What's a reach/match/safety with these SAT/ACT scores?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I should know the answer by now, I've been around CC long enough. But I think when it's your own kid, you're not always as objective as you should be. That's why I'm asking for the opinions of the very helpful CC parents about which of the schools on S's list are realistic, now that the latest SAT scores are in. Here's my take - tell me if I'm close, and suggest any other smallish LACs that come to mind (south is preferable). </p>

<p>REACH: Davidson, Rice, Emory
REACH/MATCH: Wake Forest
MATCH: U of Richmond, Rhodes, Denison
SAFETY: Elon, Mary Washington</p>

<p>He's also considering UVA, although the class size concerns him. He liked it a lot when he visited and he's a legacy (OOS), so I don't know if that makes it a match or still a reach.</p>

<p>His best scores thus far are 680CR/650M/670WR, 8 essay. ACT is 29, with an 8 essay - retaking both in the fall. SAT IIs are 630 LIT, 610 USH and 580 BIO (the bio was taken in 9th grade). I'm pretty confident that he can raise the ACT at least to a 30, maybe higher. SAT math probably won't improve too much but if he could just pass that 700 barrier in CR and WR, it would help. His weighted GPA is 4.1, unweighted is 3.6, class rank is 16/209 (these might improve a bit once final report cards are out - he did well last semester). Also, he's a National Hispanic Scholar, if that helps.</p>

<p>He doesn't have a lot of ECs. He started a chapter at his HS of a state-sponsored organization that provides reading mentors to 3rd grade students (very time-consuming, involving recruiting and training the mentors, explaining the program to several elementary school principals in order to sign up the 3rd graders, etc.). He has done some forensics and he also holds down a weekend job. He did sports in 9th and 10th grades, but didn't have time last year with the mentoring club. He's a voracious reader and is intensely interested in philosophy.</p>

<p>Notwithstanding his crummy essay scores on the SAT/ACT, he's really a pretty good writer. I think he'll come up with some very good admission essays once he puts his mind to it. </p>

<p>He doesn't love any of the schools on his list enough to apply ED, and merit money is important to us. I know he won't get any from the reach schools, but what's about those on the match list - does he have a chance for $$ there?</p>

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<p>
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He doesn't love any of the schools on his list enough to apply ED, and merit money is important to us.

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Excellent combination and it is important that he forego any thoughts of ED, even as the pressure to get the "ED boost" might rear its head over the coming months. If you want merit money, he doesn't want to limit himself to one schoool. EA, of course, remains a great idea.</p>

<p>In suggesting other schools - is he limiting himself to the South (as it appears from the current list)?</p>

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<p>I think being of Hispanic heritage will probably make up somewhat for the scores given the strength of his other qualifications, notably the reading mentoring and the forensics. So I think you are pretty much on target with your categories at the match andf safety levels, but I don't know about money--I have the sense that Richmond is really going for the numbers these days, but then again, it might also be looking for more ethnic diversity.</p>

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<p>List already looks good, but if you're looking to do more research....is Denison in Ohio the one being considered? If so...some other schools to consider: College of Wooster, Marietta, Otterbein, Miami University (likely a reach...smallish public liberal arts), Ohio Wesleyan. Marshall Univ in West Va.</p>

<p>If he's willing to go even further north to PA...lots of options...including Dickinson, Franklin and Marshall, Lafayette.</p>

<p>Also...if he liked UVA but is concerned about class size, what about William and Mary? Would be a reach....but maybe worth considering.</p>

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<p>jmmom - the south is preferred only because of familiarity and comfort level. He would consider northeast/midwest, but not west coast (too far!).</p>

<p>2boysima - Yes, Denison in Ohio looks great on paper. I hope we can visit that one, but he'll probably apply sight unseen. I'll have him look into the others you mentioned, too.</p>

<p>And, for what it's worth, I LOVED William and Mary but S didn't even want to do the tour - we left after the info session. He didn't like Williamsburg -- called it the "Orlando of Virginia"!</p>

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<p>Oh , goodie! A fellow southerner. ;) Somebody I don't have to convert. ;) </p>

