What sort of student chooses Harvey Mudd?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvey Mudd College
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<p>We are just learning about the Claremont Colleges and are trying to get a handle on the differences. My daughter has a strong interest in math and was initially looking at Harvey Mudd, but she knows that Pomona offers a math major as well and was wondering why students choose one school over the other if they are interested in math or science. Do most students who attend Harvey Mudd apply to Pomona too? If so, is there a sense that Harvey Mudd students didn't get in to Pomona or that they are turning down Pomona? We're trying to get a sense about how the students at both schools feel about each other, especially in the areas of overlap, such as science and math. Thanks for any help.</p>

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<p>Mudders, as they like to call themselves, are extremely strong in Math and Science. It is a fabulous college and women do have an edge as HMC is trying to increase the percentage of women. I don't get the sense that students apply to both - the heavy duty science/math students would apply to HMC. I know several alumni, and a couple of current students that are thrilled with HMC.
My son and I visited and just loved the college. My son sat in on some classes, and we both thought the faculty were fantastic. The students are extremely hard-working but also like to have a good time. We both had a wonderful feeling about the place. I'd suggest visiting, and arranging an overnight stay.</p>

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<p>neceph:</p>

<p>Pomona is the "old-school" all-around liberal arts college of the Claremont Collleges -- the Los Angeles version of Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd is the science/engineeering school and attracts kids heavily focused in that area -- kids who might otherwise consider places like MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, etc.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd and Pomona are both very selective, I would say that they are both equally difficult to get into. This year's USNEWS has Mudd, Pomona, and Williams tied at #3 for small college selectivity. Claremont-McKenna (the Poly Sci, econ, gov oriented college) is also very selective, tied with Haverford at #6. Scripps, the all-women LAC, is less selective, in the same range as east cost women's colleges like Smith and Bryn Mawr. Pfizer, the loosey-goosey artsy college, is less selective still, in the range with Sarah Lawrence on the east coast.</p>

<p>The Claremont Colleges are quite unique and interesting. With a huge LA endowment, Pomona had more money than they knew what to do with. Rather than grow as a university like Duke or Emory, they opted to expand by adding new colleges on adjoining property. So they added the woman's college, then the Claremont-McKenna, the the science/engineeering college. Each one remains a separate college as far as admissions and student body, however, they share infrastructure like libraries, security, building maintenence, etc. So today, you have five colleges with the total enrollment of a mid-size university (about 4500) in a fairly dense suburban grid setting about the size of Williams' campus.</p>

<p>I would consider these colleges to be academically the equal of their east coast counterparts. The real difference will be that they are very suburban SoCal in weather and ambience. An East Coast student has to weigh the benefits of a completely different regional culture versus the logistics of travelling to college 3000 miles away. For example, there would be about enough time at home for Thanksgiving to have a family dinner at an airport hotel before the return flight to LA.</p>

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<p>Thanks. That was very helpful. We're so far away from narrowing down the list of schools now that I just want to make sure we have explored all of the options. Right now, the "short list" includes Williams, Swarthmore, MIT, Yale, Brown and UNC, but if my daughter should come to the very possible realization that a New England winter is not what she wants, we may be looking west. I do understand about the travel difficulties. One of my roommates from Williams was from Salt Lake City, and we east coast types looked after her for the shorter breaks, so I was hoping the students at HMC or Pomona might be equally friendly.</p>

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<p>My daughter opted not to consider West Coast schools; however, if she had, Pomona would have been at the top of her wish list. I have put the bug in her ear about the semester exchange program between Pomona and Swarthmore. It would be a great way to break up a 4-year stint at an LAC with a change of scenery, but without the course selection headaches of many exchange programs since Pomona and Swarthmore offer essentially identical stuff.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd would be very high on my list for an engineering/science school. In many ways, the fact that it is part of a more multi-dimensional campus is a big plus, IMO. Academically, Harvey Mudd is as good as it gets in math/science/engineering.</p>

