Will be a Senior next year. Could go to top state University for 2 maybe 3 semesters to complete Chemistry degree because of the college classes taken during high school. (AA degree and then some approx 90 credits at graduation) Not sure if they should go for an Ivy or finish up quickly and cheaply at state school - Chemistry major possibly - with looking to med school. Will be 20 at graduation and turn 21 right at start of med school assuming gets in that quickly. Not sure the best route when considering $$$ and time in school. With 90 + credits including the AA degree from high school would any Ivy accept as a transfer student?? Chem 1 & 2 w/lab for majors/ Bio 1 & 2 w/ lab for majors/ Calc 1 & 2 for majors, Physics 1 w/lab for majors and all AA requirements and a few extra thrown in like Psychology and Sociology to prepare for MCAT.
Isn’t it way too early for a remake of Doogie Howser?
Are you the parent or the student?
“Not sure the best route when considering $$$ and time in school.”
$$ and time favor the AA route. The reasons to avoid this route are intangible.
“With 90 + credits including the AA degree from high school would any Ivy accept as a transfer student??”
If by “Ivy” you mean highly selective national university, sure, given a 3.8+ and lots of involvement or work – in other words, treating the AA like high school where you need to be in the top 5% or so of most high schools to be competitive.
in general, professional schools prefer more mature over younger students.
Some Ivies do not accept transfers; OTOH, Cornell is transfer-friendly and has an excellent Chem program.
Med schools will want to see A’s in upper division courses in the sciences at your 4-year college. In addition to Chem, you might consider a Bio course or two to demonstrate proficiency against stronger competition.
What state are you in?
Good luck.
I’m the Parent. I guess they would enter as a Freshman because the 90 credits were earned while in high school. GPA 4.0 unweighted, and 4.7+ weighted. Really weighing on my mind what would be best. Its easy for me to say go to the state university where we won’t have to pay much $$$ and they can finish quickly which saves even more $$$. Esp. knowing medical school is in the future and we have other children to consider. They have sports, tons of extra curricular and volunteer work along with strong academic record so I believe they would have an excellent chance of getting into any school. We were looking primarily at Harvard strictly because we have friends in Boston and don’t know anybody near any other Ivy. They will have Biology 1 & 2 with lab for majors when finishing high school. 11th grade all classes were college, and same with the schedule for Senior year. Thus the 90 credits which I feel is way above norm. They love the math/science and are not keen to repeat the AA (English/humanities, etc) however if they could get into an Ivy we’ve been told they should go even thought they would have to repeat everything. Oh we’re in the South so the weather up North is an issue and the distance. Thank you for the help we want to encourage the best decision for their future. Don’t want to kick ourselves forever for making wrong choice. Yes we’ve been told the age could be an issue for Medical School, however one we really like mentioned its illegal to discriminate based on age and said they had at least one 20 year old student in their program.
My opinion. It sounds like you have a great kid! But please do remember…the acceptance rate for Harvard is less than 10%. It is not a slam dunk for anyone to get accepted.
You need to also check to see if your state school will award a degree to a student who is only enrolled for a year.
Is your student taking upper level college courses?
re#4:
“OTOH, Cornell is transfer-friendly and has an excellent Chem program.”
Chemistry at Cornell is a major in its College of Arts & Sciences (“CAS”). The last breakout I have seen of the university’s transfer admissions by college is for Fall 2011. The CAS transfer acceptance rate was 7.5% for Fall 2011. For Fall 2010 it was 7.3%.
Full AA and then as for upper level : Anatomy & Physiology with lab, Statistics, For Majors - Chem 1 & 2 with lab, Biology 1 & 2 with lab, Calc 1, Calc 2 and Physics with lab. I agree and understand not a slam dunk for anybody to get in but think its not out of reach, but do not know if its worth repeating so many classes and so much $$$$. That is the conundrum. 2 maybe 3 semesters tops at a state university to complete a degree, vs. 3 years assuming Advanced Standing at an Ivy. Not to mention the vast $$$ difference. Big decision. I’ve been reading the boards, researching for a while but finally decided I had to post and ask for help. Yes state school not an issue 2 maybe 3 semesters and full degree, plus some automatic scholarships, leaving not too much $$ out of pocket. Selfishly state school is best for me in every way, but afraid not best for their career/future???
