter how challenging. I suspect you got at least some need based aid from the college to help you out . . .but not everyone does.</p>

27

<p>The only thing I would add is that if the parents’ financial condition worsens dramatically while the student is already attending college, that they discuss the new reality with the student as soon as possible and that the student should go along with the plan, especially if there are other siblings in the pipeline who need to go to college.</p>

28

<p>^^^ Actually, that particular cloud might have a silver lining for a student. I lost my job in July 2010, six weeks before S1 left for freshman year, and did not find a new one until January 2012. He ended up getting Pell and other assistance he wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. He will graduate with a moderate amount of debt, but this will be partially mitigated by the college fund my parents started for him when he was a preschooler. We borrowed money, using the cash to fill odd holes with a view to conserving it as long as we can and paying a lump sum on the student loans after graduation with what’s left. He also got our state PROMISE scholarship as well as several departmental ones.
I don’t know how things will go for S2. He has grandparent money too, and has an outside chance of getting an athletic scholarship, but his grades are absolute dreck and I question whether he’s college material at all, at least right now. So I guess I would like to add to both parents and students that one size does not fit all. IMHO, parents should try to make things as equal as possible, but kids’ differing skills and abilities come into play, too. If resources are limited, some families may be more willing to sink money into college for a child with proven academic ability, and kids need to know this, too.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Perhaps he can start at community college to make up for existing academic deficiencies inexpensively? If he needs substantial remedial course work, community colleges are probably better suited to offer that than many four year schools.</p>

30

<p>Please forgive my rant - and feel free to skip over it if you are the anti-rant type.</p>

<p>Middle-class parents who have not saved a dime for their children’s education then declare that college is unaffordable are irresponsible. Parents make the decision to raise a child and have the obligation to prepare that child for functioning successfully in the world. Of course, there are exceptions such as prolonged unemployment or extreme medical expenses. However, I believe most parents in this category are generally either selfish or willfully ignorant.</p>

<p>Colleges expect parents to pay for college with past income (savings), present income and future income (loans). If parents have not established the habit of saving, they will struggle to allocate money from present income during the college years and cannot be relied on to help repay loans. It is challenging to find $500 in any family’s monthly budget and yet this will only generate $6,000 annually - not even enough to cover tuition at many commuter public colleges.</p>

<p>However, if a family simply puts aside $50 per month when a child is born, they will have in the neighborhood of $15-20k saved by the time college starts. By continuing to pay only $50/month during the four years of college, they will have accumulated an amount almost equal to the $500/month previously mentioned. Going this route however, will have established financial discipline and will allow for a manageable plan for repaying loans.</p>

<p>I have known too many parents who act like Congress and simply push the expense into the future by assuming unmanageable loans. If they were not able to find money to save in the past and they were not able to find money from current income to pay the bills, why do they believe they will have the resources to pay the loans in the future? </p>

<p>The answer should be far less about earning more money to pay the bills and far more about establishing good financial management and discipline.</p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus - This has crossed my mind. He’s a rising senior, so we still have time to decide.</p>

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<p>@marylandmom</p>

<p>In the situation of a very high, almost full tuition efc, it makes me wonder what job the actual parents do. It doesn’t matter if they do not want to pay in my opinion, since nobody in the damn world should have to pay for someone elses education unless they want to.</p>

<p>“It’s a ridiculous expectation. In this case, parents really ought to plan on helping . . .and they are capable of doing so. It may not be easy to do so, but it is generally an option unless some extreme medical emergency has come up or the parent has lost their job. Which argues even more for advanced planning - - in which case the college money would be safely set aside somewhere and would be available for when the child needs it.”</p>

<p>^^ </p>

<p>Just because they make a lot of money doesn’t mean it’s all ready to be used. Some wealthy people put money elsewhere-- stocks, housing, investments. It helps their money grow. And you have to admit, some kids on this board sound pretentious at the point where mom and dad close their checkbooks. And even if it is just sitting there, it is the parents final choice to use it.</p>

<p>I watch my mother gamble away thousands of dollars at the casino, and I’m not crying because she basically gambled away our efc. No, I realize she has her own life and so does my dad. I’m not crying when I see him buy drugs that could also equal my efc, or buy the beer he drinks daily. Or when he smokes his usual cigs and so does she. The fact is, “deal with it” is a much easier option than trying to twist someones’ hand behind their back with a kid going to college.</p>