<p>The concern with any tech school is locking in an educational/career path as a 17-year old high school senior. A lot of science/math kids get to college and find out they really enjoy other courses more. I am getting hints of just that from my daughter and it was a strong theme among the five senior students who spoke at our Parents Orientation session. No big deal at a "multi-purpose" college. Just major in some other department. It IS a big deal if you enroll at a tech school and find out you really don't like math/science/engineering after all.....</p>

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<p>The strength of the Claremont Colleges consortium adds to the advantage of HMC versus other stand-alone tech colleges. Not only can students cross-register at the other Claremont colleges, but students can even declare an "Individual Program of Studies" or an "Off-Campus Major" should their interests change.</p>

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<p>questions:</p>

<p>1) Can students declare majors not provided by HMC but by other Claremont Colleges?</p>

<p>2) If your interest changes, will transffering within the claremont colleges be a no problem?</p>

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<p>Transferring is transferring. It's always a pain in the butt! Just like applying to college in the first place. If you have ANY doubt about a firm decision to major in math, science, or engineering, you are better off appying to a college that covers all the bases. There are many of these, including Pomona, that offer great science and math educations. And a few, like Swarthmore, that have solid Engineering departments, too.</p>

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<p>As a current mudder, I'd like to just add a few things...</p>

<p>-Yes, you can major at one of the other Claremont Colleges. It doesn't happen often, I don't think, but it does happen. You can also create your own major if you are so inclined. </p>

<p>-People here are extremely friendly. We all watch out for eachother and try to make sure that no one gets stuck in un-fun situations. </p>

<p>-Probably the best part of the multiple college situation (from my frosh, no-choice-on-any-classes position) is the multiple dining halls. </p>

<p>-The air quality here can be bad. There was one day when I looked outside and I couldn't see the hills that are only a few miles away. But only one day. It's usually not <em>too</em> bad, and it's definitely better than the heart of L.A.</p>

<p>I really didn't look into other schools too much, because I knew early in my sophomore year of high school that I wanted to go to Mudd, and I ended up applying early decision. So I really can't compare the atmosphere or workload to anywhere else, but I know my friends at other colleges didn't have the same instant comraderie that I felt with my classmates, and they don't have the cooperative academic atmosphere. Like I said before, we all look out for each other, in every way. It sounds cheesy, but we really are like one big family.</p>

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<p>I've a quick question: does anyone here know how HMC compares to the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology in terms of engineering? Rose is much closer to me geographically, and I'm trying to decide whether I should even apply to Harvey Mudd.</p>

<p>I know that Rose was ranked higher by the US News and World Report, but I don't know how much I trust them. And some other college books I've read seem to indicate that HMC might be more difficult. Looking at mean SAT's, the mean SAT at HMC is around 1500 or 1550. The mean at Rose was 1300 this year. What gives?</p>

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<p>phaxtiger:</p>

<p>transfering among the Claremont colleges could be tricky. The problem is that the schools are not at the same level in terms of admissions. Pomona is generally regarded as the hardest to get into as a freshman (although I'm a Pomona student so I guess I'm kind of biased) and I know the college accepted only 11 transfer students last year. So it might be kind of hard to transfer from one of the other colleges to Pomona. On the other hand, if you attend Pomona or CMC you probably would be able to transfer to HMC or Pitzer.</p>

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<p>i'm afraid i'll have to disagree with you, bigtom...</p>

<p>in all honesty, i know nothing about how challenging it is at pomona, but i know that mudd was at one point ranked #2 in the nation, behind caltech. as far as admissions are concerned, mudd may have a higher admission rate, but its a very self-selective group. only the people that SHOULD be there even apply. most people don't consider it, because it's a highly specialized and difficult school. on the other hand, people who apply to pomona may apply as to it as a "reach" school, because it is much like other colleges, but more difficult (i assume). i've often heard it compared to ivy leagues in many ways. </p>

<p>i think it would definitely be harder to transfer to mudd, but easy to transfer from here to one of the other schools (even pomona). pomona had 11 transfer students and mudd had 2. transferring anywhere is a tricky deal, and mudd has so many strict requirements that it would be a difficult feat to pull off, i'd think. </p>

