<p>There have been some recent threads comparing acceptance at top public schools with acceptance at an in state school and wondering if the extra cost is worth it. I have to admit I am biased in that I feel it is not since it is my belief that most of the students from each state that go to school in state are fairly equal and there is a limited pool of top students from out of state- not enough to really change anything substantially.
Here on CC the top colleges are Cal 9% oos, UCLA 6%, Michigan 28%, NC 16% and Virginia 33%. I looked at the SAT scores and in state costs at the public schools in Pa., NJ, Georgia, Illinois, Maryland, Ct., Wisconsin, Minnesota and Florida and I have to be honest I do not see the value in the extra cost. The 2 states with fairly high in state costs are Pa and NJ and the additional cost to attend NC, the least expensive for oos is still $40 to 45 for the 4 years. I would bet that the in state NC kids are no better academically than the in state kids at Rutgers and Penn St- does the 16 % of oos kids at NC really bring the school to a different level in comparison to Penn St and Rutgers. If you compare the costs to Fla, Ga and the other states it is even more costly. If a kid from Fla wants to go to Michigan it would cost about $120k extra. Granted Michigan does have a large oos enrollment (28%) but to the vast majority of kids(72% at Michigan to the 97% of kids at Fla. is there really any academic difference- are the in state kids at Michigan really smarter than the in state kids at Florida?</p>
<p>Some depends on the student's home state, however, in my opinion, there is not much to be gained by attending a public university out of state for an undergrad, if there is a good in-state university, or a decent in-state university with a quality honors program.</p>
<p>Most of the prestige surrounding top publics (Berkeley, Ann Arbor, Madison, UCLA, etc.) is based on quality of grad programs and on research done on campus, not on the undergraduate classroom experience.</p>
<p>Save your money and go to your home state public university. If you want to improve on that, look at a top LAC.</p>
<p>Again, just my opinion.</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>Wondering about U of Texas at Austin (as out of stater) -- in their well-regarded comp sci program -- vs. in-state in NJ at Rutgers U?</p>
<p>Hard to calculate the pros/cons/$$/future-benefits...</p>
<p>Being in Florida, I agree. Is an UNDERGRAD degree from UMich worth that much more than an UNDERGRAD degree from UF--probably not-especially if you can't really afford it. UF is a great deal. Many here in Florida go instate for undergrad, and have no problems getting in to prestigious OOS grad programs. Going to UMich for undergrad and incurring $120,000 in additional expenses/loans? Not so smart if you need more cash for grad school. Some would argue to go UMich for undergrad then back to UF for grad school. Maybe. But I think the other way around may be more cost effective, since grad schools tuition will often be offset with stipends, TA positions etc. Now that is not true for med school, law school etc. But you can really get a great education staying instate for undergrad and grad/professional schools. </p>
<p>And the instate kids at Mich are not any smarter than the instate kids at Florida. A state with a much larger population might have a few more really gifted kids, but overall, I don't think the state of Michigan is doing that much better a job than the state of Florida at the high school level. 2008 College Board stats show Mich 502CR 515M 494W and FL502CR 515M and 494W EXACTLY THE SAME.<a href="http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2008%5B/url%5D">http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2008</a></p>
<p>As far as the NC state publics go there is a significant difference within the 16 campuses. If you are referring to UNC-CH vs. many of the smaller schools and less rigorous to gain acceptance than you need to compare apples to apples. The NC schools have a long history and vary greatly. Some were started as teachers' colleges, others as engineering schools and several others as HBCUs and still others as small liberal arts colleges (and remain this way today). The same can be said within another state's public systems (CA), between the UCs and the state system (SDSUs, Chico and Humbodlt).</p>
<p>Making such a sweeping generalization as whether to attend OOS public vs. in-state is overlooking each individual student's needs and wants.</p>
<p>UNC Wilmington's marine biology program is one of the best so this would be a great option for someone in a state where this major might not exist, specifically one so strong. This is just one exam[le amongst many. </p>
<p>There have been numerous threads where many of the OOS publics offer scholarships to OOS students in the form of OOS tuition waivers in addition to additional monies for the remaining in-state tuition plus room and board. This in-turn would make those OOS publics more affordable than many in-states. </p>
<p>In addition some schools OOS tuition (NC) is still cheaper than some in-states.</p>
<p>I think this comparison needs to be done with specific school to specific school, with OOS tuition being "part" of the overall decision. So UGA honors vs. UNC-CH...and money counts...UGA. Specific school not OOS vs. in-state.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>I think the OP is comparing TOP instate with TOP out of state institutions. If one is accepted to UMich, they are probably not comparing that to UNC Charlotte.</p>
<p>Other than UMCP, Maryland's state U's leave a lot to be desired. (And when UMCP is the best any state has to offer, that's not sayin' much.) </p>
<p>Plus, the University System of Maryland has frozen in-state tuition for the 4th year in a row. How do they make up for lost revenue? Admit more OOS kids and fewer instaters. </p>
