What though the odds be great or small - Chance a Notre Dame hopeful!

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Notre Dame
1

<p>Hello everyone..I'm sure these threads are bothersome but I would really like to know if I am a competitive enough applicant for EA. Notre Dame has been my dream school for as long as I can remember (been there countless times, father/sister attended, parents got engaged/were married there - you get the picture). So if you could, please chance me honestly and feel free to offer other advice/suggestions. Thanks in advance:]</p>

<p>NOTE: my schedule will probably not seem impressive, but it was either the toughest or nearly the toughest available .</p>

<p>PROFILE
Caucasian Male (rising senior)
Region: NE Wisconsin
School: uncompetitive public
GPA: 4.0 UW (our school does not weight GPA)
Class Rank: 1/312 (tied with ~15 others for first)
Potential Hook: legacy (father)</p>

<p>ACT Composite: 33 (MAYBE retaking in September - should I bother?)
English: 36
Math: 33
Reading: 34
Science: 29 (ugh)
Combined E/W: 31 (8 writing)
PSAT: 196</p>

<p>FRESHMAN
Spanish I
Honors Language Arts 9/10
Geometry
Physical Science (intro chem/physics)
Biology (not usually offered to freshmen)
Intro to Social Sciences
Required PE class</p>

<p>SOPHOMORE
Spanish II
Honors American Lit/Comp
Adv. Algebra/Functions, Statistics, Trig (Block class)
Honors Chem
Human Anatomy & Physiology
World History (could/should have taken AP Euro)
Required PE class</p>

<p>JUNIOR
Spanish III
Advanced Composition/Public Speaking (each 1 semester)
CC Precalc (could not take precalc/calc I block due to scheduling conflict)
AP Biology (5)
Physics
APUSH (5)
Required PE class</p>

<p>SENIOR (REGISTERED)
No Spanish IV (could this hurt?)
CC Expository Writing
Honors Economics
CC Philosophy (will take on private college campus)
CC Latin I and II (will take on private college campus)
CC Calc I and II (will take on private college campus)
Planning to independent study CC Chem</p>

<p>*Originally planned to take AP Physics senior year but it was eliminated
*Only other challenging science course not covered will be CC Human A & P
*School does offer AP Calc II but no Calc I/Calc II block</p>

<p>EXTRACURRICULAR (weakest part of application)
Varsity Cross Country (9, 10, 11, 12)
-3 time sectional qualifier
Varsity Track and Field (9, 10, 11)
-3 time regional qualifier
Summer Running/Weightlifting program
-Lead stretches and provide assistance to others in high school weight room
Metro Math League (11, 12)
NHS (12)
Science Bowl Team (11, 12)
[Nominated for] American Math Competition (AMC 12) (11, 12?)</p>

<p>AWARDS
Cross Country Most Improved Award (9)
Cross Country Varsity Letter (9, 10, 11)
Track and Field Varsity Letter (9, 10, 11)
Should I include running awards not associated with school?
Certification in CPR (May 2010)
High Honor Roll (9, 10, 11) Got some medallion thing for 20+ academic points
NOTE: School does not hand out other awards</p>

<p>LEADERHIP
Cross Country captain (12)
-Lead stretches before practice
-Organize team events (pre-season canoe outing and pre-race dinners)
Invited to attend National Student Leadership Conference (100 percent meaningless?)</p>

<p>VOLUNTEER WORK
Summers 2009/2010
National Railroad Museum (80+ hours)
-Conductor
-Inventory Assistant
-Facilities maintenance</p>

<p>2008 – present
Student Assistant (tutor) at high school (15+ hours)
-Student Resource/Math Resource Center assistant during lunch periods</p>

<p>Referee/Timer at local middle school track meet (5 hours)
Helped out at GB Cellcom Marathon WPS Kids Run (3 hours)
Helped raise money for Malawi Well Project (3+ hours)</p>

<p>Essays: good (possible to override weak ECs?)
Recommendations: good--->excellent (from AP Bio/APUSH/English/Precalc teachers). Maybe from professor at private college.</p>

<p>ADDITIONAL PLANS
Volunteer at local hospital/church
Applied for job at local store</p>

<p>OTHER
Intended Major: Biochemistry
Planning on pre-med.
Planning on applying for an Air Force ROTC scholarship.</p>

