<p>I wouldn't say yield is entirely accurate, either. Yield amongst regular decision applicants, perhaps. Also...I wouldn't particularly want to go to a school filled with future Fortune 500 CEOs. I wonder why that would be a criterium?</p>
<p>The op has posted on another thread a math sat of 680 on 2 attempts. Unless there is an 800 to go with that sadly that will not get you into any Ivy or AWS unless you are a recruited athlete, URM, or legacy. As I tried to say before there are many many great colleges out there. </p>
<p>"my father constantly stresses their lack of resources, their lack of variety in classes, the horribly small population of students, and the less than average professors"</p>
<p>When you start a discussion with comments like these you really can't expect great responses from people who go to or went to top LAC's, know much about them, or have kids there. A comment on resources at LAC's. Williams claims that it costs them 85k a year to educate each student so even those paying the 45k are getting a huge discount. Endowments on the order of 750k per student that the top schools have add enormously to the quality of education.</p>
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The IPEDS data was collected to show that graduates of LACs are not at a disadvantage, compared to big U grads, at earning advanced graduate degrees.
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<p>Eh, I'm always a bit wary when these IPEDS data are brought up. Not everyone has the intellectual capability and determination to go for a terminal degree. Your layman is more concerned with job placement and starting salary.</p>
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"Williams > Dartmouth" is not true. I never claimed Dartmouth is better than Williams. I believe they are on the same tier. If you read carefully, you would have noticed that I said that a person can easily find supports for why Dartmouth is better.
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<p>It is arguably true. What are these imaginary, self-determined tiers of which you speak? People can more easily find information about Dartmouth because its a fairly mainstream and popular school.</p>
<p>I guess students are attracted to schools that churn out CEOs or Nobel Prize winners because they think that that tidbit statistic somehow makes it more likely that they will become CEOs or Nobel Prize winners themselves.</p>
<p>Unregistered, been around Latin or bike races lately? Criterion. Sorry, just nitpicking.</p>
<p>And, icantfindaname: as a two attempt SAT-er with half-decent math scores myself (660, 700), I take offense to your observation =)</p>
<p>It just so happens that one of the advantages of applying to an LAC is that their admissions committees are less stat-conscious. I imagine, because their pools are so self-selecting, that they try to see the best in you as opposed to focusing too much on numbers.</p>
<p>Also, national universities are great! If you like liberal arts colleges, you should consider schools such as Dartmouth, Brown, and Princeton.</p>
<p>Damn, you are totally right. That looked awful even as I was posting it!</p>
<p>When did this turn into an LAC vs. Ivy League debate?</p>
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I think the odds that you are getting into HPY if you have no knowledge of AWS are very remote.
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<p>This is from the front page but it's so completely and utterly wrong that I think I actually almost did a spit-take. Seriously, what...?</p>
<p>Anyway, to the OP, LACs are great for some people and national universities are great for some people. No one on this board can really tell you which one is good for you because it's entirely based on your personal strengths and no less importantly, what you want from a college.</p>
<p>If you're like most people and don't lean heavily toward either one, try for schools like Princeton and Dartmouth, which are quite LAC-like, in that they're very undergraduate-centered, but are still widely-renowned national universities with lots and lots of resources.</p>
<p>Of course, the hard part is getting in. ;)</p>
<p>^^^I think the last thing the OP needs is a sacrificial fly at two schools that are already overly promoted both on CC and in the world at large. I thought the whole point of this thread was to help hir think "out of the box", if you'll pardon the expression. ;)</p>
<p>Maybe it’s me. Let’s try this approach. Recently the president of Williams projected that within the next 10 years or so white Americans will represent less than 50% of an incoming class. The phrase used was the school will go from impressively diverse to truly inclusive. That means a total of aprox 260 slots for the typical white suburban student and in that number will be donor’s legacies athletes and oboe players. The top schools are going increasingly global, some even taking their brand and opening overseas campuses. Where I live the top private schools cost 28k a year (375k k-12) and the students that are unhooked hire admission coaches for upwards of 50k to help in the admission process. Of course lightning can strike and someone can lob an app to an Ivy and get in. But understand how serious some are about Ivy acceptance and the lengths to which they go to increase the odds. That was my point about any serious Ivy applicant has to know about schools like AWS. It is in the language of elite school acceptance.</p>
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[QUOTE]
Where I live the top private schools cost 28k a year (375k k-12) and the students that are unhooked hire admission coaches for upwards of 50k to help in the admission process. Of course lightning can strike and someone can lob an app to an Ivy and get in. But understand how serious some are about Ivy acceptance and the lengths to which they go to increase the odds. That was my point about any serious Ivy applicant has to know about schools like AWS. It is in the language of elite school acceptance.
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<p>I hear stories of people hiring expensive admissions counselors and going to ridiculous lengths to ensure acceptance but these have to be a radical minority and a very, very small percentage of the population at Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>I really don't understand what the point is of paying tens of thousands of dollars to hire counselors. Does going to a name school really confer enough benefit to justify that kind of expense?</p>
<p>50% of Ivy matriculants come from private schools where the kids parents pay 10k-25k a year for an education that you can get more or less at a public school for free and they seem to think that the 150k-375k is money well spent. Thats far more money than most families are able to pay for a college education. The top prep schools get a far higher percentage of students into Ivy schools. You don't go to a top prep school so you can brag about where you got your high school degree, its where you go next and where after that. This web site sells admission counseling and it is not cheap but possibly worth it. There is a discussion on cc somewhere about the lengths to which the Gov of Cal Arnold and his Kennedy wife went to unsuccessfully to get their child into BC much less Harvard. You would think if the terminator wanted you to do something you would. The accept rate at H is 10%. When someone says I only want to go to an Ivy its like saying I only want to date someone with 5 million dollars the odds are about the same, almost.</p>
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Where I live...
