<p>My son is interested in math and computer science in college. As he is starting to look at different colleges, what are some good questions he should ask of the math and computer science departments that might help him determine the quality of their programs?</p>
<p>Heh, I'm not sure what whether we asked the right questions. But you can start by asking where the grads go. Carnegie Mellon SCS even showed us a graph of GPAs and starting salaries. Even the poorest students did pretty well! My son approved of schools that started by teaching Scheme rather than Java. Most computer science departments seemed to have pretty comprehensive websites - you can certainly get a good idea of what the professors interests are, how interdisciplinary the departments are, and to some extent their personalities.</p>
<p>Thanks, mathmom. That helps a lot. Great ideas. DS is taking a JAVA class this summer with a university that offers summer programs for high school kids. The instructor sounds like a terrific resource. It should be a good opportunity to start deciding if this is truly the direction he wants to take and to help him develop a good sense of how to find the right college for him.</p>
<p>Hmmm, I'm probably overthinking this but you may want to start with your S's area of special interest. Computer Science is like Biology -- one topic, many disciplines. An individual interested in programming computer games will want a very different CS environment than someone interested in weather analysis or facial recognition (i.e., biometrics) or distributed processing or information technology or corporate IS management or medical imaging analysis, etc. And if he's interested in hardware then the college's Electrical Engineering department will be important too. JMHO, and as I said above I'm probably overthinking this. Good luck!</p>
<p>Great thread topic..thanks for starting it. I also have a son who is interested in computer science and computer engineering. What is the difference between the two disciplines? He seems to like solving hardware problems-he's always building computers and tweaking them to make them process faster. He built several computers out of old parts and had a distributed computing project down in the basement. </p>
<p>At this point he doesn't have the stats for something like CMU, but he's very bright..what kind of schools should we be investigating? He says he'd like to go to the University of Washington, but I think he might be happier at a smaller school. I've heard good things about RPI; has it gotten crazy-competitive yet?</p>
<p>Thanks for raising this question, and thanks for the replies already received. I would consider it a plus for a computer science program to require more rather than fewer math courses to gain a computer science major. </p>
<p>I hope other people will jump in with more helpful replies; my son has this interest too, and I don't know much about it.</p>
<p>The difference between computer science and computer engineering are slight in some schools and vastly different in others. I suspect it depends in part of the department's origins. Some evolved out of math departments while others out of electrical engineering. You should know, however, that computer science/engineering goes beyond the programming that most people associate with it. My husband is a computer science professor, and he always bristles when people assume he teaches students how to use Powerpoint and program in Java script. Instead, he creates novel solutions to existing problems, whether through hardware or software. (Hardware is often the realm of engineering, and algorithms/software the realm of computer science, but again, the division isn't always clear.) </p>
<p>NewHope33 makes some excellent points about fit within a given university's departments. What does your son really want to study? You should also determine whether a given school is more grad student oriented than undergrad, as some excellent grad programs don't measure up for the undergrads.</p>
<p>RPI was on Newsweek's 25 New Ivy's list last year and it had a much lower admit rate this year - my recollection is that I was told it was around 45% this year. WPI hasn't yet been discovered though. It's smaller, but has sort of a similar feel to it. RPI and WPI both put more emphasis on practice and less on theory than MIT and CMU and probably Stanford. RPI has "The Incubator" nearby which is used to encourage new high tech start-ups. RPI also has a nice program and clubs for game development if that's an interest. A number of programs we looked at have cross-disciplinary options in AI and robotics. There are a number of other places your kid might look - other places that got mentioned to us when we began the search: UCSD, Rose-Hulman, Case Western Reserve, U of Rochester, Rochester Institute of Technology. On the more reachy end (probaby too reachy if CMU is too reachy: MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Rice, Harvey Mudd, Olin.) I'm sure I am leaving lots out.</p>
<p>mathmom--you left out University of Illinois at Urban-Champaign (UIUC.) One of the top 5 CS schools in the country, by many measures.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone. More great ideas! I don't know much at all about the field of computer science either. My husband is a computer programmer/analyst, which helps some, but as I understand, as has been mentioned, computer science is different. It sounds like a field that would be a good match for our son. He's VERY into math now and I could see how the field would be a good fit for him. He's very logical and yet very imaginative about problems and solutions. Anyway, he's also likely able to be accepted at some very good schools - probably not top tier - but very good. A challenge in that respect is that, for some very good personal reasons, he wants to stay in the midwest, stay small, and find a good fit. Choices are a bit more limited then. Some possibilities that have popped up are St. Olaf, Carleton, and Cornell College. He's already talking about graduate degrees, so perhaps he can look to a larger school by then. We would like to help him find a good undergraduate match.</p>
<p>I don't know much about this, either, but I know that my school has a bunch of computers reserved (and accessed only by username and password) for computer science work. It makes sense that computer science majors should have easy and priority access to computers that have whatever they need to work with on them.</p>
