wHAT TO DO WHEN DEFERRED TO 1ST CHOICE

Parents Forum
41

<p>I’ve sent many kids to Colgate for many years, and they’re not turning down many double 800 kids, so I’m wondering what’s up. He’s certainly in a competitive pool but I’m not thinking that’s it.</p>

<p>Does his school rank? I’m wondering, officially or not, where he falls in his class. Is Colgate popular at his High school? Did anyone at his school get accepted ED? I’m assuming no disciplinary problems and good teacher/counselor relations.</p>

<p>I would have your counselor call. You can often get a very good read this way. That’s your first step and something a private counselor can’t do for you. If you don’t get an answer you can work with, then maybe a private
counselor to review your DS’s application, especially if the rest have not gone out yet, is in order. Ask people you know for references, in affluent communities a surprising number of families will have used one. Your high school counselor will often know who her students have used.</p>

<p>I really encourage you to revisit the essay for other schools- make sure it conveys why he’d be a strong addition to any class. Good luck!</p>

42

<p>" We had thought the school was a low reach/high match and hence the ED option even though FA is an issue" - Perhaps you can use the extra time to get estimates on FA. There’s no point chasing this one too hard if it won’t be affordable.</p>

43

<p>

</p>

<p>He did apply ED (and was deferred). Also, Colgate’s common data set indicates that “level of interest” is “not considered” for freshman admissions.</p>

<p>The “very important” factors are rigor of secondary school record, GPA, and rank. “Important” factors include test scores, essay, recommendations, extracurriculars, talent/ability, and character/personal qualities. “Considered” factors include work experience, volunteer work, and several demographic factors.</p>

44

<p>skeir29- I agree with others who said that a call should be made to admissions to probe what the concern may be and what additional information they would be looking for. Possibly, they just don’t see him as a good “fit” or as others said he does not fill some perceived notion of diverstiy. While I understand your desire to do everything possible to get him in to this 1st choice school, I actually think you’d be doing your son a favor by helping him to move on emotionally and get excited about his other choices.</p>

45

<p>SKIER, </p>

<p>It is funny that one of my skier friend’s D taught my DD how to get off the waitlist of which she got it off one year earlier.</p>

<p>Know nothing about Colgate, but in my DD’s case, she was waitlisted from her first choice school in the RD round. Here are few things both girl did:</p>

<ol>
<li>Prepare a series of events that will produce added value to your application. Events like good mid term grades, some awards that you did not send in the first place which you think they were not important, new volunteering jobs that are engaged after application is submitted or forgotten, some non-eventful EC’s etc.</li>
<li>Research the school well, so that if you goto the school, its like you are already a student there.</li>
<li>Send those events one at a time with a very pleasant cover letter every week to the adcom, just to show your love. Basically, you just want to remind the adcom your existance and this school is your first choice. Its like to keep the stove warm and show your love.</li>
<li>Go visit the school and try to arrange to talk to whoever wants to listen. Department head or professor or adcoms, music department if you have been in the band, coaches, if you are athletic (even you will not be recruited). This is to promote yourself.</li>
<li>you must show your dedication and acting as a sales person who is not afraid of put up a fight for a seat in that school.</li>
</ol>

<p>I think we did all the above and got off the waitlist of this highly selective school. Both girls are doing very well. The D of my firends just graduated and she had her jobs lined up from coast to coast and will be working for a major investment banking firm in SF soon.</p>

<p>Good luck and I think you owe me a lift ticket…:)</p>

46

<p>BTW, in the previous post, when I refer “you” meaning your D, parents should not be involved in the activities described.</p>

47

<p>skier- I’ll echo an earlier comment, what is your school’s admissions history with Colgate? Do you have naviance and if so how does your S fall on the graph?</p>

<p>My older D was accepted to Colgate, which has accepted 34% from our school during the naviance data timeline. However, the average GPA from our school is quite a bit lower than overall. I think part of this is that our school is known by colleges who know it well as rigorous. I would get a copy of the school profile that goes out to the colleges, if you decide to use a private counselor, get feedback on the profile.</p>

