<p>as i began looking into schools more extensively, i became interested in some liberal arts schools. my parents, who REALLY want me to go to the ivies, are horrified by the thought of me attending a liberal arts school.</p>
<p>honestly, i don't know much at all about them. my father constantly stresses their lack of resources, their lack of variety in classes, the horribly small population of students, and the less than average professors... but i'm pretty sure he's a biased source who's just trying to stray me from the idea.</p>
<p>what are the main differences between liberal arts schools and other colleges? (in terms of mindset, teaching, quality of life, academics, etc) and haha i already know that they're very small in population so you don't have to mention that.</p>
<p>basically i'm asking for a compare and contrast. thanks to anyone who can help me out! :)</p>
<p>This is sort of unorganized, but I gave it a shot. It's pretty hard to explain.</p>
<p>The smaller population causes smaller classes, which means there is usually more one-on-one time with professors. And there is also typically more discussion (with a class of 20 students, professors can do more than just lecture). Another commmon thing said about this is that the professors at LACs are there to "teach, not just research." Not sure how true that is- both types can stress research, but that's what is said.</p>
<p>There is usually also more focus on reading/writing.</p>
<p>"Learning for the sake of learning" and "passion for learning" are two ideas commonly associated with LACs.</p>
<p>For the negatives... Yes, a smaller school can mean less classes. I countered that by applying to a LAC in a consortium. Think the Claremont schools, or Amherst's consortium, or the Tri-Co (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and loosely University of Pennsylvania).</p>
<p>And another negative- they tend to have less name recognition than bigger schools, which is very sad. Strong alumni base, but random people on the street might have never heard of your college before.</p>
<p>tell them Amherst > Brown.<br>
Williams > Dartmouth</p>
<p>Another things about LACs is that most, if not all, are strictly undergrad schools. No grad students on campus, so the professors focus on the undergrads (you) and their research if they're doing any. </p>
<p>Personally, I attend a large state school and can't imagine myself at an LAC, but everyone is different.</p>
<p>I know this might sound mean but I find it hard to imagine that someone who thinks they might have a chance at an Ivy doesn't know what a LAC is? Any list of the top ten schools in America includes Amherst and Williams.</p>
<p>"and the less than average professors"</p>
<p>Either an uninformed comment or just plain dumb. Either way insulting.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I know this might sound mean but I find it hard to imagine that someone who thinks they might have a chance at an Ivy doesn't know what a LAC is?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You'd be surprised, especially among those students who just look at the USNews list of National Universities and choose colleges based on prestige rather than fit. At the same time, even those who don't know much about college have heard of the Ivy League, causing it to be desired by those who want prestige.</p>
<p>^ There's more at play than just a search for prestige. I agree that it might surprise people to know how easily LAC's can be overlooked. Region plays a role (on the west coast, LAC's seem to get a lot less attention/recognition b/c we just don't have a great concentration of them), as does HS, as does serendipity. Even having applied to both LAC's and universities, I never actually heard or understood the real distinctions until long after my search was over, and I was a strong student coming from a competitive private HS.</p>
<p>OP: Some people strongly and indiscriminately prefer universities, others feel the same way about LAC's. Most, I think, can see the positives and negatives in both, but the type that's best will depend largely on a particular student's needs, interests, learning style, etc. Do a search for LAC v. Uni type threads, as it's a very common debate around CC. If a search doesn't get you the info you want, you might try asking in the parents forum...some of them attended one type of school and now have children at the other type, or have children at each type, and therefore have interesting perspectives.</p>
<p>"At the same time, even those who don't know much about college have heard of the Ivy League, causing it to be desired by those who want prestige"</p>
<p>I agree among the general population that this is true. I also think it applies often to international students. I still do not believe that within the top 1% of high school students, those with any chance at the Ivy's that they do not know about Amherst and Williams. Now you may prefer one type of institution to the other but I doubt there is a single domestic student at Harvard that does not know of Williams and vice versa.</p>
<p>A domestic student at Harvard? No idea. Maybe you're right. A domestic student considering or applying to Harvard? Different story.</p>
<p>That's not a knock on LAC's. I went to one and have absolutely nothing but wonderful reviews. But speaking firsthand, having come from a strong private school on the west coast--one that annually sends a few students toward Ivies, but has not, in my memory, sent a single student toward AWS (not that my memory should be taken as fact, but hey)--you're making too great of a generalization. I may be talking about exceptions--the extreme minority of students--I really don't know. I'm sure most of these 'exceptions' have unthinkingly flipped past the Amherst page in a college guide, or what have you, but I don't think that's the level of 'familiarity' that you're talking about. To say that not one single top domestic student is unfamiliar with particular LAC's, or that a lack of great familiarity is certain evidence of a prospective student's ignorance, is unfair.</p>
<p>This isn't a criticism of anyone or any school. I just think you're overestimating. Sorry. Not really the point of the thread, anyway.</p>
<p>Your father is misinformed about liberal arts colleges -- and probably about the Ivies as well. </p>
<p>You need to do some reading on your own (sounds like you're already doing that) so that you can teach him a little bit about the differences between major research universities and LACs. </p>
<p>Finally, you could consider getting the book Colleges That Change Lives -- a book that focuses on some of the best, but lesser known, LACs. It's filled with information you could share with your family.</p>
<p>"Not really the point of the thread, anyway."</p>