<p>I really wish, when they first started the Computer Science field, that they had arrived at better terms. Computer Science at one school can be vastly different than CS at another.</p>
<p>At UIUC you can major in 'Math and Computer Science' in the college of LAS, or Computer Science or Computer Engineering in the College of Engineering. Obtaining a degree in the College of Engineering means you'll have to meet base engineering graduation requirments, e.g. introductory chemistry, physics, math, etc. If you major in LAS you'll take more math and more humanities to obtain your degree, and less science. Some very bright 'computer people' aren't up to the science.</p>
<p>At UIUC Computer Engineering is a computer-oriented Electrical Engineering degree, focusing on digital electronics and including but not overemphasizing computer programming. Computer Science emphasizes computer programming and deemphasizes circuitry.</p>
<p>I think the best way to figure out which major to take is to look at the kinds of jobs grads get. Contacting the placement office might be one way to do this.</p>
<p>Another thing to do is go to each college's web site and examine the course requirements for the various degrees or concentrations. You will be able to see where the emphasis is in each field.</p>
<p>Of course, if you don't know yet what they mean by courses such as "Data Structures" or "Computer Architecture" (and even more arcane-sounding math classes!) you may need to ask current CS, CE, or math majors what the heck they DO in their major courses, and what they plan to do after college.</p>
<p>Have you looked at Rose-Hulman? Small, in the midwest, undergrad only, great reputation. Carleton has very strong math. Case Western offers good merit $$ to kids with good grades and stats.</p>
<p>I have a DS who is also looking at math and CS. For his interests, he is finding that some math departments will cover the CS he wants within the math dept. (or at least they are cross-listed). It helps if your S has a sense of whether he wants to go towards the engineering side (hardware), programming side (software/web development), AI, robotics, or the theoretical end of things. Some schools may focus on different areas and be very good at what they do, but it helps to match up the school's emphasis with your S's interests (and make sure there are options if he gets there and realizes "This is not for me!"). </p>
<p>Most of the schools's websites give a pretty good idea as to how they lean, especially after you've read a few and figure out the lingo. Look at what the colleges say about job placement -- you can usually tell if their emphasis is on getting kids into good jobs or preparing them for grad school or research careers.</p>
<p>DS read the websites, visited a few places over spring break, and sat in on classes wherever he could (he contacted profs in advance). Was also able to talk to some profs and advisors. People were happy to accommodate him -- a couple of profs sent him homework (!) so he'd have an idea what was happening the day he visited. The biggest hurdle is getting the kids to take that first step and ASK!</p>
<p>For the poster looking for a midwest location for computer science major, check out Oberlin College near Cleveland. It has only undergraduates, so there is the complete attention of the professors. Last year, 3 students won Goldwater scholarships , the highest national award for undergrads, and presented at national conferences. They are guided towards summer research jobs so that they have this dimension ready for grad school applications. I don't really know this field, so of course it sounded impressive. Oberlin is particularly good for providing scientific studies within a liberal arts setting, for a well-rounded intellectual foundation. </p>
<p>Also, remember to look beyond the major, wherever you tour, to consider the college environment as a whole, including chances to befriend others with a wide range of ideas from other academic majors.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Also, remember to look beyond the major, wherever you tour, to consider the college environment as a whole, including chances to befriend others with a wide range of ideas from other academic majors.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Great advice! Part of what I enjoyed about being at college was the chance to get to know people who were not in the same major as myself. It was a great opportunity to learn new perspectives and new ideas.</p>
<p>Thanks also for the suggestions of Rose-Hulman and Oberlin. Those did pop up as possibilities, but they are a bit too far beyond the range that my son would like to travel (no more than about 300 miles from the central Iowa area).</p>
<p>Someone wrote to me privately and gave some more suggestions, and I will share those with you all:
1. How available is research for undergrads?
2. Do the professors have research grants that allow them to hire undergrads?</p>
<p>You're in IOWA! Definitely look at UIUC, then. My son was amazed at the number of kids from your (far-off, midwest) state, until I pointed out it was only the next state over from Illinois. Right.</p>
<p>My S could answer your questions about UIUC research but he is not here for the summer--he's interning for Microsoft. UIUC is one of the campuses they recruit from.</p>
<p>I do know he has been doing computer work for a graduate student's research. He gets paid by the advising prof, not the student. I have no idea what he actually DOES, you understand. If he ever told me, it didn't register before my uncomprehending eyes glazed over. :D</p>
<p>Although I don't know your son's stats and therefore what is within his range, your geographic limitations seem to narrow it down to UIUC and UWisc/Madison. Northwestern might be another possibility.</p>
<p>I knew I was leaving something out. :) We didn't focus much on the midwest.</p>
<p>Hey, thanks for the school recommendations! Sorry I wasn't more specific - he's also wanting to stay small for undergrad- a small LAC rather than a university is his preference. On his list of possibilities so far are Carleton, St. Olaf, and Cornell College (he really likes the idea of one-course-at-a-time.)</p>
<p>Mommusic - funny about the glazed look! My background is health care, so when I hear husband and son discuss programming stuff, I'm sure I get that same glazed look.</p>