<p>This is Dad of daughter at work away from home. St Olaf is $43,700-$21,500 in academic scholarships plus $3-4,000 more. Brown is $48,000 check to school, no assistance of any kind (other than education loans which cost more than getting a new mortgage on house) plus $4,000 more for $52,000 total. St Olaf is a 3+ hour plane ride from home. Brown is a 5-6 hour plane ride to Boston and Bus or Train to Brown. Yes, we know you can fly into Provedence.</p>
<p>Financial offer made by Dad to daughter prior to any college applications:</p>
<p>Parents pay 100% of first $100,000.00 over 4 years.
Parents pay 50% of next $100,000.00 over 4 years.
parents rebate to daughter 50% of all scholarships for amout below $100,000.00
0
Example:</p>
<p>Daughter goes to U of Oklahoma full ride. (or one of 7 other colleges with this offer)
Scholarship is worth $87,000.00, daughter gets check from parents $43,500.00
Daughter goes to St Olaf and graduates debt free. Parents pay $100,000.00 cost of St Olaf.
Daughter goes to Brown and parents kick in $150,000.00</p>
<p>In view of parental bribes not to go to Brown (or other comparable priced school), daughter must really want to go to Brown.</p>
<p>Daughter perhaps hopes to get NSA scholarship to Brown beginning junior year which would bring cost of Brown down to St Olaf, but absolutely no guarantee of this scholarship.</p>
<p>If your D goes to Brown, the COA over four years will be more like $200,000+ than $150,000. Only you can decide whether you can afford to borrow the extra money it will cost for your D to attend Brown over St Olaf. If your D would be getting a $21K scholarship plus a few thousands more, the COA at St Olaf over four years would be less than $100k. Do you have other children who will be going to college? As I said, St Olaf is an excellent school. Your D might consider a year abroad that would allow her to “spread her wings” or to spend some of the money saved on summer travel.
I paid full fare for my Ss, but I’d be loath to advise other families to do the same.</p>
<p>20 minute edit time ran out. Brown only came into picture March 31. This led to there being co-first choice colleges. St Olaf had no contenders prior to March 31. St Olaf was clear first with nothing else coming close. (Yes, Carleton was visited) After a visit to Brown for admitted students and more research, Brown seemed to gain in attractiveness and this trend seems to continue.</p>
<p>Well, Brown certainly has a lot going for it (and I have been taken to task for highlighting them). But are they worth the COA difference? Each family is different not only in its financial resources but also in its spending priorities. If you feel you can afford for your D to attend Brown, then I’d say go for it. If it’s going to cause you sleepless nights, if you’ll have to dip into your retirement income, take out a second mortgage, if your D will have to work to pay off loans instead of taking advantage of the resources of Brown and Providence, then it probably is not worth it.</p>
<p>It’s not Brown vs. St. Olaf. It’s Brown versus $100,000 and St. Olaf. If you have the money, I think you have to honor your bargain with your daughter… but how is she going to come up with her $50K?</p>
<p>Paying for Brown is more a “value” and “values” question than a cost question. Our comfortable cash flow is $25,000-$30,000 per year and the rest can come by liquidating investments or by borrowing. Pre-Brown acceptance, if St Olaf was a 9.5 on a scale of 1-10 and the best “free” choice was a 3.0 on the scale, then paying $100,000 for St Olaf was a no brainer. Now, if going from St Olaf to Brown is going from one 9.5 to another 9.5 or a 9.6 on the scale for an additional $100,000 it is one thing but if Brown is off the charts at a 15 it is quite another thing. The scale is subjective, not objective and is a scale of “fit” not of quality, exept that quality is considered in the “fit” equation. For example, Princeton (spelling?) is an excellent quality school but rates only a 3 out of 10 on this scale because it does not “fit” daughter and was not even given a second thought in the application process. Most of the Ivys were not applied to as they did not rate high enough in the “fit” rating. As opposed to the never given a second thought Princeton, Brown seems to become a better and better fit. The decision making process includes figuring out whether Brown is a 9.0, 9.5, 12 or a 15 compared to the St Olaf 9.5 and what value to attach. Remember, it is a “fit” number unique to each entering student, not a “quality” number.</p>
<p>So it sounds from the parents as if D has decided on Brown and is prepared to bite the bullet on finances. I say that’s a terrific roll of the dice. I think Brown is an absolutely terrific school that will open up enormous opportunities for her, and she’s to be applauded for a courageous choice to take on something new and big and challenging. It’s a little “yikes-ey” as DW likes to say to contemplate taking on that much debt. But she clearly sees some opportunities there that she doesn’t see at St. Olaf. And no one’s in a better position to see that than she is.</p>