<p>But it is the point. I think the odds that you are getting into HPY if you have no knowledge of AWS are very remote. Something is missing in the decision making process. US students that get into Ivy's know the other options, they have too, the accept rates of 10% mandate it.</p>
<p>^Coming from a suburban area in TN, I can assure you that the few kids who desire to leave TN usually aim for Ivies and other well-known private research universities, perhaps because they have never heard of the LACs. They might know of some prestigous southern ones like Furman or Davidson, but that's it.</p>
<p>ETA: Double post with person below, who is right about many not knowing about Ivies other than HYP and maybe Cornell (at least, at my school).</p>
<p>^ What you just said is entirely false.</p>
<p>I go to a small public in Texas. Many people couldn't even name the full Ivy Leage, much less ANY LACs. My school sends 1 or 2 to Ivies every other year or so, and I KNOW that most of them probably had never heard of any LACs. Just because everyone on CC knows about LACs doesn't mean the whole country does. We actually had a girl go to Swarthmore last year, but literally no one knew where that was and had never heard of it. I hadn't even heard of it until I started coming on CC...</p>
<p>Not everyone researches all of their college options extensively before applying. Here, for very smart students, the most common thing to do is to send about 3 applications to Texas publics, 1 to HYP and 1 to another Ivy/peer (MIT, Stanford). Not much is known about LACs.</p>
<p>Neo, you're correct: VAST majority of American college students go someplace relatively close to home, and get into their #1 school... because they only wanted to go to one school... the state school relatively close to home. There is really not much of a need for them to inform themselves about the various choices. </p>
<p>Also, the LAC thing is somewhat regional. Big in the Northeast, always has been. Far less common -- and well known -- in the west, where the "Ivies" are more likely to be big public research universities.</p>
<p>One more try. The op wants to only go to an Ivy, 8 schools no others,and feels that schools like Ameherst and Williams are inferior ("my father constantly stresses their lack of resources, their lack of variety in classes, the horribly small population of students, and the less than average professors"), so in this exapmle the fact that most kids go close to home does not apply. Ivies is not a generic term there are no "Ivies" in the west. Among the population of high school students that have 2350 sat, 4.6 weighted gpa, 10+ ap's with only 4's and 5's, they know that the places to go are HPYSMitCalT AWS. For the rest of the world it doesn't matter. There are many great schools out there where great kids get supurb educations. There are 8 Ivy's and on most lists only 4 or 5 of them are in the top ten schools.</p>
<p>"Harvard turned down 1,100 student applicants with perfect 800 scores on the SAT math exam. Yale rejected several applicants with perfect 2400 scores on the three-part SAT, and Princeton turned away thousands of high school applicants with 4.0 grade point averages. Needless to say, high school valedictorians were a dime a dozen."</p>
<p>I'm quite aware of what Ivies are and aren't, icantfindaname, but thank you for your efforts to enlighten me anyway. </p>
<p>As to the OP, she is interested in LACs, it's her father who is uninformed. My bet is that they are foreign and unfamiliar with the American higher education system. </p>
<p>Finally, my comment about most Americans going to their local schools is a fact. It wasn't used to be an example of anything other than to illustrate why so many Americans aren't very familiar with northeastern LACs. </p>
<p>You could consider working on your reading skills by the way. They will come handy in college, no matter where you go. And judging by your post #15 you're a bit confused as to what we are saying in our own posts.</p>
<p>^ icantfindaname, Now you are putting words in the OPs mouth. She said her PARENTS want her to go to Ivies. I was under the impression that she was interested in going to an LAC, but her parents are what is stopping her.</p>
<p>"as i began looking into schools more extensively, i became interested in some liberal arts schools. my parents, who REALLY want me to go to the ivies, are horrified by the thought of me attending a liberal arts school."</p>
<p>Clearly she is looking for more information about LACs so she can talk to her parents into letting her consider them.</p>
<p>"honestly, i don't know much at all about them. my father constantly stresses their lack of resources, their lack of variety in classes, the horribly small population of students, and the less than average professors... but i'm pretty sure he's a biased source who's just trying to stray me from the idea."</p>
<p>You are being rude and unhelpful. You've already called the OP "uninformed or just plain dumb". Obviously she doesn't know much about LACs, that's why she's here.</p>
<p>And again. Not every high school valedictorian knows about AWS. That's simply not true. Most of our val's take their full ride at Texas publics without a second thought. The ones that do go to Ivies no doubt go there because of their reputation. I'm sorry, but AWS simply does not have the reputation that the Ivies have. They are certainly not as well known as the Ivies.</p>
<p>"Amherst > Brown. Williams > Dartmouth"</p>
<p>I don't think this general statement is helping the OP very much because another person can easily say "Brown > Amherst. Dartmouth > Williams." Brown has lower admissions rate than Amherst. The editor of USNWR expressed that Dartmouth would rank #1 if placed into the liberal arts category.
"Yet, 'it is probably better to be in the top ten of the national universities rankings than it is to be number one of the liberal arts colleges,' Morse says. 'Dartmouth would probably be first in the liberal arts rankings.'"
(The</a> Dartmouth Review: Dartmouth Ranked Tenth Best College)</p>
<p>"They will come handy in college, no matter where you go"</p>
<p>Sadly to late for that, went to 3 already, undergrad, masters, law. Just happen to go thru the admission process recently with one at UVA Rodman, and one at Williams. Nephews at Yale, Dartmouth, Harvard, and Warton. But this is educational, so you are saying that somewhere out there there are high school guidance counselors who are advicing their school seniors with exceptional credentials on where to apply and they have never heard of AWS. I guess the nation is more regional than I thought.</p>
<p>My high school guidance counselor doesn't advise student where to go to college at all. Basically her job for seniors is to do recs, send transcripts, and arrange schedules. Unfortunate and sad, but true.</p>