<p>It makes it so much easier writing those tuition checks when I think of my likely more highly attractive grandkids:)</p>
<p>I have a very high opinion of St. Olafs. I would think that there would be many people who would consider that kind of strong LAC education to be a real asset.</p>
<p>Mini, I get your point entirely. I for one do not believe this kid will be shortchanged at St Olafs; I get why people take out a second mortgage to pay for Brown; I also get why kids at St. Olaf’s may prefer to go there even if they could afford full freight at Brown with no trouble. Disclaimer- I was a “scholarship student” at Brown back in the day when it wasn’t politically incorrect to say such things.</p>
<p>But talking about PhD production seems to me to be a somewhat tangential point. Kid wants to go to Brown. Parent wants kid to go to St. Olaf’s. If Brown is unaffordable then the decision is made. If it is affordable, but would involve a lot of trade offs and sacrifices all around, then get those sacrifices on the table, get everyone talking about what the issues are, etc.</p>
<p>My own parents knew what they were getting into and decided it was worth it. A couple of my siblings went to State schools at virtually no cost and decided that was “worth it”. </p>
<p>And I’m sure the wine I drink is quite inferior to what my neighbors drink. Most of them went to the local state college commuter branch. Most of them drive nicer cars and have more attractive children and grandchildren.</p>
<p>No one is suggesting that going to St Olaf would be a terrible fate. But, apart from the money, Brown is the better choice, if only because it is the D’s choice, not the mom’s.
How much debt is $40k? $10k per year. An undergraduate course assistant in math can earn something like $2000 per course, working about ten hours a week. With this kind of earning potential, the price difference could be whittled down to something a bit less scary.</p>
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<p>What?! How dare you! Why I am looking at a picture right now of my son (sired by a lowly state school grad) and my nephews (sired by an Ivy grad) and my son is just as beautiful. Dare I say it? He’s more beautiful!</p>
<p>Of course, he’s dumb as a box of rocks but we didn’t expect any different, being state school grads and all.</p>
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<p>I cracked up with that one, too, WesternDad. Although, as an Ivy grad, I do find my husband pretty darn attractive, especially after the third glass of fine wine. :)</p>
<p>I bet you drink that fancy wine that doesn’t come in a box, don’t you? Fancy pants, Ivy grad!</p>
<p>It seems to me that the discussion about finances has already taken place between parents and daughter. She knows (more or less) what she’s in for in terms of debt. If she was told that she could attend any of her options as long as she took on the difference in debt (or whatever was decided), then she should be allowed to make the choice, as long as her parents give her a realistic idea of what such debt would entail once she graduates. I’ve read too many ridiculous statements on CC of students saying that “$200,000 debt is no big deal” to trust that high schoolers, even mature ones, know what this means. </p>
<p>If all things were equal, including fit, I would recommend, without hesitation, Brown. It is an excellent institution that does indeed open doors, provided the student understands how to do it. More importantly, the all-round, highly charged, intellectual environment is found in few universities. Yes, super smart kids end up at all types of colleges, but when you get a whole campus of the best-of-the-best along with an endowment that brings world class speakers and intellectuals to the campus, you end up with something special.</p>
<p>If your daughter preferred St. Olaf’s, then I would say she had made an excellent choice. However, there’s a reason she prefers Brown: she can see herself excelling in that environment. The question now becomes whether the family can swing the money.</p>
<p>Pudmadkate, I drink only the snobbiest wines. </p>
<p>As a humorous digression, I had a friend (NON-Ivy grad, thank you!) who is a wine judge and tasting instructor. He bought a special bottle of expensive wine that he promised his wife they would drink on their anniversary. The two were on their way to a romantic getaway, bottle of wine safely packed, when their car broke down in the middle of nowhere, and they had it towed to the nearest service station. Unfortunately, the mechanic needed a part that wouldn’t arrive until the next day; they had to check into a motel overnight. When it came to dinner, the only places to eat within walking distance were fast food restaurants, so they ate Big Macs and fries with their $150 bottle of wine.</p>