<p>Getting accepted to a Maryland public is not a "given" for instate kids. So they almost have to apply OOS. And, if given a choice between Towson, Delaware, or JMU (3 commom comparables around here), Towson is certainly the least appealing. Bleh.</p>
<p>Even when we're not talking about the top publics, there can be good reasons to go OOS. For instance, our state flagship is University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. It's a very good school, but it's not inexpensive. There is a surcharge for engineering, business and life and physical sciences that brings the tuition up quite a bit. When I do the math, my D could go to Wisconsin for only about $5K a year more. If she preferred a really nice college town (Madison) to cornfields, we'd be willing to pay that extra $5K, especially since Wisconsin is closer to home than UIUC. Indiana and Minnesota OOS aren't that much more than UIUC in-state, either, so if there was a reason D wanted to go there, that would be fine. There are other OOS publics that are generous with merit aid where D could go for less than the cost of UIUC, and still others where the total cost OOS is less than UIUC. I attended an OOS public for law school because it was a top 10 school, and it was well worth it.</p>
<p>I think you are going to get a lot of 'it depends' from this group.</p>
<p>Struggling with a similar question, but it is going to come down to my D's decision. UMCP is our in state flagship U - will cost us around 21k/yr - it is quite competetive to gain admission now. My D has been admitted to UMCP, but not to their honors program, either due to the major she declared, or the fact that it is so competetive. The overall location of UMCP is only OK. Venturing off campus can be tricky, especially if you are female. Housing is not guaranteed all 4 years. Our friend's nephew was stabbed to death at an off campus party there only a few years ago (not by a student). So, you can understand my hesitation to send my D to UMCP, though it is a respected university.</p>
<p>She has also been admitted to University of Delaware's Honors Program with some merit aid. Over 4 years, this will run us around 32k more than UMCP would. Delaware is not as competetive to get into, but the campus is nice, seems like it might be good fit for my D, it is smaller than UMCP, and off campus housing would be somewhat safer. The town is also very walkable.</p>
<p>When compared with some of the small LACs that she has been admitted to, which are not top LACs but quite nice, U of D with merit aid and the LACs with merit aid are coming up close in price. </p>
<p>So, if my D chooses to attend a large state U, I am OK with her choosing Delaware. Had she not received honors admission and some merit aid, she might have a hard time justifying U of D as a choice.</p>
<p>To complicate matters further, we have a nice in-state public LAC called St. Mary's. I am having trouble justifying the other LACs against the price and amenities of St. Mary's. Over 4 years, the difference will be 16k to 28k compared to some of the other LAC choices.</p>
<p>If all things were equal though, it really doesn't make sense not to go in-state. But, things are not always equal.</p>
<p>"Wondering about U of Texas at Austin (as out of stater) -- in their well-regarded comp sci program -- vs. in-state in NJ at Rutgers U?"</p>
<p>That's a textbook case of a waste of money IMHO. First of all, the UT comp sci program is well regarded for its grad program and research primarily. This does not necessarily transfer down to the undergrad experience. Rutgers undergrad comp sci program is nothing to laugh at. Secondly, assuming you can get into UT out of state (increasingly challenging with the 10% rule), why pay $40,000+ at UT vs about $13K at Rutgers for what may be an equivalent education?</p>
<p>There may be other reasons to go to UT. For example, you want to live in Austin, rather than in Brunswick. Or you want to cheer for a big-time athletics program. Picking UT based on the presumed prestige of the grad comp sci program is a mistake, again in my view.</p>
<p>There's a difference in selectivity among various state schools. In California the state schools are tiered with the UCs geared to be more selective than the CalStates for example. Andd then within the particular UC or CalState system there's further selectivity such that schools like UCLA/UCSD/UCB are very selective with other UCs less so and certain CalStates more selective than other CalStates. The end result is that some of the state universities in California are substantially more selective than many state universities in other states which raises the caliber of the student body at those schools and hence the caliber of those graduating. California is able to do this partially due to the substantial state population but also the way the state schools were chartered.</p>
<p>While some of the other states also have top students attending the state schools the same school might also have far more mid-level and lower-level students also attending the same school so the overall caliber of the student body is less. Some of these state schools have established 'honors' sections within the college to appeal to the higher performers.</p>
<p>I am talking generally about the State flagships and in some cases the second more technical schools such as Va Tech, Ga Tech etc.</p>
<p>I also agree that there are some instances where the oos cost may not be significantly different so it may not matter. But what if it is $10k a year or more?</p>
<p>pumpkin65 be careful Delaware has also had problems with off campus crime including a coed murder by a non student.</p>
<p>tom, I don't think it is worth it, with a few exceptions. If you have a child with superior stats and they are offered an honors program within a large U and merit money to go with it, it might be a great deal. Also, some students will qualify for certain awards at an OOS public and you should know what you will qualify for before you apply (ie: U of Miami in OH is one example I think, if they are the ones with the "gateway scholarships"). It was worth it at just a year ago to consider some SUNYs, but now they are more expensive than our NJ instate costs. Another exception might be the U of Minnesota, which is charging just 4k more for OOS students than what instate tuition costs.</p>