Reason trying to figure out if its worth attempting to get into Ivy is to decide if its worth taking SAT subject area exams and if we should visit this summer. If we are going to go with state school then no reason to spend the time or $$$.
Physician here.
It is not “WE”, it is your child who will be making these decisions. Parents can offer suggestions but it is up to the student to chart their life path. Any student with not only the academic ability but the maturity and independent thinking needed to be a good physician needs to be doing the planning. This is NOT something parents can plot out and tell their at-this-point-in-time aspiring physician what path to follow.
There is a reason most of the elite schools do not accept AP or other work done in HS. The caliber of their college work (and that in flagship and other Honors program classes) is much more rigorous than AP course material. Your child will NOT be repeating the course material- s/he will be doing a lot more.
I highly recommend your child attend a college with academic peers, not just the cheapest (eg community two year college) one. First of all, the course work will better prepare him/her for studying at the same level as in medical school- more material and in less time. Being with like minded peers will be most intellectually challenging.
More importantly, you (and your child) should be looking at college as a wonderful opportunity to take classes and have experiences not available at any other time in one’s life. I value all of the electives I took as an undergrad and the time spent with friends at all hours. We were Honors Chemistry majors but discussed everything under the sun in the wee hours. We also had time to do research in top chemistry labs as undergrads at our top 5 or 10 in chemistry flagship.
Back in my day (when we women were still blazing the trail to equal numbers) there wasn’t the current emphasis on extracurricular activities there is now for students applying to medical schools. Now, not only stellar grades and good MCAT scores are needed to be competitive, but other activities showing interest et al. Rushing through a wonderful period in a young adult’s life ignores the person as a whole as well. There is a lot more to life than just the time spent “doctoring” as a physician. Taking arts, music and being involved in sports and other activities makes for a well rounded, more interesting life.
Your child needs the time spent at a four year college to explore options and figure out if medicine is the only path to follow. Perhaps only 3 years will be needed to get a college degree but s/he will be exposed to so many intellectually satisfying opportunities nit available at a commuter average student college.
Can you tell I am horrified at your plans yet? I also do not think that no matter how brilliant/gifted your teen is that s/he will be as competitive if you shortchange the education like your potential plans would. S/he will lose the fantastic freshman in college experience than can only come just after HS, will not get the chance to be challenged by peers, will not enrich him/herself with all sorts of nonscience college experiences just to name a few lost opportunities.
Your child apparently is gifted and should find one of many colleges with his/her peer group. If accepted to an Ivy expect four years. If at your flagship use the credits but be prepared for needing study time to make up for material not learned in the basic science courses with credit earned through lesser schools to tackle advanced chemistry courses or others for a different major. With college experience as a full time student your teen likely will continue to mature in his/her interests and may prefer grad school to medical school.
Finally (need to “shut up”, finish this long post). Be sure your child is enjoying every stage of life. What if there is no tomorrow? Will you have no regrets that your child had a good life to date, or will every moment be spent on a future that never comes? This is something I thought of over the years as my highly gifted son fst tracked through early grades. He got to have a childhood. He also had no intention of following his parents in medicine (too smart to do that we said). He is happily following his own path, intellectually satisfied.
PS- you are counting your chickens before they hatch if you assume your child will get into an Ivy as well.
Short answer. Go to state flagship U. Child will discover path while there.
@omslcm “With 90 + credits including the AA degree from high school would any Ivy accept as a transfer student?? Chem 1 & 2 w/lab for majors/ Bio 1 & 2 w/ lab for majors/ Calc 1 & 2 for majors, Physics 1 w/lab for majors and all AA requirements and a few extra thrown in like Psychology and Sociology to prepare for MCAT.”
Yes, most top colleges accept transfer students, if that is your question. However, I do not think they are not going to accept 3 years of transfer credits and graduate in one year. I haven’t seen a 4 year college accept more than 2 years of credits.