<p>My older D was deferred from ED and EA schools. Our counselor did call both admissions people and shared with me the feedback he received. The EA school said her essay was on the weak side, which was true as she rushed it at the last minute. The ED school said it was primarily demographics and couldn’t point to anything weak in the application. She did include later grades obviously, and an additional teacher rec that was from a different area, and notes to both schools with her continued interest. She was waitlisted at ED but accepted at EA.</p>

<p>I also notice on our naviance that we have had many waitlisted at Colgate. If you can find stats to how many they defer and deny in the ED rounds, that might help you put the deferral in perspective. Also with Colgate being Div 1 I wonder how many athletes are accepted ED.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

48

<p>I think his application looked great! I’m not sure there is much he can change about it. Who knows why they deferred him but I’d ask his GC to call and see what caused this.</p>

<p>Honestly, since you’ve said that FA is a big factor, this might be a blessing is disguise. Have your S regroup, apply to some other schools and now he can compare FA packages. There are other Patriot League schools to apply to that have need based FA and see if he is admitted. Bucknell and Lafayette are 2 great possibilities, with maybe Lehigh. They do want him to visit if he hasn’t yet. </p>

<p>I am also suprised he wasn’t admitted, the FA might have been one of the possibilities. Just grasping at straws though.</p>

49

<p>Hi Skier29, </p>

<p>Send in the semester grades and then a snap shot of the grades again in mid February. To get in as a deferred student, you really need to be on top of it and pro-active with the school. Send in one more teacher rec as well. I wouldn’t add a new activity because I’m afraid it might look insincere, but I do think a truly heartfelt letter describing why he loves the school so much is in order. He needs to stand out as the kid that is going full force to get admitted. Send in the AP 5 as well. Also, follow the advice of the other posters and concentrate on the other schools now.</p>

50

<p>I don’t have that much more to add, but I do have a slightly different take on this.</p>

<p>Like others, I am pretty shocked your son was not admitted ED. Colgate is very popular and very selective, but it doesn’t see many 1600-SAT kids ED, and a 92 GPA isn’t “low”, especially in a demanding curriculum/good school.</p>

<p>What that suggests to me is that something significant was wrong with his application. Not that he is white from the northeast, or doesn’t have that many community service hours. I’m talking about a seriously ambivalent teacher or GC recommendation, or an essay that rings wrong.</p>

<p>I really recommend that you get on this, hard. Talk to the GC. Don’t let the GC off the hook – she should be contacting Colgate to find out what she can. Consider the possibility that she already knows more than she is saying, too. Your son should cycle back with his recommenders immediately, and figure out whether he needs to replace one of them (which is tough at this point, I know), and whether he needs to get a supplemental recommendation to Colgate to address a concern raised by what they already have. Neutral third-parties, preferably with some experience, should take a look at the essays he submitted.</p>

<p>Something similar happened to a friend of my daughter’s. She was a top-10 student at a really good school, a good athlete (not recruitment quality, quite, but enough to show discipline and teamwork, and to make her attractive to the less serious end of D-III colleges), a birthright Quaker with a social service resume a mile long (and deep, too, with real leadership), and luminously, unpretentiously beautiful to boot, which never hurts anyone. She applied early to Carleton, which her GC thought could have been her safety school, and was deferred, much to everyone’s surprise. She applied to a whole bunch of similar colleges, all of which her GC considered matches or safeties, and when the dust cleared in March she had been rejected or waitlisted at ALL of them . . . except Carleton, which took her. I think a lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into that acceptance, however, on the part of the GC, and there was a long, good historical relationship between the school and the college that the GC could draw on. In retrospect, it was clear that something obvious was wrong with the student’s application, and every college responded consistently to it.</p>

<p>You are way ahead of the game, since your son already has an acceptance that will work for him. But I would make an effort to diagnose this problem immediately, and see what you can do to fix it.</p>

51

<p>I wonder if the 92 is weighted?</p>

52

<p>

</p>

<p>Hmm… in some cases rank becomes an issue, since no way to do it that is fair to all. It all depends on if there are weighted classes, dings due to non-weighted classes (like music), caliber of classmates yada yada. Perhaps it would be less of an issue at RD.</p>

<p>Sometimes need is a factor too. From web - "Is Colgate “need-blind? -
Colgate is committed to meeting the demonstrated financial need of all admitted students, but the admission process is not need-blind.”</p>