<p>OTHER COLLEGES
-Duke (ED - because it will be a miracle if I get in anyway)
-Vanderbilt (RD) if not admitted at Duke or ND
-Marquette (EA)
-MAYBE Northwestern (RD) if not admitted at Duke or ND
Feel free to chance me for any of the schools listed above if you can. </p>

<p>One more thing: will ND take into account the fact that there are VERY few (if any) research facilities and other opportunities for impressive ECs where I live?</p>

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<p>Hey, domer! I’m the same way, both my parents went to ND, so I’ve pretty much bled blue & gold since birth. Having a sister who went there will help you too!</p>

<p>With ACT scores like that, I wouldn’t even bother retaking them. You’re WELL in the ND range, so they couldn’t possibly hold you back. Obviously your class rank and GPA are perfect too, so no worries there. Despite the fact that you go to an “uncompetitive public” school, I think that the fact that you’re a legacy and you have outstanding ACT scores and grades will be enough to get you in. Just make sure your essays are unique and I think you can feel confident!</p>

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<p>couple of things:

  • don’t mention CPR - nothing really special there and don’t mention that you lead stretches at a track meet - anyone can lead prescribed stretches … now the fact that you organize other events is extremely impressive, stretching not soo much</p>

<ul>
<li>you are either lacking confident in yourself or ND is not really your #1 … the reason being is that if you had confidence in yourself, then you would think you would get into Duke (which from what I see would be a strong possibility even early decision) OR ND is not your top school because if ND was your top school you would not apply to any other school early decision b/c that means you wouldn’t be able to go to ND if Duke accepted you</li>
</ul>

<p>you look to be in solid shape for any of the schools you listed and I would not recommend going ED to Duke if you really want to go to ND b/c I can easily see Duke accepting you early decision (not a guarantee but a definite possibility).</p>

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<p>Thanks to both - I was not expecting such positive results.
@bmm2015 - Best of luck!!..even though we will be competing against each other :slight_smile:
@hawkswim09 haha yeah I’ve had a few others say the same thing about the CPR - I probably won’t mention it on the real thing.
And yes - I do lack confidence, its been a problem all my life and has become increasingly worse after being on CC for a while haha. But I feel like Duke is soooo tough to get into (not that ND is any easier, but at least I have a hook) and that being accepted to Duke would mean I was destined to go there haha, even if that meant giving up the dream of ND.
The truth is…Duke and ND are tied for my number one choice. ND has the tradition and sense of belonging, while Duke has the research facilities that might better prepare me for my intended career. But if you (hawkswim09) think I actually have a legitimate chance at Duke, then maybe I’ll have to start rethinking entering into a BINDING decision with them, especially since I don’t even know if I can afford an education there. As a student at ND, what do you think are the best methods of paying for ND? If I receive a full tuition AFROTC scholarship, then I’m set, but otherwise I’m screwed. My parents are willing to contribute ~10K - 15K per year, which leaves me with about 35K+
And how heavily are ECs weighed in the ND application process?</p>

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<p>really Brian you can’t tell who i am ??</p>

6

<p>^^hahaha no I TOTALLY knew it was you MASON…didn’t you catch my not-so-subtle hint about signing up for courses at a local private college (St Norbert) to make up for our school’s lack of course rigor.
And since when were you a captain on our track team??</p>

<p>Also…“Yeah i was thinking of retaking it in September to try and get it up a point or two”
Is this true? Whatever happened to “ehh, I don’t think I’m going to retake”</p>

<p>oh and you still have to chance me :)</p>

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<p>haha i meant to put captain this year/next year since i didn’t know if we were considering it to be next year already and i accdenally put this year and next year lol !! But idk i just put it since it could happen. Yeah i’m thinking of retaking it just because a 32 seems low for everyone else on here lol</p>

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<p>Congrats on a wonderful profile! With your legacy status, you should have no problem getting in! However, if you don’t receive the ROTC scholarship, I am very concerned about the level of debt you would take on with medical school around the corner. Think long and hard about that. Concerning Marquette, they do not have EA. Concerning finances, their tuition is about $41,000 but they will give you a TON of money to attend. I have a daughter at ND (senior) who was acceped to Marquette and their offer was very enticing. Times were different 3 years ago and we decided to forego the money and pay for ND in FULL without any scholarships or loans. It has been a struggle and I am not sure we would make the same choice today. ND is incredible but I am not sure it was worth it. You will have a great college experience wherever you go. Please really take into consideration the finances as those loans will be with you LONG after the college experiences are gone.</p>

