<p>I want to second blossom's comments above. Employers want students who are smart, can learn things quickly and apply them, can think critically about problems and how to solve them, can work effectively with others, have a good work ethic, can communicate effectively both orally and in written form, etc, etc. etc. A student can get these skills in a variety of fields of study. Clearly there are some jobs that require some level of educational preparation, eg, engineering related jobs, but the liberal arts grad with smarts, people skills and the ability to communicate is still a very viable employee for a firm that intends to teach the new employees the job anyway.</p>
<p>A recent national report on liberal arts education includes lots of statements from business leaders about the necessity of skills developed from a liberal arts education. As a previous poster noted, businesses can teach students what they need for business (or can pay for graduate business work), but they can't remediate what could have been acquired in a liberal arts setting. See <a href="http://www.aacu.org/advocacy/leap/documents/GlobalCentury_final.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.aacu.org/advocacy/leap/documents/GlobalCentury_final.pdf</a></p>
<p>I wonder how much self-selection determines outcome -- i.e., perhaps students applying to top LACs for a liberal arts education already possess the skills we're discussing here: they're smart, they're quick learners, they work hard, and they communicate effectively. If they didn't already have those traits, they wouldn't be headed for that kind of private education. The colleges just provide the polish.</p>
<p>Talk is all nice but where the rubber meets the road</p>
<p>Yes and the article says that in 6 months 85% of liberal arts grads are in jobs with career potential. In other words, they are not flipping burgers. Take it out another 6 months or two years or five years or twenty years and the data I've seen good.</p>
<p>Many in insurance sales, commercial banking and retail. Not exactly glam fields.</p>
<p>"they're smart, they're quick learners, they work hard, and they communicate effectively."</p>
<p>We're are not talking mutually exclusive traits here. These are skills acquired in business schools as well as in liberal arts colleges. Of course, I'm probably a little partial- I graduated from Kenan Flagler (UNC). The place I started at after graduation was hiring business majors, and they were particularly impressed with the business school I'd graduated from. Of course that was over 20 years ago, maybe things have changed.</p>
<p>nah, nothing changes in 20 years ;)</p>
<p>Virtually all of the undergrad business schools now require all the distributional requirements required of liberal arts grads - some of them actually require more (more math, and in at least two cases I know of, foreign languages).</p>
<p>In fact, in a large number of the better business schools, one is not actually "admitted" until one's junior year, and based on grades earned in the liberal arts courses, so one could say that the liberal arts requirements are actually stiffer for business majors.</p>
<p>While there is nothing unique about the recruiting of financial firms on the campus of selective schools, one should wonder why those firms come to a small Liberal Arts College with a graduating class of 275 students in a suburb of LA. Are they wasting their valuable time? Are they looking at filling a list of dead-end jobs? </p>
<p>Fwiw, here is the prelimary listing of recruiting interviews planned for the first weeks of school at Claremont.</p>
<p>September
13 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Bear Stearns
17 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM INVESTMENT BANKING & FINANCE NIGHT
17 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Merrill Lynch
18 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Bain & Company
19 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Lazard
20 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Houlihan Lokey
21 5:30 PM to 8:00 PM FEI Cocktail Reception
24 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Bain & Company
25 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM ACCOUNTING FIRMS NIGHT
26 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM UBS Investment Bank
27 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Bear Stearns
27 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Relational Investors
27 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Deloitte Consulting
28 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Citigroup Global Markets Inc.
28 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM JMP Securities</p>
<p>*October *
1 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Merrill Lynch
2 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Houlihan Lokey
2 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Boston Consulting Group
3 Grant Thornton (Resume Drop Only)
3 McGladrey & Pullen (Resume Drop Only)
3 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Piper Jaffray & Co.