<p>We're happy with our in-state option (Penn State) and the honors college makes it even more attractive. That said, if my s got into UVA - I'm sure he would have lobbied very hard to go there. The business school program at UVA is quite a bit better than Penn State's. </p>
<p>We know a neighbor who sent her d to UVA for Engineering over PSU and is paying a LOT more. She's happy with it and it's their choice - but it's interesting because PSU has a very strong engineering program and they were offered significant merit aid which would have really cut the costs. </p>
<p>I remember a regular poster on the PSU board who was unhappy that he didn't make it into UMICH. He did get accepted as a transfer after his second year and after attending, it was interesting to read his posts about the differences in the environment (he was a business student). Bottom line, not THAT much different and he was paying MUCH more. Some of this is just prestige I think. The PSU brand doesn't carry much prestige in some circles...</p>
<p>tom 1944,</p>
<p>Sometimes OOS publics offer a major that is not available at even the top in-state public, or offer a program that is very well-known (e.g, Univ. of MO School of Journalism). </p>
<p>Also, there are many states in the west or western mid-west that are part of a multi-state consortium, or that offer in-state tuition rates to OOS students who meet gpa and test score criteria, or that offer in-state rates to students wishing to major in fields unavailable at the flagships of their own state (generally these require reciprocity agreements between the states).</p>
<p>So, as with most things, "it depends". We have told our hs junior that in most cases, we will not agree to finance an OOS school just because it is somewhere else, but there are some programs we don't have here, and she (and we) are considering them.</p>
<p>My son, then a Maryland resident, was admitted to the University of Maryland with no merit or need-based aid and to the University of Delaware with a merit scholarship that would have brought his cost of attendance down to that of attending Maryland. He did not qualify for Maryland's honors program, and he did not apply for Delaware's honors program because he thought it was too restrictive and liberal arts oriented for a person with a technical major.</p>
<p>He chose Maryland, but I see no compelling argument against choosing Delaware in his case.</p>
<p>I must say, though, that although my son chose the University of Maryland, quite a lot of Maryland residents go to Virginia, Pennsylvania, or Delaware state schools instead. Some of them do so because they don't want to live in the borderline slum that is College Park. Some of them do so because they didn't get in to the University of Maryland at College Park, and attending a big sports school in another state, such as Penn State or Virginia Tech, is more appealing than attending any of the lesser schools in the University of Maryland system. Some of them do so because higher-quality programs in their specific major are available at the out-of-state schools (such as the undergraduate business program at UVA). And some of them do so because the other states offer types of colleges that do not exist in Maryland (there is really no equivalent to William and Mary in Maryland or in most other states, for that matter).</p>
<p>There can also be non-academic reasons for attending another state's flagship state university. For example, quite a lot of the out-of-staters at the University of Maryland at College Park are Jewish students, who were attracted to that campus at least in part because of its thriving Jewish community. Their home state flagship schools may not have offered the same extensive opportunities for involvement in Jewish student organizations and activities that Maryland does.</p>
<p>I think Virginia kids have to really be creative to come up with a reason not to go to one of the state schools. They are in a unique situation. I grew up in Virginia and my dream school was UNC, but my parents could in no way afford it so I had to "settle" for William and Mary - not much to cry about there and I loved it there. I am now in Maryland but my D goes to a state school in Virginia because there is no comparable undergrad program for her major in Maryland.</p>
<p>It's interesting to hear of so many Marylanders applying to Delaware--I know a lot of Delawareans applying to UMDCP! Most of the population lives in northern Delaware, often within 30 minutes of UDel, and there are no other academically rigorous in-state options (we have one other public U and one CC). I wish I lived in Maryland or Virginia so that I would have a public LAC fallback--SMCM is more selective than UMDCP, and probably offers a better quality education given the cuts at College Park.</p>
<p>I am in NJ and quite a few of our HS students go to Delaware. After a year several transfer to Rutgers or TCNJ due to the difference in cost.</p>
<p>My sons are engineers and while one of the instate schools is OK for their major they both left the state. One is at a public OOS. He has always wanted to live in the pacific northwest and feels that it will be much easier to get an internship in the region from the local schools who have forged relationships with the companies in the area. I have always felt a lot of engineering hiring is regional in nature. I supported his move and he did get enough scholarships to where I am only paying 4K a year in OOS tuition so I can't complain at all.</p>
<p>I think the statement neglects the schools that give merit money to OOS students and the desire of students to live in other parts of the country.</p>