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<p>^ well as a friendly rebuttal to your point, per a current researcher, ND ranks 9th on college returns, so yes it costs a lot, but you get your money back b/c of the ND diploma … but if money is an issue, then it would be an issue at both Duke and ND which again may pose a problem if you are bound to Duke and have to pay more to get out of that agreement … i suggest that you apply for local scholarships and some nation - if you search hard enough, you can get several 1,000 scholarships a year which adds up.</p>

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<p>@momtofour: thanks for the post! If I’m accepted to ND, then I will be faced with a similar decision. My parents have assured me I would also receive tempting offers from Marquette, so now they’re really pushing for it. Unfortunately right now it seems as if my college decision will be more of a financial one…which is rather sad. But I KNOW I would be MUCH happier at ND. Also as hawkswim09 noted, wouldn’t a degree from ND or Duke (even with a lower GPA) make me a more competitive applicant for future jobs, since my employers will not know I was given scholarships from Marquette?
One other thing I’m concerned about: ND prepared my sister SOOO well for the PCAT that she scored in the 98th or 99th percentile. How can I be sure Marquette would prepare me just as well for the MCAT?</p>

<p>@hawkswim09: a large portion of our local scholarships are not based so much on academic merit…so I’m not sure how many of those I could receive. And I know its not your responsibility, but do you know of any national scholarships that I might be competitive for?</p>

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<p>i know there are some like the Dunkin Donuts Scholarship and there are others if you search on google … there are some random ones you can get to like for being a certain nationality or things like that - your guidance counselor should also be able to help out there</p>

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<p>domer16, you are an outstanding student and will continue to be so. With your proven dedication, you most likely would be very successful academically at any institution. You can handle the rigor of premed and most likely will be just fine with the MCAT. It will come down to a choice as far as how much you want to put yourself in debt. Many decisions in life are driven by finances… here is one of your first. ND is special and very different from Marquette. (I am a Marquette grad as is my husband…I am 3rd generation legacy!) My daughter didn’t care for the urban campus, the fact that her profile was so much higher than the average attendee etc… She felt at home at ND. And she has loved it. But as her parent, and knowing the many expenses that are ahead of her, I do wish we would have saved that $90,000 and sent her to Marquette. We would then be in a position to buy her a car and give her a huge chunk of money for a down payment on a house. All with no student loans. Just my opinion. She would have been well on her way. </p>

<p>As hawkswim09 noted, ND ranks really high in the future earnings department. But you are in a different category in my opinion. You want to be a doctor. I think ND will be great for getting into medical school but in my opinion your earnings will be tied to the specialty you choose. I don’t know if there is a correlation between the earnings of a doctor and their undergraduate choice. </p>

<p>Tally up what you feel you would need in loans for undergraduate and graduate, and use some online calculators. See if the specialty you want to be in can handle that debt load. There is not a wrong choice here as we all view debt in a different way. Just be more than aware of what you are taking on. </p>

<p>For sure, with your outstanding record thus far, you will do just great!!</p>

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<p>@hawkswim09: Thanks, I will def consider those and search for others.
@momtofour: Thanks so much for the words of encouragement:] I guess I don’t need to include MCAT prep as a complaint…though I realized I actually have many of the same complaints with Marquette as your daughter. It is also waaaay too close to my parents (about 2 hours) and would make me the first of 5 children to attend college in Wisconsin…ughhh. But I will admit the situation you described for your daughter had she gone to Marquette does seem incredible. Plus unlike ND Marquette offers biomedical engineering, another field I have been considering (main reason for Duke U).</p>

<p>For the financial aid packages, I probably will not receive much since we are TECHNICALLY capable of paying for ND (income of about 100 – 110K per year) but my parents have decided to teach me responsibility by allowing me to cover the 35K difference with my annual salary of $100 - $200. So nice of them. Needless to say the loans would be overwhelming…and my parents recently told me about a friend of theirs who was still paying off college loans at 47 years old!! So that kinda put things in perspective. I do consider myself lucky, however, that I can include such a fine school as Marquette on my list of financial safeties.</p>

<p>Do you know of other colleges like Marquette that would be willing to provide similar scholarship money? And also could you suggest an accurate online calculator for tallying up what I would need in loans from ND and Duke?</p>

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<p>hawkswim, when you said you would think getting into Duke would be a strong possibility for me “even early decision” it seems like you think I’d have a better chance RD. Do you think this is true? Because then I’ll definitely hold off on that application and focus on ND. </p>