<p>Boy, I would never pay that much for a bottle of wine. But I do enjoy an occasional BK meal.</p>
<p>A previous poster said Ivy leaguers “marry more attractive spouses, raise slightly more beautiful children…”</p>
<p>Hey now! I went to St. Olaf and my wife is attractive and my children are beautiful. I dare say that the St. Olaf student body is more than moderately attractive. Non-attractive students? They go to Carleton (I kid).</p>
<p>From Olevillains, a St. Olaf humor site:</p>
<p>“Of the 759 first-year students [that arrived], 349 are male, 410 are female, and approximately 632 are more than moderately attractive…[the admissions office] ranks students as Jaw-droppingly Hot, really attractive, cute, not bad, maybe after 1 beer, only after two beers, and only slightly better than Carleton.”</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://olevillains.com/news/news2.html]OleVillains[/url”>http://olevillains.com/news/news2.html]OleVillains[/url</a>]</p>
<p>A question for the OP: if your D is considering a math major, where does she expect to begin in terms of course placement? S1 considered some LACs with excellent reputations in math, but found that given the level of work he completed in HS, those schools would be hard-pressed to keep him growing for four years. </p>
<p>If your D is intererested in knot theory, some of the top knot theory folks in the world are at St. Olaf’s.</p>
<p>Tokenadult mentioned a strategy my older S (math major) used with good success in his college search: looking at where the profs at the schools he was considering attended for undergrad and then secondarily, where those UG experiences led them to grad school. An added bonus was that in the process, he also learned what specialties and strengths various departments had to offer.</p>
<p>I have to say, the OP’s D saying she’s ready to stretch and be challenged to grow resonates with me. That was ultimately the deciding factor for S1’s decision vs. going to schools that would enable him to remainly firmly ensconced in his comfort zone.</p>
<p>"They drink better wine than others do. They marry more attractive spouses, raise slightly more beautiful children … "</p>
<p>“I cracked up with that one, too, WesternDad. Although, as an Ivy grad, I do find my husband pretty darn attractive, especially after the third glass of fine wine.”</p>
<p>Momwaitingfornew:</p>
<p>What made this so funny is that I think the person was perfectly serious when he wrote it. It was as if these are basically “givens” for folks who attend Ivy League schools. </p>
<p>But take heart! Ivy Leaguers raise only “slightly” more beautiful children. Whew! Imagine my relief!</p>
<p>Well, gosh–as a daughter of an Ivy League grad, I blush!</p>
<p>OTOH, my S quit one–what the heck will happen to *his *kids???</p>
<p>If the D goes to St Olaf, all her children will be above average. She herself will be strong and her spouse will be good-looking. It’s Lake Wobegon land, after all.</p>
<p>From Wikipedia:
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<p>Back to the OP…is this decision about the location of the schools (do you want DD closer to home perhaps?), or is it about money (Brown costs too much?) or is it about both?</p>
<p>Regardless…here is my opinion. If you didn’t want your child to go to Brown, you should have had that discussion BEFORE the applications were sent.</p>
<p>If your daughter’s college decision hinged on the finances…that is a discussion you should have had BEFORE the applications were sent (you might have told your D that she had to go to the less expensive school).</p>
<p>Anyway…barring a family financial meltdown…I’m sorry, but I would have to vote for Brown. If spreading her wings is in the horizon, she will have more opportunity to do so at Brown.</p>
<p>One other thing to say: Grade Inflation (Brown’s mean gpa = 3.6)</p>
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<p>The Great Gatsby (then James Gatz) attended St. Olaf’s.</p>
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<p>F. Scott Fitzgerald, it seems, felt the same. Ultimately neither of them graduated from St. Olaf or the Ivy League.</p>
<p>He did ultimately end up very drunk.</p>
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<p>Oh Garland…they will need plastic surgery.</p>