<p>y2kwizard, i really don't know anything about rose hullman. but if you get any info on rose hulman and want to compare it to what i know about mudd, i can definitely do that. my suggestion: visit both. while you're there, attend classes, talk to profs, students, anyone. there's no better way to learn about a school than to visit it.</p>

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<p>As a member of the Pomona class of '03, I'll add my two cents: </p>

<p>Mudders are a quirky bunch... very friendly, and certainly supportive of each other. To go there, you have to be the kind of person who thinks that riding a unicycle is the height of coolness. Mudders are known for never leaving their computers except to eat, and-- sometimes-- party. Of all the Claremont kids, they are the most into things like Dungeons and Dragons, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, etc. In short, they are geeks. It's kind of neat, but I wouldn't have wanted to go there. It's definitely a unique environment, and unless you are certain that you'll enjoy that kind of place, I would suggest visiting before you commit to going there. </p>

<p>My friends and I used to walk around the Claremont campuses playing a game called "Guess Which School People Go To." We could almost always pick a Mudd girl (and often the guys too) out. The girls don't spend a lot of time on their clothes and hair, preferring the baggy jeans/Tshirt/hair in a messy ponytail look. I don't consider that a bad thing, but if you are a female who spends a lot of time doing your makeup every morning, you might feel like you don't fit in. The Pomona community is naturally more diverse in some ways, because it attracts people with all different interests. </p>

<p>Generally, though, Mudders and Pomonans get along, and I don't think that there is a lot of feeling that one school is "better" than the other-- they are just very different.</p>

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<p>Thank you for stereotyping Mudd so horribly. We are not all Dungeons and Dragons obsessed geeks, some of us do like makeup and clothes and hair, and if anyone knows how to party, it's a Mudder. While there do exist people like those you described, they mostly reside in East dorm, renowned for it's geekiness. Without a doubt, Mudd has made me more social, outgoing, and "normal" (however you want to define that). My friends and I occasionally get comments that we don't look like Mudd girls (whatever that means). So obviously, as you have made so wonderfully clear, there is a stigma going around that Mudders can't be into "normal" activities. But it is wrong. Yes, we do have unicyclers. Do I have any interest in learning to unicycle? No. Neither do any of my suitemates. Do I play Dungeons and Dragons? No. I wouldn't know where to begin. I had never even heard of it before last year. Do I still fit in at Mudd? Of course. And my friends here are some of the coolest people I've ever met, with the added bonus that everyone is intelligent (unlike high school). </p>

<p>Please don't stereotype Mudd that way. It hurts.</p>

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<p>Radioactivepb, </p>

<p>Alright, I do retract my statement about how thinking unicycling is cool is a prerequisite for going to Mudd. But I stand by the rest of my post.</p>

<p>I didn't say Mudders were ALL D and D fans, nor that there aren't ANY girls who pay a lot of attention to hair and makeup. I said it's more LIKELY to run in to such people. I have known people who visited Mudd as prospies and decided that although the academics interested them, the social atmosphere was not for them. I also dated a Mudd guy who was not as much into "typical" Mudd stuff, and he sometimes felt out of place. He had a hard time finding friends-- and I know that for the prospies readiing this board, the "will i fit in?" question is often very important. A lot of my post is stuff he told me, as well as things I observed. I appreciate that you have a different opinion, though-- you have more experience with Mudd than I do. </p>

<p>Of COURSE there are Mudders who are into different things... but down at Seaver Theatre, you will find many more kids from Scripps, Pomona, and Pitzer than from Mudd-- even when you take into account that Mudd is a much smaller school than, say, Pomona. I was in the 5C-wide advanced ballet class for a LONG time, and there were very few Mudd kids in the class during any semester I took it. Of course, that's a limited range of activities, but it's fair to say that fewer Mudders do theatre and ballet than people from other schools. I would say the same of CMC, actually.</p>