I can’t tell from your description above, but it appears to me as if you have taken approximately the equivalent of AP Bio, AP Chem, AP BC Calc, and AP Physics A/B. I do not see any advanced chemistry, such as multiple organic chemistry courses, physical chemistry courses, or biochemistry courses. If that is the case, then you are about where a strong incoming college freshman, not a junior, would be coming into a top premed program, assuming you earned mostly A’s in those classes. I have the impression that you go to a high school with few APs and they have sent you to a community college. That is great and from what I can tell, you are doing very well there, but I don’t think that strong premed programs will think that you as far ahead of the majority of their incoming freshmen as you may think. You need to get some good counseling right away.
@omslcm “Could go to top state University for 2 maybe 3 semesters to complete Chemistry degree because of the college classes taken during high school.”
I do not think that is likely even if you transferred all of your credits because you have base level courses in many subjects, but no advanced courses in any subject.
@omslcm “Not sure if they should go for an Ivy or finish up quickly and cheaply at state school”
You should immediately work with a counselor to understand what you will be able to transfer into a state university medical program, before you begin your senior year, so there is a common understanding. Honestly, that should have happened before now. You also need to talk with s/he about what schools are realistic given your grades, test scores, academic interests and constraints. Ask that person whether you would be a candidate for a top school.
@omslcm “Not sure the best route when considering $$$ and time in school.”
Remember that many, many pre-med students are not admitted into any medical school at all. If you do not get into a medical school, then you will not be saving time and money. You need to take a knowledgeable counsellor your transcripts and discuss what is, and is not, realistic for pre-med programs given what you have accomplished so far. Also, you need to get an understanding of what other attributes outside of the classroom will help make you a competitive candidate for medical schools. There is more to undergrad than just rushing through classes. How will you demonstrate leadership, what exposure to the medical field will you have, what research experience will you have? Those are things that make a candidate a more competitive and compelling medical school applicant.
I hope that is helpful.
jmho
It also sounds to me like you are rushing things. Medical school is not something to be undertaken lightly and is not something you want to change your mind about half way through.
I also don’t feel you’re being realistic about zipping through college in 2-3 semesters and being able to put together a successful med school application. Is your child going to take MCATs and apply to med school during the first year of college? What health care related EC’s–medical research, volunteering in a hospital or medical setting, EMT certification and service, will your son have completed by then? What professors will know him well enough in his first fall of college to write good letters?
What is chem2? Is that a full year of organic chemistry or second semester of inorganic? The classes you describe sound like a typical AP load taken by Ivy-caliber high school upperclassmen. Many such students aiming for med school will have taken AP bio, AP chem, BC calc, and AP physics while in high school. I’m not understanding how your son’s program is so much more advanced. And how do you get a chemistry degree one year out from what looks like freshman level intro science classes? Am I missing something?
I hope you are aware that many students enter college as premeds and then change their mind. And that med schools do prefer more mature candidates. It’s not a matter of age discrimination. I imagine it’s a matter of wanting students with a certain level of personal maturity and also expecting to see sustained interest and commitment to the medical profession demonstrated over years of medical-related activities.
Not sure I would say they are “gifted” but rather a hard worker/high achiever who has decided they want to be a Doctor. Somehow ran out of classes to take in high school which is a huge issue. Looking back should have graduated a year early perhaps and then could have been off at a larger state University taking courses next year instead of taking them at the local college. Not an option now due to poor preparation on our part therefore I’m trying to be proactive and research college and medical school issues in advance. Never said they would get into an Ivy but believe they would have an excellent chance. Problem with Ivy is the $$$, extra years of school, location and weather all of which makes me prefer a local university. Most people tell us that is a bad plan and they should go Ivy if possible which is why I finally decided I needed more advice. By the way I’m totally against being a DR. I’ve tried and tried to talk them out of it. Realize the ultimate decision is not mine or they wouldn’t be doing medical in the first place but do want to give the best advice. We will be paying so need to know if Ivy is worth our $$$$. Your answer was state U which would be a short 2 or 3 semesters, but you sounded like you think they should do 3 years which would mean go for Ivy? I was hoping for some magical answer from somebody. I think transfer would be easiest option and would be a no brainer if that was an option to do 2 years as a transfer and not have to repeat all those AA courses. Appreciated the Cornell suggestion will def. look into. Appreciate all the advice. Wish I’d planned ahead earlier on for high school!
