<p>I haven’t read this entire thread so apologies if I’m repeating what’s already been said, but the tippy top flagship schools are often not good deals for oos students. My child (NY) was accepted at UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, Ann Arbor and UCLA. She received very little aid from any of them and ended up going to Vanderbilt, which was generous. Even though the Vandy sticker price was higher than these other schools, the cost to us was significantly less. I’m not complaining or criticizing these schools for not offering more assistance to oos students. After all, their taxpayers are footing a lot of the bill. But I think sometimes parents are under the impression that an oos public school will be less expensive than a private one. It’s true that the tuition might be less (though nowhere near the deal it is for in-state students). But the fa offers can be disappointing. (As I recall, Madison charged oos less than did many other flagships.)</p>
<p>^ that’s true for many with financial need, but not always the case for full pay families. Also be careful if that generous private school aid includes loans. </p>
<p>Doth of my Ds went to large state flagships. My oldest to our state U in the honors program. When she decided to go there in 2007 (before the economic crash) we got a lot of “pity glances” from parents in our town who thought she was “settling”. Only a handful of her fellow graduates went there. By the time my youngest was applying, three years later, a HUGE number of her fellow graduates ended up attending. It had suddenly become the place to be.
My youngest went out of state to a large flagship. Both of my Ds did very well in their major, got involved on campus and graduated (well, the youngest one next month!) with honors. Youngest D was accepted into several extremely selected grad programs.</p>
<p>The main reason that my girls wanted the state universities was because they WANTED a big school with a more diverse population than is usually found at the smaller privates. We have been very happy with both of their experiences, wouldn’t change a thing and are thrilled that between the two of them, there is very little to pay off in loans.</p>
<p>My main concern about Rutgers is the absolute size of the campus(es). 1200 acres intersected by a really busy highway, busing necessary to go from campus to campus, dorm here, classes there, 5 different student centers… Being “in-state” and having to endure the “shame” is not it. I think the education is great, have friends/relatives/neighbors who have gone, all very happy (for the most part, aside from the infamous RUScrew, but that’s another topic) and would have no problem sending any of my kids there. My oldest 2, didn’t attend but they did apply. In the end, we all talk about “fit” here ad nauseum, this particular public school is not the best fit for every tippy top student who has that option. Often, the merit aid somewhere else is a good draw for them to leave NJ, and that’s what happened with my family. Dd #3 coming up will surely have Rutgers on the list because it is a great educational value, but not a good fit for the kid wanting a small-mid-sized school.</p>
<p>Amanda: The infamous RUstyScrew…been like that since my father was an undergrad with Henry Rutgers!</p>
<p>And the Administration & Foundation Office wonder why alumni don’t contribute to the fund raising campaigns?</p>
<p>Has anyone ever posted about the “Harvard Hustle, the Dartmouth Dance($100 million donation received this week) or the UTexas Two-Step”? Nope, just the infamous RU Screw.</p>
<p>What is the RU Screw?</p>
<p>EllieMom,</p>
<p>Maybe I didn’t explain myself clearly. UWisc-Madison has an EXCELLENT reputation here. That’s why kids who want to go to the Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc., and have the stats to be competitive for admissions use it as a safety. It’s seen as a school that they can thrive and be happy attending if they don’t get into their reaches. Madison is known as a good, fun place to attend college. </p>
<p>It’s also known as a school that bases admissions decisions, at least for OOS students, primarily on the numbers. So, if you have high numbers you’ll be admitted. </p>
<p>Many students would prefer to go there rather than SUNY Binghamton or SUNY Geneseo. </p>
<p>^^^
Now, that makes sense to me. 