<p>The thing with stereotypes is that they're often based on a grain of truth. As I said, my friends and I would see if we could guess which school people went to just by looking at them. When we started doing it, I didn't think we'd be able to, but we were VERY often right-- and we had a higher success rate with Pitzer and Mudd kids than with Scripps, Pomona, and CMC kids.</p>

<p>I'm sorry if my post offended you, but the original question on this thread was about how students choose between Mudd and Pomona. I am simply giving my impressions as someone who spent 4 years at Pomona (and dated a Mudder). Like everything else on this board, they are only the opinions/experiences of ONE person.</p>

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<p>from knowing people that go there and visiting (i'm a prospective mudder), i'd like to give my input:</p>

<p>irene may be right that, generally, harvey mudd students are a quirky bunch. however, my impression from my visit was that there are much fewer "nerdy" people than you might expect. i think the real nerdy, socially-inept people don't tend to be smart enough to get into hmc.</p>

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<p>What sort of student chooses Harvey Mudd? The insanely brilliant who want to go to an insanely challening school. Allow me to define insanely brilliant and insanely challening: Legend has it (and this legend is quite possibly a gross exaggeration or outright lie) that only three people have ever graduated from Mudd with a 4.0. One of them allegedly went nuts and killed his family and then himself. Another is allegedly in an insane asylum. The third is now a brilliant and eccentric math professor at neighboring Claremont McKenna College.</p>

<p>As student at CMC, I know several Mudders and they all seem like nice and surprisingly socially competent people.</p>

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<p>thanks, guys, we are socially competent. i dont know what you consider 'typical' mudd stuff, irene, but i doubt im into it, and i have tons of awesome friends. i'm sorry to be stubborn about this, but i dont want you scaring away any really cool prospies by making them think that the school is too nerdy for them. mudd is an incredible place with a lot of character and all of the ppl (well, maybe not ALL, but most) are really cool. if there are any prospies out there reading this and don't know whether or not they'd like mudd, come and visit. get a feel for the entire place. don't limit yourself to your tour guide, your host (if you stay overnight), or anything. each dorm has its own personality, as do all of the people. dont be afraid to walk up to someone on campus and say 'hi, im <strong>(insert name here)</strong> , a prefrosh' and ask any questions you might have. "how do you spend your free time?" "do you even HAVE free time?" "what drew you to this school?" and anything else you can think of. granted, everyone will answer differently, but most will be enthusiastic and eager to help you see all the great things about this school.</p>

<p>i encourage you to do this with ANY school you visit, because the most important thing is to determine if the atmosphere is right for you, and the only way to figure that out is to talk to current students.</p>

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<p>It has been anecdotally implied here that HMC students (Mudders) are somewhat fixated on their computers and are not interested in other things such as the arts. Actually, Mudders make up over one-third of the Joint Music Program even though Mudd is probably the smallest college. More than one-half of Mudders are from out of state. About one-quarter are high school valedictorians. Many Mudders participate in the study abroad program. One of the most popular courses puts on a performance of a Shakespeare play every year. Mudders are also very involved in things as diverse as the Ballroom Dancing Club and varsity sports. </p>

<p>Yes, the college is off the charts academically as well as in the achievements of its graduates but it is really a very diverse group with a common love of math and science.</p>

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<p>I visited all the Claremont colleges . Mudd is ,hands-down, the nerdiest ,geekiest school i've seen(Harvard kids even seem ALOT more rounded). I ate in their caftrearia and talked to some students........yeah they're nice....but VERY VERY nerdy. In a way Mudd has its benefits for having focused, driven techies........but excuse this comment: the girls were ugly as hell and the guys were pretty dahm weird ---truth</p>

<p>**I am applying to Mudd, so don't let this discourage you......even though it's true. Their classes seem awesome and besides they're plenty of girls from the other claremonts and normal guys their too.</p>

<p>Mudd is a unique school....but try visiting before u apply..it's different from all the other schools i visited(Nerd CITY/ugly)</p>