3 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Presidio Merchant Partners LLC
3 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM CONSULTING FIRMS NIGHT
4 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Lazard
4 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Mercer HR Consulting
5 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Ernst & Young LLP</p>
<p>The reality is that schools cannot be categorized in broad and general terms. For instance, Wharton, which is widely recognized as the top school for undergraduate business, does not hesitate to extol the value of its liberal arts approach. </p>
<p>There are many paths to individual careers, and sometimes following the road less traveled can make all the difference.</p>
<p>The major corporations always seem to appreciate graduates of liberal arts programs; as Xiggi notes, they recruit heavily from the top LACs and the liberal arts based Ivies. It's the mid-sized and, even more dramatically, the small businesses that do not see as much value as they might in such an education. Those businesses tend to have niche jobs that are easier to fill with already trained entry-level people. Mini is right: they want to get the cheapest labor force possible, with minimal training from management. IMO (and yes, this is a strong opinion), the smart business owners will understand that a liberal arts grad won't need as much training not only in the particular job but also as the needs of the company change. Liberal arts students, more than pre-professional students, are taught how to integrate information across disciplines. A broad educational background enables them to switch topics, jobs, whatever. Of course, that doesn't mean that a pre-professional student cannot do that, only that such an approach isn't a part of his higher education.</p>
<p>When the economy is bad and jobs are scarce, I think liberal arts grads are underappreciated because, to a non-liberal arts grad (the employer), their educational background seems like a risk. When the economy is strong, businesses cannot have enough of liberal arts grads because of their writing ability, critical thinking skills, and flexibility. They are the type of employees that can rapidly expand the influence of a business. [/strong opinon]</p>
<p>This kind of discourse just gets me so riled up. For generations the technically minded have gloated about their ability to get a job at the snap of a finger right after graduation,. For generations. And for generations liberal arts majors have sighed and said "did you ever take the time to READ the Tortoise and the Hare?". I would guess if I had the privledge of living another 20 years and signed on to CC people would still be arguing whether there is any merit to a liberal arts education. Yawn. There are posters here saying "I work in HR and we hire liberal arts grads" and yet the technical turks refuse to believe it. Yes, oh young person, there is life after liberal arts. If the idea is too scarey to you then go to a technical school. Find a skill based major like Ski Lift Operations or Golf Course Management. Go learn accounting and become a CPA. There are colleges for everybody. Me I'm supporting my first born who is going to major in anthropology/sociology....and I can think of 100 different kinds of companies that hire "those kinds of people" for their market research departments, for their product development departments, for their investor relations departments, HR departments, communications groups and so on and so on...that is if he wants to work in "business".</p>
<p>Nobody has said that there isn't life after liberal arts. At least not me. It's the liberal arts proponents who suggest that theirs is the only degree that affords the student versatility, communications skills, critical thinking skills, etc. </p>
<p>For example: "businesses can teach students what they need for business (or can pay for graduate business work), but they can't remediate what could have been acquired in a liberal arts setting."</p>
<p>This kind of statement has a definite message behind it, doesn't it? Remediate? Business majors have to be remediated?</p>
<p>A BS in Business and a BA in anthropology are not mutually exclusive in terms of skill sets. Yes- MY first entry level job (and this is just a sample of one) was seeking business majors. For whatever reasons. Maybe it was because it was with an engineering-focused company and they like more specialized degrees, who knows? Plenty of companies hire from all different academic backgrounds. But liberal arts majors aren't the only ones that know how to read, think, write, and communicate.</p>
<p>Mom, don't get riled. There are thousands of aerospace engineers who never rebounded after that industry went belly up; there are thousands of CS grads who watched their jobs move to Asia; there are scores of people with degrees in "E-commerce" (the most ridiculous major I've ever heard of) who were flipping burgers when the tech boom went bust in 2001. For the people who studied these subjects out of love-- well, they probably found another passion to pursue. For the folks who majored in something "practical" to make mom and dad happy.... well, America loves a Second Act and what better time to figure out what you really enjoy then after a protracted period of underemployment?</p>
<p>The folks who pound the table for practical majors forget that in every business cycle, some poor engineer seems to take it on the chin. All the parents proud of little Susie and Johnny who are studying accounting in the post Sar-Box era are ignoring all the companies who are outsourcing their accounting operations to India.... you can find a good accountant there for 20% of what you'd pay in Chicago or Milwaukee, so why not???</p>
<p>And hey, I just had a mammogram, and the radiologist (an MD, not a tech) who read my films was in India. Who could believe you could off-shore medicine????</p>
<p>I agree with celloguy- but.
fr instance- d had those attributes pretty much before she even went to college.