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<p>UWisc-Madison also has made allowances for lower GPAs depending on various factors they wanted…such as being a graduate of a respected public magnet. </p>
<p>It’s also a well-respected popular choice among Californians who couldn’t make it into their higher-tiered UCs, wanted a change of scenery/campus environment, etc. </p>
<p>UW parent here – my OOS kid’s OOS peers are smart, high achieving students from east and west coasts (plus a lot of smart MN kids). For east coast kids, it is an acceptable alternative when they don’t get into Michigan; for west coast kids, it seems to be the alternative for students who didn’t get into Berkeley or UCLA. There are no dummies at UW. It is a work hard, play hard environment with high-achieving kids. Not sure how far back cobrat is going, but definitely not the norm now. All I hear is about kids who were rejected with 3.5-3.7 range and 28-30 range ACT. </p>
<p>Kids with even higher stats are rejected from OOS at UW. Friend’s daughter was rejected this year, 32 ACT 3.8 u/w - all honors, AP classes, top 10%of class…very involved student- school sends kids there every year. GC shocked. I had to ask, ‘you sure she wasn’t waitlisted?’…nope. Flat out rejected. UW is an excellent school and I don’t think they are just looking at the stats of OOS students. I would never count on it as a sure thing/safety except for maybe the tippy top students. </p>
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<p>Did she apply before the priority deadline of November 1?</p>
<p>I haven’t read through the entire thread, so apologies if I’m repeating. I figured I’d give the perspective of a “top student.” I’m attending Brown next year. I live in MA, so my state flagship is UMass Amherst. I got in to the Honors Program but have not really seriously considered it. I did apply to some state schools as an OOS, but their cost is about equal to Brown and they are obviously much bigger (I like a smaller school). However, if I was in-state at any of the following places, I would probably be attending there since it’s such a great deal (no order): Virginia (UVA and William and Mary), North Carolina (UNC), Michigan (University of Michigan), California (UC-Berkeley), and Texas (University of Texas). </p>
<p>IMO most of the flagships will offer an excellent education for a top in-state high school student. I think on this forum many grossly underestimate how many top 10% of kids really do attend their in-state flagships. If you can afford to leave the state for a flagship as well as afford the cost of a top private then the issue is moot - go where you want. </p>
<p>Kids in our upper middle class suburb, grow up wanting to go to one of our big state u’s. It’s not a back-up. It’s a destination of choice. S1 graduated sixth in his high school class. Of the top ten grads, all but one ended up at (instate) big state u’s. The girl who didn’t go to state u. was an athlete (diver) who went to Columbia.</p>
<p>In my kids’ highly competitive selective admit HS programs, a good third of the students went to the flagship – many with merit $$. Since the economy tanked, that percentage has risen further. </p>
<p>I went to a large flagship and was in the honors program – my quibble was never with the quality of the courses. It was the social isolation of not fitting into a hard partying, Greek-intense, moneyed environment as a self-supporting student with no safety net (financially or emotionally). Some professors didn’t “get” that I couldn’t make it to student scheduled project meetings because I had to work from 4-8 every evening – and those meetings took place during that time frame so folks could attend social events later in the evening. That said, DH was in a similar boat at an Ivy had similar issues, so it’s not a specific criticism of flagships. Fortunately, many colleges have made it a priority to be more inclusive and supportive over the past couple of decades. This is good news for everyone.</p>
<p>As I said before so much of that depends on what subject the student is interested in. At the University of Oklahoma, the intro US history class relies on multiple choice fact based recall questions. There’s almost no critical thinking required. Even in the upper division history courses the professors often spend much of the time in class summarizing the readings. The papers assigned aren’t graded nearly as harshly as ones at Emory, and even the exemplary papers at OU would likely be considered merely average at a “top” school. Is this the case with all mid tier state flagships? I don’t know. Perhaps OU’s humanities programs are just exceptionally weak relative to its peers although I’m not convinced schools like the University of Oregon, KU, or University of Alabama are different in their approaches to some of the core liberal arts subjects. </p>
<p>Perhaps the lack of essentialness of prerequisites, and the lack of external accreditation with high standards, may allow a given department to water down the courses and curriculum to allow weaker students to pass, although it is not necessarily true that all such departments will do so, or will also lack more rigorous options (e.g. honors courses) for more motivated students.</p>
<p>Whenhen, I guess I’d be hard pressed to make such an assumption (that Emory is “better” than OU) based on hearsay about how difficult (or not difficult) a particular class or singular professor is. You can believe this to be true, but on the other hand studies have shown that outcomes from various unis are not all that different for smart kids and most smart, motivated kids aren’t going to waste their time with bad professors or watered down intro classes.</p>
<p>Temple has been overlooked on this thread. It is a public university in Philadelphia, which makes it an attractive “safe” or “match” school (academically and financially) for students who are looking at urban universities. The immediate neighborhood is a little sketchy, but Philly is a great city for young people - much more affordable than NYC, LA, DC, or even Boston, with a vibrant cultural scene. </p>