<p>momtofour, I think I received a PM from you, but when I tried to open it, my computer used a pop-up blocker to block it. How do I access these?</p>

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<p>domer16…I did send you a pm. Isn’t there something on your computer to delete the pop up blocker?? Sorry… I am really computer illiterate! Anyone have a suggestion to help domer16??</p>

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<p>well all i am saying is that the whole early decision thing is tricky b/c: </p>

<p>while Duke knows they can use you to fill a spot in their application pool, they also realize that if they admit you then that holds up a spot and they may want to see what the RD pool looks like before they reserve a spot. That is why it is sometimes easier to get in ED (b/c it shows interest and they can lock you in if they choose) but it is sometimes harder for those people who are the line of being competitive with most RD fields (not that you are in this position, but they don’t want to reserve a spot and then regret doing so if a more qualiified applicant has to be denied b/c of space) — this is always a tricky balance for both the school and the applicant. </p>

<p>just a quick question - if you only get accepted ED does your application go to RD?</p>

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<p>domer16, go to finaid.org. It is a little overwhelming but you will be able to get an idea of loan repayments. You will need to do some investigative work to familiarize yourself with the various loan types. I know little about this subject but basically you would start with Stafford loans, then get PLUS loans. You’d want to stay away from private loans as the rates are very high. Perhaps others can chime in here with info/ideas. </p>

<p>Concerning other schools, I am surprised you are not considering UWMadison. Great school, with an outstanding reputation. I believe you could attend for about $20,000. Fantastic choice for you in my opinion. </p>

<p>If you want to go the private route, aim for schools where your profile far exceeds that of the average student. Saint Louis U is another one that will give you alot of money. (still more than Madison though…) Jesuit, urban, similar to Marquette. Iffy area. Check out their website. One nice thing about them is that they will admit you as a freshman to their medical school if you meet their standards. Takes the pressure off of you for later. </p>

<p>Take a look at DePaul, Loyola more middle of the road type schools. They want strong students like you.</p>

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<p>@hawkswim: If I am denied during Duke early decision, then my application “will not be reconsidered under the Regular Decision process.” I’m leaning heavily towards RD now haha. Should I go Pratt for BME even though my ACT is at the bottom of their 50th percentile range?</p>

<p>@momtofour: good suggestions - I actually looked into SLU and was pretty intrigued, especially because of the chance to be admitted into their med school as a freshman. For some reason though, my parents think I should focus on research and forget about med school altogether (I disagree) so they still don’t see SLU as any better than Marquette. But I think its still worth looking into. As for UW-Madison, I’ve never really envisioned myself at a school that large (even though they are ranked top 25 for biomed engineering) because I would really value the closer relationships I could build with professors at a smaller university. I never really considered DePaul, but I did look into Loyola for a while and still consider it a definite possibility - especially because of its location in Chicago. Another school I’ve been thinking about is Butler…but I’m not sure how strong their BME program is or how much money they would give me. (I should probably mention BME would be my intended major if I do not attend ND or Duke’s Trinity, but I would still plan on going pre-med) After a little research, I discovered that Marquette is actually top 40 for BME and allows students to do BME research internships abroad, which is impressive. We will be touring there in August, so maybe my opinion of the urban campus and its location will change for the better:)</p>

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<p>What are your track/XC times?</p>

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<p>domer16, glad to see that you are looking at your options. Be aware that at Butler you are also obtaining a degree from Purdue. (GREAT engineering school…) Be sure to ask admissions if this means more time in college. But, I bet you will get some really nice merit aid! Also, Indianapolis is home to Eli Lily and Roche Pharmaceuticals…great internship possibilities!</p>

<p>Concerning Marquette you probably know they are building a brand new engineering building that will be ready August 2011. My son is looking to attend Marquette and major in mechanical. I think they have a pretty solid program and GREAT coop program. </p>

<p>SLU’s engineering focus is really aeronautical. We toured in November and I believe that the engineering school is really small. Check with admissions as to enrollment in this school if size is any concern to you. The building is super small. (Not to say that the program isn’t just fine…) But that admission to med school is quite sweet!</p>

<p>Have you looked into Rose-Hulman? Small engineering school in Terre Haute? Very well regarded. Probably a great launching pad to other opportunities upon graduation. </p>

<p>With a degree in BME and going into research, don’t you have to go to grad school?</p>