<p>Picking nits here but I'd put Wake in the reach category. The rest looks correct. For merit I'm going to completely ignore Hispanic, although I really think it will help at certain schools looking to improve diversity stats, I personally believe that will be at the reach level schools moreso than the merit level schools. JMO.</p>

<p>Don't forget Hanover, he will be competitive and it is a very good LAC. I'd think that at the present score levels , a 1330, 29, top 10% kid will have a good chance to get merit aid of at least $8-10K and maybe substantially more at Hanover, Presbyterian, Wofford, Oglethorpe, Millsaps, Birmingham Southern, Samford, Hendrix and Mercer. Maybe Furman, Rhodes, Centre and Sewanee but that's pushing it a little (he'd get some $ and if diversity kicks in, who knows? Could be big $. But they are VERY competitive at the big $ levels) I'm making the assumption that you know about Rollins, Flagler, New College, and ______. (I think I'm going completely senile). Edit: Eckerd!!! Freakin' Eckerd. Yahoo! I'm not 'round the bend yet! </p>

<p>I'm just going southern on this list, but there are MANY MANY choices at this level nationwise. Tell me how much cash we are looking for at a minimum (or how much you can pay as a max). </p>

<p>Check those out . Texas suspects would be Southwestern, and Austin Coillege, maybe Trinity (but I don't think they are that generous. Some on the board do.)</p>

<p>I do want to say that a substantial number of great scholarships at the above schools (and at your reaches) are not entirely numbers driven. There are service scholarships, leadership scholarships and scholarships for traditionally under represented groups. I think he could strike a chord at Washington and Lee, too. </p>

<p>A higher stat male Hispanic is going to get their attention. I good strategy would be to really concentrate on the schools like a Goucher, or an Elon at the merit level (or other schools with 70/30 F/M ratios). At the reach level, he would have a shot at a newly merit aggressive Trinity, or I have heard on these boards that Holy Cross was about to join the merit wars (grain of salt), and I think Providence college could be an interesting look as they are seriously trying to wrestle Villanova's spot away from them using merit aid as one tool to do so.</p>

<p>Most importantly, enjoy this process. You will watch them metamorphisize right before your eyes. It is truly amazing how fast they will change.</p>

<p>It can be a great time to get real hooked on your kid if you do it together. My best advice? Always remember it's their time to steer the boat. You are just there to paddle. ;)</p>

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<p>So happy curmudgeon showed up. He is the merit guru for the southern (well, not just southern) schools, im-never to be so-ho. I think curmudge would agree with this thought - merit chances (or $$ amounts) might increase if you do include the geography card. Schools will like his stats, his EC's, his URM status (let's assume) but they will also seek out geographic diversity. Some (many?) LACs also need the gender balancing boost that a male will provide. So look at the %M/%F of schools he likes and consider that factor.</p>

<p>Since he will consider beyond the South, I was going to suggest some of the Catholic schools as they have been traditionally strong in philosphy. Holy Cross and Villanova would top my list. I can't resist throwing in Santa Clara U in this category altho it is in California because they gave S decent merit $ LY due (by my guess) to his stats, gender and geography. Hey, your S would get to keep warm weather :). These latter two are unis but with a LAC feel. I second the Lafayette and Trinity mentions. Bates and Holy Cross (as SAT optional schools) might fall into his match (instead of reach) categories if he doesn't send his scores. Nothing wrong with his scores of course, but I think he is even stronger without them by not having to compete with any of the 1450+ kids out there. That top 10%, NHScholar and his EC's are a pretty impressive package.</p>

<p>I don't know a lot about any of these schools wrt merit $ (except SCU) but your S has a lot going for him. Does your EFC rule out need-based aid? If not, you'll want to pay as much attention to the schools' handling of need-based as well as merit $.</p>

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<p>patsmom:
I bet he'd qualify for merit money at Denison. Here's my suggestion though. Go to their web site
<a href="http://www.denison.edu/admissions/staff/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.denison.edu/admissions/staff/&lt;/a>
and call the admission's rep that is for your geographic region and ask him/her if they will be interviewing near your town. It really behooves your son to try to snag an interview. Denison does look for displayed interest (I think there's some other term for that...but it escapes me).</p>

<p>If you haven't read my post about Denison check it out:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=159719%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=159719&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>


