<p>I understand that there are quite a few parents, including my own, that hold this belief. My parents believe that if I do not get into a top college (the "lowest" they say I can go would be TUFTS), I should just go to Rutgers, the state college of New Jersey. Therefore, they have not let me visit any potential safety schools, or even many match schools.</p>
<p>What is your take on this philosophy?</p>
<p>My take is you should take this into your own hands and look into safety schools and match schools. </p>
<p>College admissions is such a crapshoot that nothing is a guarantee.</p>
<p>If they are paying, it's really a matter of what they are willing to pay for, as unfair as it may sound.</p>
<p>If you are looking at top schools, you can also look at less selective schools with significant merit aid. One of the vals at my son's hs will be attending Conn College with about $135,000 in total scholarships. Grinnel is also generous with aid.</p>
<p>My D did not get into her top choice school but got into her 2nd choice Pepperdine with no money. She also got a free ride to the Honors Program at her state school BUT she wanted small class sizes, personalized interactions with professors, a residential college, a close knit community so she opted to go to USD with a half scholarship. For her it would not be worth it to go to her state school and be a number in the crowd. She did not want lecture halls with 200 plus students. This is such an individualized issue. My S is at Pomona and both students will have about the same out of pocket cost. Is his education going to be better then hers, not necessarily, it is an individual decision.</p>
<p>In some circumstances, this point of view makes sense. I myself am of this opinon because our state school is UNC-Chapel Hill. Assume an ambitious North Carolina resident can't get into an Ivy or top LAC; she can get an excellent education--some would say better education--at UNC than she could at a lesser, second tier school such as Wake Forest, Elon, Richmond, etc. at a fraction of the cost. For other states--Virginia comes to mind--the same argument holds.</p>
<p>wake forest is a lesser school? tell that to us news and every wake forest student.</p>
<p>At the risk of perpetuating ancient but pointless ACC rivalries, I'll just say that surely even Wake Forest students know that Wake is a lesser school than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, M.I.T., Williams, Swarthmore, Brown, Penn, etc.</p>
<p>But not lesser than UNC - right?</p>
<p>I have to admit that my husband felt the same way. His and my alma mata, SUNY Binghamton, considered by many New Yorkers to be the "ivY" of the NY State schools (of course, ivy is an overstatement), ---but it really is a very good school. When my D was trying to come up with safeties, and showed him that part of her list, he felt Binghamton would give an equal or better education at a fraction of the cost. And in her case, she was not focusing primarily on LAC's, so she would have been comfortable with the size. So, after visiting her other chosen safety and really not liking it, she agreed that Binghamton would serve as her safe school.</p>
<p>Sometimes, it makes sense to take the "basics" at the local state school & then transfer to a "great college" after showing your great college record. My brother did that because our dad said he couldn't afford 4 years at Stanford. Brother transferred after 3 semesters at local U & graduated with honors from Stanford after attending school there for 2 years, came back home & worked & took some classes & applied to med schools. He got into ALL the schools he applied to, including UCSF (which he chose) over Harvard & JHU. Has had a great career as ophthamologist.</p>
<p>It is an economic decision that needs to be discussed. It would be good to talk with your parents about WHY they have said top only otherwise state college. If it's an economic decision, ask if you can apply to schools where you're likely to gain admission & substantial merit aid because that can be the same price as local U & give you the experience away from home & college atmosphere you may desire.</p>
<p>Part of the problem (from a parent's perspective) is that we may be looking at a lot more than 4 years of post-HS education--with over 4 years of college & some grad school. The costs really add up.</p>
<p>I went to state U for a year & then went on our school's exchange program & then applied & was accepted as a transfer student to the school I had been on exchange at. That's yet another option of how you can start at state U & end up somewhere quite different. </p>
<p>My cousin's son elected to go to state U & was able to go to Spain for summer after junior year to satisfy his language credit. The state paid for his entire education, including the summer in Spain! He saved his family enough money that parents could retire when they wanted instead of continuing to work for years repaying his debts.</p>
<p>I agree with the philosophy as a general matter. The difference between the experience at, and diploma from, (a) a good but non-elite private school and (b) a flagship state U, is generally not worth 100,000 hard-earned dollars.</p>
<p>But the rule is riddled with exceptions. For a very wealthy student, the price of a private is no object. For a poor student, need aid will pay most of the freight at any school, public or private. The private school might grant merit aid. The private school might offer a major or program not available at the state school, making comparison meaningless. The state where the student lives might have a sub-par state U, making the state school option less attractive. The private school might have a religious orientation that the student and his family feel strongly about.</p>
<p>So, for a good student, the way to go is to apply to a range of publics, elite privates, and non-elite privates that are promising for special reasons.</p>
<p>I know of a parent with that philosophy. They told their son to look at top schools (GWU is no good-even though it's the father's alma mater!) or he goes to UF where he can get significant merit aid and into their honors program. Oh, Tufts is fine for them but the son didn't like it.</p>
<p>For my family, it was a bit strict not to even consider GWU! My mother did want me to consider state schools but I refused to look because I needed more individualized attention and smaller classes, therefore, smaller schools. That was for economic factor.</p>