<p>“jobs for 18 year olds right now given the horrendous state of the job market? Because independence in the human animal is definitely a staged process and generally parents gradually withdraw their support in hopes that their child will be “free standing” around the age of 21 or so - - in a world that is a LOT more challenging and oriented toward knowledge workers than it has ever been in the past?”</p>

<p>I say this is only true for those who didn’t work in high school(including myself). My friends in high school, that worked since their freshman year(also got good grades, in AP classes, got AP credit, some even did classes at the college down the street of my school) have no trouble finding work once they graduated then and plan on going to college. It was me who was being unproductive and not seeking out work during my years in high school. I focused too heavily on school work and did not work for myself like the lazy kid I was. Although I had good enough marks for most merit aid at my state college, most of it(to be exact, 95% of it) was merit-based. Need-base is out of the picture since my brother turned 24 over the summer and my parents make too much and take out far too many loans as stated by rmldad. But, it’s not for any of the college expenses I or any of my brothers had. Just for bills my mom gambled or cruddy drugs my dad bought.</p>

<p>My mom and dad did not expect any of her kids(4) to go to college. One tried and dropped out after discrimination happened to him each and every day(Early 2000’s). One tried and is STILL a freshman(he has connections though, been in college since 2009). Now, it’s my turn, and my mom and dad know how badly it went for their two sons, and, the logical thing, know not to invest much in me. Although my ACT is much higher than their 18’s and 19’s, my GPA has been in the top 10% of my class, and I did some community service, the risk is simply too high for them as I enter.</p>

<p>My mother knows nothing about saving, as every other night she makes her way to the casino and can gamble away a good 1,500 if she felt like it, or bills if she wanted to. Then beg for the money from my brother, who lives here, that works online.</p>

<p>College is a privilege, not a right(learned this phrase in middle school).</p>

33

<p>Sandi,</p>

<p>I’m going to be honest and say that I admire you for taking what I consider to be a very difficult and totally unacceptable circumstance and not wallowing in self pity. You sound strong and like you are going to make it one way or another despite the lack of family support. I admire your attitude and the fact that you have worked hard in high school to keep your GPA up. I suspect you will make the very best of the college opportunities that come your way. And, I hardly think you were lazy for not working constantly during high school . . .there’s so much to do as it is . . .and it’s important to enjoy life too.</p>

<p>I better understand where you are coming from when you see some children here who probably come across as whining even though their parents are giving them some significant support. I’m sure that does seem pretty ungrateful.</p>

<p>That being said, I cannot bring myself to agree with you that your parents are taking the morally correct approach. Yes, it is their money. However, no one made them have four children and having made that decision, I think parents are morally obligated to give their children the tools to succeed in life if they are able - - one of which (nowadays) is college. Sorry, but I think parents should put themselves second to the welfare of their children. Once those opportunities are afforded, some kids will just waste them and others will make the most of them - - and after that, the kids are on their own. However, I just can’t get myself to say that what your parents are doing is correct or reasonable even if it is “their money” and “they don’t want to pay for someone else’s education”. </p>

<p>So we will just have to agree to disagree about the proper role of parents for college-aged children. BUT, I do wish you the very, very best as you strive to reach your personal goals. I can totally tell that you will find a way, and having done it all by yourself, I am sure you will be a lot prouder of yourself and more resilient than my own children will be, at least initially. </p>

<p>I do, however, hope that my children will follow in my foot steps and ultimately pay it forward to their own children someday . . .and not just leave it up to them to handle alone. I personally had very supportive grandparents and to this day I am eternally grateful for the easy debt-free start they gave me in life.</p>

34

<p>Did any parents on here, when their darlings were born some 18+ years ago, ever think it would cost $60k per year to pay for a private university? I did not. My husband started buying savings bonds for the children we might someday have when we got engaged. </p>

<p>When the time for college comes, many of us are looking at retirement in the not too distant future and coughing up the half a million to put the two kids through undergrad may impact supporting ourselves in retirement. I think my kids would rather attend the more affordable school, so good old mom and dad will not be moving in with them in a few years.</p>