You know that I always agree with you. It's in our secret "Survivor CC Island" pact , isn't it? And anyway, you are correct. ;)</p>

<p>Always think reverse commute. If everybody who looks like you heads south, you head north. If you are rural, look urban. Conservative (the thinking kind, not the reactionary kind) look liberal. And of course Female look at schools where the male population is 70+. Male? Head the other way. This strategy works well with merit but it works best at the upper reaches of merit IMO, and then continues throughout need only schools. Probably a gross oversimplification that I will get drilled on but who cares? "The better the school, the more they care about things other than the raw numbers". Milk it for all it's worth.</p>

<p>OH, and weenie - "displayed" interest works fine. Posters mired in tradition would say "demonstrated" interest. You just have more imagination.;)</p>

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<p>I just have more senility...</p>

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<p>Occasionally, great insights do issue from your hammock,..</p>

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<p>uhh, did you say hamhock? Suddenly, I realize that I haven't had lunch. ;)</p>

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<p>Nice List!</p>

<p>Agree with above posters-- re "applying against type" I think you may want to throw in a couple of Goucher, Grinnell, Macalester sorts of schools who may be short on southern gentlemen...</p>

<p>Kenyon is another that is pretty similar to the ones on your list...</p>

<p>Merit aid can be found at Lawrence (Wisconsin.)</p>

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<p>Wow, lots of good suggestions here! And I was hoping Curmudgeon would chime in as the resident expert on merit aid - thanks! Looks like it's time to haul out the Fiske Guide and the CTCL book again and start looking more closely at some of those cold-weather schools. </p>

<p>Curm, right now he doesn't want to even consider a Florida school. I'm still planning to check out Rollins and Stetson later this summer on our way to visit S1 in Gainesville. Flagler doesn't appeal to him at all. Eckerd could be a possibility, maybe. New College would be the financial safety but I don't think it's a fit for him. He's a little more on the conservative side, I guess you'd say. And, while he wants a small school, 700 kids is TOO small. As far as how much we're prepared to pay, that's hard to say. While we could probably swing full freight, we don't want to if we don't have to. It would put a dent in our retirement fund for sure. Grandparents are planning to help out to some extent, which helps, but we want the best balance of cost and quality. I guess if I had to put a number on it, I'd say we're aiming for at least 7 or 8 thousand in merit money. </p>

<p>One thing I didn't mention is that he would prefer a college with a business major available. He thinks he might like that along with a minor in philosophy. Who knows, though? The only thing I'm sure of is that he won't be a science/math major -- the rest is fair game.</p>

<p>Weenie, thanks for the Denison tip. We have been in contact with the admissions rep already asking about their diversity weekend in the fall.</p>

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<p>I would encourage him to apply to Emory throuh the Emory Scholars program, he will have to apply early and it has to go through his counselor. Emory has shown a good response to hispanic applicants in our south ga area. Also, apply to Oxford College at Emory early as a safer alternative. A full scholarship there will carry over to the last two years at Emory.</p>

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<p>


Well, heck, Patsmom- he can pretty much put most of the merit schools in America on his list then. You are in good shape. See what he likes about some of the suggestions on the thread. Some will appeal and some won't. That will give us a better feel for our parameters. But that kicks the door pretty much open.</p>

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<p>You have had good advice on schools already - let me just suggest that he obtains an extra letter of rec for the reading/mentoring to help it stand out.</p>

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<p>But if he wants a Business major option, isn't that going to point you away from a number of the LACs and toward the small universities?</p>

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<p>Just so nobody misinterprets my post 16 , I 'm not saying he is a shoo-in for merit of $7-8,000 at the top merit schools. Only that they can now be seriously considered. Had the requirement been 3/4 tuition, we'd have to have a different list.</p>

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<p>jmmom - he's not sure enough about business to make it a deal breaker in his college search, so he'll consider most of the LACs, I think.</p>

<p>thatmom - thanks for the mention of Oxford. I've been curious about it. It hasn't gotten rave reviews here on CC from what I've read, but I think it's worth a visit. What bothers one kid about it might not bother another and S would certainly be better qualified for merit money. I don't think even his NHS status would be enough of a boost for Emory Scholars at his score level, though - those have tended to be in the 1500 range from what I've read.</p>