<p>Could you post an example? What about an A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, C-, or below C- paper? Also indicate the course the paper was submitted for and if the professor is supposed to be a harsh or easy grader. I figured this is a good way to gauge the level of expectations that UChicago professors have for social science and humanities courses. Thanks.</p>
<p>While I won't post my actual papers (privacy, fear of plagiarism, and the like), I'm happy to talk about my individual impression of the grading scale at Chicago.</p>
<p>I should preface my comments by saying a few things.</p>
<p>1) My friends and I don't talk about grades in any sort of detail with each other. I knew more about one my friend's erotic habits at age three than I did about the grades he received this year. The other time grades came up was with one of my housemates who was in my social science core class, though he was quite tipsy at the time and talking a bunch of nonsense. The only other time I can remember grades being discussed is when a friend expressed in disgust that she got a B on her paper-- it wasn't the B that upset her as much as it was that she got a B last time, and wanted to see some change, either up or down. Other than that, schoolwork is usually discussed obliquely, as in "I did pretty well in that class" or "I'm finding it difficult." Evidence on grades is not concrete, not even anecdotally.</p>
<p>2) Every prof varies in grading philosophies and standards. There are the occasional profs who don't even give grades out until the end of the quarter, and some profs who have their own grading systems that they only later translate over into letter grades.</p>
<p>3) The average GPA here is a 3.26, which is just below a B+. Some students are getting high grades, so it must not be all that uncommon.</p>
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<p>In core classes, my general feeling is that if you've handed in a paper that has no obvious flaws and shows that you have done your best to read the texts and think through the issues, you can expect a B- or a B at worst. I had three different teachers for humanities core; two I felt were easy graders, one I felt was a hard grader. I got grades on papers ranging from C+ to A, with a few A papers my first year. The paper I was proudest of, though, was the one I handed in to my hard grader professor. I don't remember what I got on it, but I remember that she and the writing tutor really liked it and gave me great suggestions for improvement. I always found the comments better than the grades, anyway, and the comments ranged from 100 words to a single-spaced typewritten page. And I don't know if it says more about the school or about me that I was indifferent about my A papers, knowing that I could have handed them to another humanities prof and could have gotten a B, or a B+, or a B-, or an A-.</p>
<p>I had the same prof all year for my social sciences core, and I stayed at a B- the whole year. At the beginning of the year, he announced that the average student earns a B-, so this grading put me in the middle of the pack. I wasn't as proud of these papers, though, and felt I was BS-ing too much and purposely avoiding major themes, and I actually thought that these B- grades were kind, given my feelings about my work. If my prof was generous, though, I think it's because he recognized that I was trying hard (not as hard as other kids in the class, but hard).</p>
<p>To answer your question in the abstract, an A paper is one that has a solid argument but extends beyond the professor's expectations. In college, and especially at Chicago, you're not going to get away with writing some humdrum and obvious thesis like "the sky is blue" and think you can spend the entire essay proving that the sky is blue. One of the biggest challenges is to find a non-obvious, nuanced position, and find a way to defend it, both by mining the text and mining your thoughts. Though you're not going to have the best batting average, I feel like profs give props for effort.</p>
<p>Also, we're forgetting about a lovely thing called writing seminars and office hours. Before you turn in your first assignment, you'll have time to get used to what's expected of you and to meet with your prof or your writing TA and go over an outline or some ideas. (Some profs don't accept rough drafts, some do, but all are happy to talk about your ideas and how you might improve them). They would also happily answer what makes an A essay-- for them.</p>
<p>Thanks for your insight.