<p>I went to a state school for 2 years, got all As and then transferred to Tufts with full fin aid(tuition and room free). When I applied as a freshman I only recieved 1/2 finaid at Tufts with the same FAFSA. I felt I learned nothing at the state school, it was basic and easy and then I missed out socially at Tufts as I was put in a very small all girls dorm at the edge of campus and had all my classes in Boston all day. That experience has influenced how I view my kids decision and has made me not push either of them to take the great offers by their state schools. It is a stretch for us financially and a sacrifice and may prove to not be the best decision. Both kids are going on to grad school but we will play it out and see. Probably both my kids will send their kids to state schools, lol.</p>
<p>As I live in California, land of incredible publics, I can definitely relate to this notion.</p>
<p>However, how "low" you'd go (on the prestige scale) for an OOS private vs. your in-state public is a very subjective decision that everyone will see differently.</p>
<p>For a variety of reasons it was clear that my D belonged at a LAC. We believed her education and her social experience would not be nearly as good at a large state school. But we also knew she was UC qualified and likely to get in to a UC. So the question was, where would the line be drawn, when the alternative in state, though larger than optimal, was so excellent in reputation and offerings AND less $$?</p>
<p>Basically this is a completely subjective decision. Many parents--but not all-- would see Williams or Swarthmore as a viable choice over UCB (where she was ultimately admitted.) Fewer would approve choosing Smith, Vassar, or Kenyon. Fewer still Skidmore, Beloit, or Goucher.</p>
<p>We basically had a family pow wow and decided that she would not apply to any schools for which we would definitely not turn down a UC acceptance.</p>
<p>Because of our strong conviction that the class size & intimacy of an LAC would have a MAJOR impact on her learning & happiness, & because we felt the OOS experience had inherent educational value of it's own, our imaginary "line" might have been drawn a lot lower down the selectivity scale than most families' would have been.</p>
<p>I certainly agree with arizonamom and others that lots of factors are at play (including social, including the motivation of the student in question & willingness to work or pay loans, etc.). However, I think that some parents may be looking at the value component -- & not just in terms of "name" recognition, but the actual content of compared programs between private schools. There are private colleges in my region which charge the same fees as HYPS but are frankly glorified community colleges in terms of student body & curriculum challenge. In that case it would definitely be better to attend a quality State U (or quality community college!) & transfer in to an even higher-quality Private, i.m.o. And 2 yrs in a strong program at a recognized Public will be so much more of a boost to the transferring student in making that transition than the $80,000 of an extended-high-school style private college.</p>
<p>Yes, OP, it should be the applicant's choice, ultimately, if that student is willing to pay, or pay the difference between the State and the private on her or his own. But I see no problem with discouraging or advising against that choice, depending on the quality of the program, profs, etc. being chosen.</p>
<p>the OP ought to look at applying to some colleges that are ranked slightly below those the parents would accept in hopes of merit/scholarship money. Many colleges will "discount" their price to attract a student of the caliber to get accepted to a more highly regarded school. This can come in the form of either merit aid, or a more lenient interpretation of financial need. So while it may not be worth the full sticker price for those schools, at some price it becomes a compelling deal.</p>
<p>I don't know, it just runs counter to my own experience.</p>
<p>I went to a small liberal arts school which was by no means top-tier. But it had a unique environment, great faculty, small classes, an intense honor code, and was in a different part of the country. I met people with diverse backgrounds from all over the country (and world). I feel that place really shaped me and my worldview--the people I met, the values it esposed, the relationships I had with faculty and the administration.</p>
<p>The state college I could have gone to instead? Well, I took summer school there, so I had some sense of its culture. My dad was on the faculty for 30 years, so I wouldn't disparage it, but it's a very different place. I am sure I could have gotten a solid education there, but it would have been a far different experience. I really think that for someone like me, it was worth the time, trouble, and expense to go to a small woman's college 700 miles from home.</p>
<p>The fact that private college tuition is going up at an unheard of rate has made this a very different question than it was 20 years ago when private schools didn't break the bank for the middle class. It will be interesting to see going forward what the demographics at private schools are.</p>
<p>To the OP: This would be a great strategy if you lived in a state with great public schools (VA, CA, MI, NC), and had an EFC that was significantly higher than the cost of the state schools. I had pretty good numbers, and applied to a variety of top schools. Due to my dad's self-employed status, we weren't sure about what kind of finaid I'd receive. In april, I received a handful of waitlists, along with acceptances to UVA, Georgetown, UChicago, and Rice. My best financial aid award was $29k (Rice). UVA was $16k. The only school on my list I could have justified paying $30k for was Princeton (where I applied ED and was deferred and then waitlisted.)
In retrospect, I should have applied just to UVA, princeton, and a few other the ultra-elite hypsmc-type schools. In UVA I had a great backup school that was within the range of what my parents could afford, while offering superb academics.
HOWEVER, if I lived in a state like New Jersey, I would have easily been able to justify paying a good deal more to go to a good school somewhere else in the country. Rutgers does not sound like a great place to spend four years, especially if you're smart/intellectual.</p>