<p>I do agree, however, that this thread has revealed some not-so-subtle regional biases that people ought to consider. Whether you coined the term or not, “flyover country” is deeply insulting. And in many cases, highly inaccurate in its assumptions. Some parts of the Midwest as as much connected to the deep intellectual, cultural, and political currents that bind this country together and propel it forward as places on the East or West Coast where those connections would never be questioned. And yes, we Midwesterners (and I am one, both by birth and now by choice, having lived on both Coasts) are often a bit defensive about the dismissive posture taken by some bicoastalists</p>
<p>I think DD deserves a lot of credit for knowing what she wants and being willing to put skin in the game. Do you know how many kids would be down at the local BMW dealer?</p>
<p>“but how is she going to come up with her $50K?”</p>
<p>combination summer jobs, assist a class at Brown, dorm RA, student loans and a good paying job after Brown to pay the student loans off?</p>
<p>We are a family that does not drive a fancy car or live in a fancy house. One adult is past peak earning and other could pass peak earning on short notice. It seemed fair to me that there be some buy in from daughter if attending an expensive school.</p>
<p>“Skin in the game” is a very good description of the intent. I am very, very, very proud to have a daughter that has of her own choice and own motivation worked hard enough k-12 in public schools to with a little bit of luck be admitted to Brown. I just think that at some point a little skin in the game is appropriate and after viewing my age, earnings prospects, and savings $100,000.00 seemed like a good number to start requiring some skin in the game. She would also have credit for skin in the game at St Olaf as she earned the scholarships that brought the price below $100,000.</p>
<p>Dad58,
Congratulations. You should be proud not only of your daughter who is truly worthy of celebrating at this moment, but of what you and Mom58 have contributed to bring her to this point. This is indeed a time to savor, to rejoice, and to be thankful for.</p>
<p>Dad58,
Congratulations, and ditto what #150 bclintonk said. We do a lot for our kids, don’t we?</p>
<p>It does sound like Brown is the right choice, though I can appreciate your dilemma and the thought your family is putting into it. My own S2 is passing up the chance to attend our state’s public “honors college” to attend an achingly expensive LAC. Yikes! It’s in the midwest, by the way. I may go and visit now and then, if I can find the airport, on my way to a conference in one of the more important states.</p>
<p>Regarding #53 westerndad: No, I was not perfectly serious when I wrote #19. As usual, my attempt at humor was a little heavy handed. Must’ve been the wine.</p>
<p>Oh, and about jobs for your daughter: She’s strong in math, right? Suggest she look into math tutoring jobs. Maybe to kids at a good ($$$) private school in the Providence area? Have heard these jobs can pay $50/hour. RA jobs can be pretty good too. Maybe we need a new thread just for this?</p>
<p>Late to this thread, but we faced a very similar situation in our house. DS loved St Olaf and it was his top choice for awhile. He was accepted to Williams, visited, and decided without question, that was where he wanted to go. Financially, it will be tough but doable for us, yet the St Olaf merit offers were quite extraordinary, and the school is a relatively close car ride away. Williams is a looooong car ride or flight, but I know in my heart it is the right place for him to grow intellectually and in other ways. </p>
<p>Mini, I know you are not so keen on Williams, but my son absolutely felt like it is the best fit for him.</p>
<p>“skin in the game:”
Even in schools where there are graduate students, it is not unusual for undergraduates to be recitation section leaders. At Harvard, they’re called Course Assistants. I would suspect that Brown has equivalents. A student would not be employable until sophomore year, but the pay is quite decent (though not in the least comparable to that of TAs, even though the work is the same). For something like a 10-hour load per week, a CA at Harvard earns about $2000. This seems to me very doable and would bring in $4000 per year. This may be enough “skin in the game.” (By the way, what is the origin of this phrase?)</p>
<p>M’s Mom: Right now, MN may be the most important state (Coleman vs. Franken never ending saga) or the least important (having only one senator) :)</p>
<p>I actually graduated from a midwestern university, one known for attracting nerds and social misfits, before marrying my smart, more socially adept, and stunningly beautiful midwestern wife of 24 still-getting-better years (Hi sweetie, are you there?!) </p>
<p>I even lived in Northfield, Minnesota for a year. Liked it, too, except for the part about removing the car battery every night in winter and carrying it up the apartment stairs so it would not freeze. Even that has left me a good story to tell. Oh, and one of my S2’s college choices was a little gem of a LAC in Minnesota. In some ways it was my personal favorite among his choices, but he chickened out due to the cold and the too-urban location. </p>
<p>He did not apply to any Ivies, but if he had picked one, it would have been Brown.</p>
<p>Buntrock scholarship at St. Olaf + National Merit = $21,500.