Would you be curious to find out what the A paper in that class was like, or did you not care about the grades at all as long as you got thoughtful feedback on the paper you wrote? As expected, the standard varies from professor to professor, but were you curious about what the A student in that particular class did differently to get the A?</p>
<p>I think most people would be, and so far my professors have all been very good about giving feedback like "If you do [x] next time, your grade will be higher" or "You need to improve [x]."</p>
<p>I haven't heard anyone mention writing tutors before now. Are there tutors for each class (i.e., who can comment on substance specific to the course) or are the tutors part of a general writing support service?</p>
<p>Is it possible to get feedback from the prof before papers are due (assuming there's time to do so), or is the writing tutor the main source of feedback?</p>
<p>I always loved getting feedback on writing. It happened so seldom -- profs loved my writing -- but in retrospect, I really could have used someone to help me refine my argumentation. In many cases in HS and college it was as if the teachers were afraid to give me constructive criticism -- and I knew I needed it.</p>
<p>Over the years I have been pretty brutal with the red pen with my kids -- but I sit down and explain how to improve, and I also write comments on things they did effectively. I tell them my old editing stories and that in the long run, feedback's a useful thing. They both have acquired the same habit now -- and when they have to do peer editing for school, the recipient on the other end is always taken a little aback.</p>
<p>One of my pet peeves is teachers who expect brilliantly written papers, take forever to grade them, and then give NO feedback (or inaccurate feedback). DS2 wrote a 15 page paper in 7th grade on torture and the Geneva Convention and the teacher made three corrections -- two of the suggested corrections were grammatically incorrect, and one was substantively incorrect.</p>
<p>I can confirm that U Chicago kids do not discuss grades among themselves. My D received an academic honor this spring (actually 2) and was surprised at who she saw at the awards lunches and dinners - several classmates that she knew were smart, but had no idea were stars.</p>
<p>The secret to A papers? Try like mad, be willing to seek criticism and feedback for how to make a B paper an A paper, and lots of revisions. </p>
<p>In other words, like anything else - hard work.</p>
<p>I'm friends with a Truman and a Fulbright, but of course I only found out about their accomplishments when I read the newspaper.</p>
<p>'tisthetruth-- For me, I don't care what my classmates are doing. Just the way you don't look at the person who's next to your urinal, I don't find myself thinking, "Oh, I wonder if SALLY got an A, and what SALLY did differently." I find myself admiring what Sally might say in class, or admiring the papers I edit for my friends even as I slash them with a red pen, but I also know that Sally's specific strengths and weaknesses are different than mine. I know that I have very specific strengths and weaknesses, and those play into my extreme variation of grades. If the weaknesses outnumber and interfere with the strengths, a C. If the strengths overpower the weaknesses, an A-/A.</p>
<p>CountingDown-- humanities and social science core class (first-year classes) are equipped with writing tutors. In humanities, writing tutors hold small writing seminars throughout the quarter and serve as another pair of office hours besides the professor. In social sciences, the writing tutor is there for another set of office hours (or, in my case, meeting with the writing tutor in Classics Cafe and spending two hours on Foucault and half an hour of her ranting about how the University isn't what it used to be-- the typical rant of an old-school U of C person). If you need help, it's there.</p>
<p>In core classes, both the prof and the writing tutor end up reading all the papers and agreeing on a grade for the student, but they split up the task of writing comments.</p>
<p>Grades are never discussed competitively. I know the general grades most of my good friends get. It's the kind of thing you learn about your friends by hearing them complain or stress out or get really excited about a paper or test. I know specific grades of a few friends who I share classes with. One of my friends (who happens to be one of Jack's best friends) and I had classes together all year, and we always got together before papers to talk them through, and we often read each other's papers before turning them in. I know most of the grades she got, and she knows most of the grades I got. It's part of being friends and a result of working together on our papers. There is almost never a sense of competition about grades, though. I can think of a couple of people who like to show off their grades, but they are few and far between, and everyone hates it when they do it.</p>
<p>Grades depend a good amount on the professor. With most of my professors this year, it was very hard to get an A. Very good papers would get you a B+/A-, but a flat A was reserved for students who brought up new, interesting, nuanced, creative, and well-stated points. That's pretty tough to do. Most professors provide long written comments about your work. They are all happy to talk to you before, during, or after the writing process.</p>
<p>I would say that students who work hard and are taking a resonable course load can generally get a 3.0+. The general thinking, at least what I've heard, is that anyone who is 3.0+ is doing fine. Dean's List is 3.25+ and is another notable marker. A number of students are around the 3.25/3.3 level (which would be the B/B+ range). Other students have GPAs that are 3.7, 3.8, or even 3.9. It's difficult to look at GPA since we only take three or four classes a quarter. Your GPA is very easily effected, especially in your first year.</p>
<p>To add on to what Unalove said about writing tutors... First of all, there are not necessarily writing tutors for sosc core. It depends on the section. My class didn't have one, but the professor's other section did. Writing tutors are graduate students who are specially trained in writing and teaching. They attend every class. They may even lead some classes if a topic falls under their specialty. Some of the more senior writing tutors actually teach a section of core hum in addition to being a writing tutor for a different section. (We use "professor" to mean whoever is teaching the class. This person may be a full professor, asst professor, lecturer, or senior grad student who's just finishing their thesis.) Since your writing tutor works closely with the professor and attends every class, they can be almost as useful as your professor when seeking help. Your writing tutor will often grade some papers. The grading is worked out by the tutor and the professor. If there are two papers in the quarter, the writing tutor may grade the first ones and the prof may grade the last ones. Or they may split each group. Or something different.</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanations, unalove and corranged. Makes me want to go back to college! ;)</p>
<p>A papers in Core classes vary by professors. A friend of mine asked her professor how to improve for the next prompt from an A- to an A and was told flat out that he does not give As in Core classes.</p>
<p>It's sad but true. </p>
<p>Your best paper will generally be an A- in Core if you are competent.</p>