35

<p>The fact of the matter is that college is rarely one of the things that has to be provided, so few parents have to pay penny one toward higher education. A lot of the time, (enough of the time to make this an active industry), they do, many of them borrowing presipitously to do so. This wilingness to provide for one’s children has been terribly exploited by the college industry, and is what has been keeping it running as it has been. The day an 18 year’s financial are the ones used to determine what financial aid needs to be given, would break the backs of a number of schools.</p>

36

<p>"Did any parents on here, when their darlings were born some 18+ years ago, ever think it would cost $60k per year to pay for a private university? I did not. My husband started buying savings bonds for the children we might someday have when we got engaged. "</p>

<p>I did not believe it would go this far. I was in denial even as late as 10-15 years ago, figuring the bubble would burst. The parent and co loans are, in part, what is keeping this afloat. I felt that a lot of the smaller, expensive colleges would go belly up, and prices would have to be adjusted for most schools with the most desired ones able to ask whatever they want. I think the signs are there that some erosion is occurring, but much slower and not in the amount that I had figured.</p>

<p>I had hoped that DH and I would be able to keep up with such costs with our earnings when our kids became college age. But it’s turned into a complicated situation where balancing the well being and quality of life for many has to be weighed against the cost of going to a private school for one.</p>

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<p>(first post here, figured I might as well wade into this thread)</p>

<p>rmldad’s reply is spot on - though I think a lot of the issue with middle class parents is that when they went to school, their parents were able to pay for college with little to no planning. It isn’t that way any longer, and I suspect it will take another generation for the shift towards planning early for the college education of one’s offspring to be a normal part of having a child. </p>

<p>Dh’s parents (dad: logger, mom: stay-at-home parent) were able to pay for his state tuition out of pocket. My parents (dad: technical drafter, mom: waitress) didn’t value college and didn’t offer anything for my education so I had to take loans. When dh and I started our family, we limited ourselves to two kids because we knew that paying for college for two was affordable based on our careers (both of us: engineers). We didn’t know how much a state university would be 18 years in the future, but we knew that we’d be paying full freight and able to do it on our combined incomes. We never set up our 529 plan to fully cover the costs, but we’ve always been committed to covering their costs in full (and yes, I know there is a disconnect in there!)</p>

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<p>We do pretty well. My husband is retired from the army, has a nice pension, and has another full time job. With all the years in the army, I have very little retirement and we are trying to catch up. I ought we would be able to pay for any school in the country and our child one is an academic superstar. However, when the time came, it just seemed ridiculous to pay for price for Georgetown or Chicago. She just graduated from Pitt with zero debt. So far, zero job, but there is no pressure to get a job to pay off looming loan payments. We handed her little 529 over to her after graduation.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand. </p>

<p>More than half of students who graduate from high school today go to college. [College</a> Enrollment and Work Activity of 2012 High School Graduates](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.nr0.htm]College”>College Enrollment and Work Activity of Recent High School and College Graduates Summary - 2022 A01 Results) Of course, many do not graduate. But still, given that the majority do enroll, I would think that parents would expect that they would need to provide their children with money for college.</p>

<p>Obviously, I’m missing your point. Can you explain a bit more?</p>

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<p>Parental support might be limited to providing a place to stay at home and paying the tuition, fees, and books costs at the local community college – i.e. not much more than the cost of supporting a high school student. If the student eventually transfers to a local state university, the tuition costs would rise, but such costs are usually not as high as for private or out-of-state public universities, and the student may still be able to live at home for lower cost than if s/he had to live on his/her own at the university.</p>

<p>Based on California CC and CSU costs, a college student attending local CC and CSU would cost about $4,000 more per year than a high school student while at CC, and about $10,000 more per year than a high school student while at CSU (counting tuition, books, and commuting costs; not counting room and board and misc expenses that are assumed to be the same as for a high school student).</p>

<p>While not a trivial amount of money, it is nowhere near the costs people tend to see when they look at the $60,000 per year cost to attend a non-commuter private university. It is likely that a far greater percentage of parents can afford to let a student live at home and contribute $28,000 for the CC and state university than can put up $240,000 for the student to attend a non-commuter private university. And if the parent is willing to let the student live at home, but is unwilling to contribute more, the now-adult student has more job options, as well as Stafford loans, to put that $28,000 cost into affordability range.</p>