53

<p>S is also considering Colgate. I think he periodically gets emails about chat sessions. Maybe your S could participate? Also, I think Colgate is need aware. Perhaps they just need to see how the class looks with regard to being able to meet need.</p>

54

<p>THANK YOU, thank you all for the great suggestions! As always, keep 'em coming.</p>

<p>Talked to GC yesterday am. She was NOT volunteering to call the school but suggested DS2 do so (which he did by e-mail - thought he might still be a bit emotional to call). She expressed surprise at the deferral but said it has been a crazy admission cycle with deferrals galore.</p>

<p>Her suggestions - contact school to express continued interest, a new LOR from outside school, and she will send an updated recommendation along with end of semester grades in Feb.</p>

<p>To update a few things:
—92 is unweighted
—we did apply for aid (and will need a bit) so that was a thought of mine as well. Colgate is needs aware.
—we have done the chats, and I do believe they keep track of your comments based on discussion with an admission rep while waiting for our tour!</p>

<p>JHS - thanks for your thoughtful post. I have been scared to voice that thought out loud. I think I will try going around our GC (I really loved S1s counselor) and see if we get a different take on his application. Many people have read his essays and thought they were very good. I have no clue about any of the LORs except that he chose teachers who knew him well and seem to think highly of him. Who knows what the GC wrote.</p>

<p>jackief - Naviance is tough since he has such high SATS it pushes him to the right but he IS low on the GPA. Not a lot with his GPA admitted, but obviously all with his scores were admitted</p>

55

<p>skier29, has anyone from his school reneged on an ED agreement with Colgate in recent years?</p>

<p>I agree with JHS’s assessment. Find out more about the LORs and have another look at his essays. I also echo the calls to express continued interest. Here is an excerpt from UChicago’s rep to deferred students.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/1261060-advice-deferred-students.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/1261060-advice-deferred-students.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

</p>

56

<p>response from admission rep-</p>

<p>"Thank you for your e-mail. You are correct, we will review additional and updated information prior to February 15. When reviewing your application, we read the letters of recommendation and read about your extra-curricular activities. It is not necessary to solicit any additional letters of recommendation or provide greater detail about your activities, but you may do so if you wish. We received a first quarter grade report from your high school with your application, but If you would like to submit a more recent grade report we will be more than willing to review this information. "</p>

<p>So…Thoughts from objective readers before I draw my own conclusions…?</p>

57

<p>My take on the response is that the adcom has all the soft-stuff (LORs, ECs) that they need and anything more probably won’t be a game changer. However, I would definitely send in first semester grades. Also, do you know if Colgate recalculates the GPA per their own formula? Or do they just use the GPA that is submitted? If they use submitted GPA, is there a way for your HS to send in a weighted GPA?</p>

<p>Last thought - I think this response might be more about aid because the response kinda reads like they already know whether they want your S or not, and since they deferred and didn’t reject, that’s why I’m thinking it’s about the aid.</p>

<p>Of course, I’m only going through this myself for the first time, so I’m far from an expert. Take with a large grain of salt!!</p>

<p>Good luck to your S!</p>

58

<p>Actually, I have probably changed my views somewhat. The intersection of need-aware admissions and significant need may well be enough to explain the deferral, even of a really strong student. Colleges generally deny it, but many people think that the whole ED system is a way that colleges manage their financial aid demand, since most ED applicants are not very aid-sensitive. Colgate may simply not allow large aid awards to be committed in the ED round, absent some significant hook (sports recruit, Questbridge, etc.). I would still check to make certain the application was OK, but there is clearly a reasonable explanation for the deferral that does not depend on the application being bad.</p>

<p>A corollary of this is that the ED deferral does not necessarily portend a bad result in March. It may simply be that March is when the major financial aid dollars get allocated. But it does mean that he is in competition for those dollars. He could well be a near-automatic admit to Colgate based on his numbers and personal qualities, but not an automatic recipient of X% of Colgate’s financial aid budget.</p>

59

<p>If you do decide that the need factor is the tipping point, I would consider schools that claim to be need blind for admissions. URichmond is a gorgeous school and as I recall is need blind.</p>

60

<p>Here’s a link to schools that are need blind: [Need-blind</a> admission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission]Need-blind”>Need-blind admission - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Some of these have an EDII round.</p>