Not “rushing things” just realized our folly with mistakes we made in high school by not looking in advance. Do not want to make mistakes again. You have to have Chemistry 1 and Chemistry 2 as pre-req for Organic Chemistry. They may take Organic at the College but not sure if it will be offered. If its offered then yes they will take Organic. You can take Chemistry for majors or non-majors, they have taken for majors. They are in an advanced program and then added in courses at the local college. Yes they may take the MCAT right after high school next year as they will have all the pre-reqs if they get in the Organic Chemistry. If not will have to wait a semester for the Organic class. Checked with the state universities and will be 2 to 3 semesters for full degree. Volunteering at Hospital already. Spoke with a few medical schools. One state medical we love because of their unique program and they had no issue with the age. Realize have to see how the final year of college grades are and MCAT. Too soon to know. Right now have to decide where to go for undergrad.
Just the fact that u mention $$$, implies that $$$ is not unlimited in your household. Med school is VERY expensive.
Since admission into med school depends on GPA & MCAT scores, rather than the name of the undergraduate school, then it would make sense to go to an undergrad school where you are unlikely to be eclipsed by your classmates, and to conserve cash to pay for that pricy med school bill.
Apply to a bunch of schools and programs of all types. I don’t see any decisions that need to be made right now.
Also, at any school, he’d need to major in something, so finishing in less than 2 years is very unlikely.
BTW, you may want to google “Sho Yano”. There are med schools who won’t discriminate on age if the maturity is there.
Finally, I don’t think you’ve made any mistakes up to now, so I can’t say I understand what you are beating up yourself for.
- I agree with @purpletitan. I don't see any mistakes up to this point. However there may be a gap between how advanced you are and how advanced you think you are.
- Whether an Ivy is more expensive or cheaper may depend on your FAFSA.
- The binding constraint with an Ivy may be whether they will admit you. They are very difficult to get into. What are your grades,SAT/ACT scores, and ECs?
I was writing while people were posting. I’m very sorry I’m confusing everybody. I will try to clarify. Yes I’ve checked with the state universities. Its 2-3 semesters for full degree because of the over 90 credits coming out of high school. I keep grouping the AA classes as such instead of listing but here it goes: English 1, English 2, English Literature, Spanish Literature, and another Spanish forget the official title, Economics, Art History, European History, American History, US Government, Human Geography, Statistics, Pre- Calc, Anatomy and Physiology with lab, Psychology AND Sociology. I think I didn’t forget anything but full AA degree complete. All state schools MUST accept this AA degree and you move on to your major.
Now again for the upper level classes in the major: Note you can take these classes for majors or non majors, these are all the FOR MAJORS courses. Chemistry 1 with lab, Chemistry 2 with lab, Biology 1 with lab, Biology 2 with lab, Physics 1 with lab, Calc 1 and Calc 2. Possibly Organic Chemistry if offered next year at the local college. These are upper level college courses at the local college. The state Universities HAVE to take these courses by law because they were taken at a state college. These are all JUNIOR level courses.
I know its a lot of courses. They took courses in the summer and full loads during the regular year because they like school are mature. We were fortunate enough to go to school with an advanced curriculum and they took advantage probably too well! Hope that helps.
Lots of good points made and appreciate the advice. I understand that the research will only have 2 to 3 semesters if going the state university route. However not sure how much research students enter into during Chem 1 & 2? I will look into that. They are already volunteering at the hospital but thank you for mentioning that requirement. I was also worried about the age till talked to at least 2 medical schools we were considering that were fine with the age issue. Then I felt a lot better. It was the one medical school that pointed out its illegal to discriminate based on age, and they had at least one 20 year old in the current class.
My question is State School or Ivy??
Pros for state school they don’t really enjoy the English/ Humanities/ History and are not keen to repeat those courses. State Univ will accept the AA and no more of those courses required. 2 or 3 semesters left for a degree (which could be a negative depending on how you view it) Will receive automatic scholarships so won’t cost much $$$ and will be close to home.
OR do you go for an Ivy school and have to repeat courses you don’t care for like the English/ Humanities etc., plus you are far from home up North with “bad” weather, spend more time (years) and more $$$$ just so you have that undergrad degree from an Ivy. What is the better option. Is an Ivy worth it? or do you go with the State University? This is my ? I’m asking but doesn’t mean they will listen to me. I’m just gathering advice. Thanks for the help.