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<p>And as has now been pointed out numerous times, whatever goes on in your area, it's not necessarily representative.</p>
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And, icantfindaname: as a two attempt SAT-er with half-decent math scores myself (660, 700), I take offense to your observation =)
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Half-decent? =)</p>
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There is a discussion on cc somewhere about the lengths to which the Gov of Cal Arnold and his Kennedy wife went to unsuccessfully to get their child into BC much less Harvard. You would think if the terminator wanted you to do something you would.
[/quote]
I don't think they pursued the waitlist at BC. Besides, USC is better.</p>
<p>the admissions director for Exeter ( top boarding school) told me that the "game" is not to bother with prestige for ug but to go to the school where you will do your best and will pay your way. Getting in to the best graduate school is what counts ... that is when you want in to the ivies. </p>
<p>ug Harvard is known to provide a mediocre education ... but Harvard graduate schools are tops.</p>
<p>At my child's top northeastern boarding school, 5 were admitted to Harvard last year and 4 turned them down.</p>
<p>focusing only on the ivies speaks to not wanting an education but just a diploma ... its the education that will get you further and make you a more interesting person. ivies used to have a corner on the market but that is no longer true ... esp with the dramatic rise in tuition, many colleges can afford top faculty. </p>
<p>just take a look at the resumes of our countries top leaders ...</p>
<p>getting 800s on the SATs makes me wonder (yawn)... i prefer the 740s.</p>
<p>now i admit i am 9th generation Californio and am established.</p>
<p>Yes, but what do you mean by "what counts." I mean, usually when people say "what counts," they mean what counts for advancement into a job that they really want to pursue. So each person applying to college should think about what it is they want out of undergraduate education, and then seek the colleges that will be conducive to whatever it is. When it comes to getting those top jobs or whatever, undergrad isn't what counts. But undergraduate education still matters.</p>
<p>I'm not defending Harvard or attacking you, MQD, but I just want to make it clear that undergrad education still matters in making you smarter, more well-read, more aware of how you perceive life, more analytical, those things that aren't directly job-related but are important to the human being itself.</p>
<p>"At my child's top northeastern boarding school, 5 were admitted to Harvard last year and 4 turned them down."</p>
<p>Harvard's yield is 80% so that seems a little odd shall we say. Assuming...where did they go?</p>
<p>Undergrad is one of the best indicators of grad so I respectfully disagree. Many these days are going straight to the financial sector an skipping MBA so undergrad matters a lot there also.</p>
<p>dchow08 - I think, mqd means in terms of bragging rights, not in terms of pure education. As a fellow LACer, I'm just letting you know, that's probably going to be true for the rest of your life. ;)</p>
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When someone says I only want to go to an Ivy its like saying I only want to date someone with 5 million dollars the odds are about the same, almost.
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<p>This just can't be true. This is going to be totally anecdotal but I go to a totally unexceptional, mid-sized public high school in central Jersey and we get 10-20 kids into Ivies each year. This year, we have students going to or accepted to every single Ivy school. Is this really a very rare or exceptional thing?</p>
<p>The way you're talking about Ivy League admissions, you're making it sound like it's as rare as winning the lottery. In my experience, that's just not true. </p>
<p>Am I totally off base here?</p>
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getting 800s on the SATs makes me wonder (yawn)
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<p>Huh?</p>
<p>"This just can't be true. This is going to be totally anecdotal but I go to a totally unexceptional, mid-sized public high school in central Jersey and we get 10-20 kids into Ivies each year. This year, we have students going to or accepted to every single Ivy school. Is this really a very rare or exceptional thing?"</p>
<p>How do they go to every single Ivy school? lol
It is rare. About 10% rare. </p>
<p>"The way you're talking about Ivy League admissions, you're making it sound like it's as rare as winning the lottery. In my experience, that's just not true."</p>
<p>No, he meant that the chance is as small as saying you want to date only someone who has 5 million dollars, which conveys a superficial attitude towards admissions as well.</p>
<p>"Am I totally off base here?"</p>
<p>As you said, what you relate is purely anecdotal. Just because 10-20 kids go to Ivies from your school does not mean it happens everywhere.</p>
<p>"According to the research made by CapGemini and Merryl Lynch published in the World Wealth Report 2006, there are about 2,669,000 millionaires in the United States , or about 0.9% of the population"</p>
<p>"Total Ivy entering/graduating class -- 14,000 (Cornell and Penn are pretty big)
Total Ivy enrollment -- 60,000</p>
<p>So . . . Ivy graduates are about 0.9% of total bachelor's degree recipients. Ivy students are about 0.6% of total four-year college full time students, 0.5% of all four-year college students, and 0.4% of all college students"</p>
<p>Like I said the same odds as dating a millionaire. Of course some millionaires are already married or old or ugly but aim high.</p>