So even though she isn't really working in her major- she didn't look for work in that field and she is working in the field in which she is interested ( & will probably have to go to grad school for at some point)
.
Students who don't work in college- ( or work in jobs that they don't get much out of), may be planning to go to grad school, and figure they will pick up employer desirable skills there.</p>
<p>If they don't go to grad school, they may be stymied at how to find a job that can use their background without it, and end up in a field where they have little interest.</p>
<p>I would guess the Dotcom bust put more liberal arts majors on the streets than tech people although it was tough on everyone.</p>
<p>As to recruiting at elite LAC's--yes select firms in the financial services do recruit at the top 20 or so schools but it's also pretty much all or nothing. If you are not Ibank or big consulting material (and the sieve is very fine) the next step is ????. Also if that is CMC that is known as the business oriented school of the CCs. Not your "typical" LAC.</p>
<p>Liberal arts is near and dear to my heart. I am the only non-engineer in my family for two generations and almost 3 generations - one droped out of engineering after coming to the US. The first thing my father said to me when I proudly called after I got my first paycheck from the advertising agency I went to work for was "I spent XXXX per year on your private school education and you make less than my secretary" so I do get defensive and tend to come out swinging in favor of the liberal arts. I now make more than his secretary but that's neither here nor there. By no means do I think that there aren't articulate engineers as of course there are some, but I also decry the idea that the only path to financial security is through a skill based job or being an investment banker. If this generation follows life paths based on how much buck they can amass between 20 an 30 and not so much what will provide some personal satisfaction we're going to have a bunch of mid-life crises in our kids. Look at the technician reading the X-rays. You can't predict today what the world will need in 30 years. If the financial system has a fall out, then it's going to be the investment bankers flipping burgers. Who can say so why argue it, study what floats your boat and provides the most personal satisfaction and don't worry about the path the other guy is taking, I guess is my point.</p>
<p>Not everyone aspires to work at I-banking and similar jobs. My son is doing that now, and my daughter (whose talents do not lie in the areas needed for I-banking, in any case) would not want his job for any amount of money. The hours are unbelievable; unless you are personally familiar with what is expected in these jobs (at least at the entry level where my son is), you would think I was lying if I told you. My daughter is a liberal arts student and realizes that she will likely earn less money than her brother, but she is not jealous at all after seeing what he is going through.</p>
<p>EDIT: Momofthreeboys and I cross-posted, and our thoughts are similar or at least complementary.</p>
<p>mom/mom/blossom--</p>
<p>If you read the thread from the beginning (back in January), you can see that the intent of this thread was not to slam liberal arts majors, but to understand what options are available to those with this type of education. Some of us have kids who may go that direction, and will need to be able to counsel them. Based on the discussion back then, it seemed to me that the opportunities outside of grad/med/law schools were slim. Today's posts sound more hopeful. </p>
<p>If you can shed more light on what typical liberal arts majors do (besides grad/prof school), I would be very interested. Specific examples of career paths (particularly early employment) would be helpful to me.</p>
<p>Also, perhaps you could elaborate on the particular areas of study that you think help develop traits valued by different types of employers.</p>
<p>Wow, Xig, that's an impressive list of firms wasting their time.</p>
<p>Barrons, from what I hear from a recent Smith grad who just took a job in IB, Smith--which doesn't have a business rep like CMC--also has some pretty good recruiting. My D received her first "please apply to us" personal pitch her second semester of junior year.</p>
<p>Do2, my D is interested in public policy, either in a think tank environment or on Capitol Hill. Her LAC background has been no impediment and she scored a spectacular internship last summer and a very good complementary one this summer...the pieces of her resume puzzle are coming together nicely.</p>