Brown = $0. (The same old middle-class story, EFC > COA until second daughter starts college.)</p>
<p>We come from St. Olafs in Northfield Minnesota
Our team is the queen of the campuses small
We fight and fast furious, our team is injurious,
and Lutheran College had better watch out.
Hoomyaya, hoomyaya, etc.</p>
<p>$50k skin in the game is not an unreasonable goal. Stafford loans get her to $27k (and are a better deal than private loans), which leaves $23k to be earned over four years. That comes out $5750 in earnings per year – divided by a $10/hr. pay rate, is 575 hours of work per year, whether that happens over the summer or during the school year. </p>
<p>VERY do-able on her part.</p>
<p>S1’s skin in the game will be ~$20 k next year – $10k merit, $4500 Stafford, $3200 personal expenses per his school’s budget, plus the school’s summer earnings expectation of $1950. (This year, with some one-time outside merit awards, his share was close to $28k.) This has enabled us to contribute our piece without having to borrow, at least until S2 heads off to school. He knows he is lucky that he got to make his choice without financial pressure, but also knows that it would not be happening without his willing buy-in as to his share of the costs.</p>
<p>Mom and Dad58, I just want to congratulate you on your well-balanced approach to this decision–and on your wonderful D, of course.</p>
<p>On the regional bias issue, as a Northeasterner, it is my observation that we are the only acceptable target on CC. No one is lambasted for saying that we are nasty snobs and our weather sucks. But don’t DARE to suggest that everything isn’t rosy elsewhere! Just as it is perfectly acceptable to deride any Ivy-league school and intimate that anyone who wants to go to one is simply a prestige whore, but heaven help you if you suggest that a state flagship or midwestern LAC isn’t perfect. Of course, I am also aware that our southerners feel put upon, as does everyone else. :)</p>
<p>I actually think this was a valuable discussion although I’m sorry that people’s feelings were bruised in the process. When visiting colleges with my own kids I saw a couple of campuses that I loved- which were not on the radar screen when I was in HS just because of my parent’s East Coast bias coupled with the general lack of sophistication about college at that time. It’s not that my parents set a distance limit or would have been horrified at the thought of going far away- just that kids we knew went to college on a Greyhound bus or on Amtrak (or on the T if you were lucky enough to go to college in Boston) so folks weren’t kicking the tires on Beloit or Northwestern or Kenyon or Miami or Rhodes or any of the very fine schools that I’ve come to learn more about as an adult.</p>
<p>I went to Brown, as I’ve mentioned before, and despite being only an hour away from home it could have been another planet. I had never even heard of half the places my classmates were from- and had certainly never known anyone who had a summer house anywhere. And they weren’t all rich or affluent- but even the other “scholarship kids” were exotic. (child of two missionaries? military brats?) And the grad students even more so- they were old enough to have their own stories, not just “child of”.</p>
<p>We live in a flatter world now, so I think kids do need to venture a little further or stretch themselves consciously to break out of the confines of their HS existence. I’m sure OP’s D would do that at either place. But personally I found Brown and Providence to be a fantastically supportive combination. </p>