<p>I actually meant I personally don't know any film or television writers who went to Amherst. </p>
<p>That's not to say there aren't any such beings, I simply don't know them. I don't see how anyone can quibble with that statement, or fail to give it the importance such a remark deserves.</p>
<p>Uh...well, thanks to smartalic and others who commmented on my question. It was not my intention to start a flame war. My D has applied to both (and Wesleyan) and will know her fate within two weeks. All three are reaches (she has the grades & ECs but the test scores are shaky), but reaches do occassionally work out positively. </p>
<p>The reason I posted my question on this board is because we know so little about Amherst (never visited) and much more about Swarthmore (visited twice). Swarthmore was easy and cheap to visit because it is close to where we live. I figured you folks would know everything about Amherst and some things about Swarthmore. We're just regular public school folks. We don't have a family history of "Amherst men" or "Swarthmore women." None of that legacy stuff. Going to one of these two schools, or Wesleyan, would be an incredible and stunning honor, not a family expectation. Both schools sound intimidatingly upper class. That's what worries me.</p>
<p>Omg I got an early write admission from Swarthmore today and an early write admission from Amherst last Friday! I'm floating on a cloud right now. This is going to be am incredible difficult decision, especially if I, by some miracle, make it to Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, or Dartmouth which I probably won't.</p>
<p>Wow.. PKWsurf21 Well done!!!!</p>
<p>Plainsman: No legacy here either. And if you just looked at numbers, my son is right in there for Amherst - 75% as they say. Still.. I consider him a reach. Not a public school kid, but in knowing that Amherst knows his school, I trust that they recognize his accomplishments on that front. Frankly, it's not cheap for us to visit any school in the east and so all I can hope is he gets into one of the top three and it will a done deal.</p>
<p>My kid is a homeschooler from the rural northwest, Plainsman. He's a high-financial-need kid with two parents who went to state colleges. He has not found it intimidatingly upper class at all. I wouldn't worry on that score. Amherst does a brilliant job of mixing up the student body; ethnically, geographically, socio-econimcally, and in terms of class and family background. It's a really wonderful place, and he's made friends from all kinds of different backgrounds.</p>
<p>Congratulations Seachai, Melanie, SwatGrad, AmherstGrad...you got us this time! I should have realized it from the "SwatGrad" nom de plume.</p>
<p>Rumplestilskin is your name....</p>
<p>"My kid is a homeschooler from the rural northwest, Plainsman. He's a high-financial-need kid with two parents who went to state colleges. He has not found it intimidatingly upper class at all. I wouldn't worry on that score. Amherst does a brilliant job of mixing up the student body; ethnically, geographically, socio-econimcally, and in terms of class and family background. It's a really wonderful place, and he's made friends from all kinds of different backgrounds." - rentof2</p>
<p>Thanks rentof2. It's good to know that Amherst has room for regular folks too and not just the scions of the privileged. I'm hoping for good news later this month.</p>
<p>ome is ranked higher than the other?</p>
<p>It's not that simple.</p>
<p>Choosing among Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore is like choosing among HYP.</p>
<p>All three are outstanding institutions where one will certainly have a superior academic experience, but there are secondary factors, such as campus aesthetics, location, diversity, and student life, that can make or break a student's decision to enroll at one particular institution over another.</p>
<p>Thankfully, prestige isn't an issue here, so none of the three LACs is far ahead of its peers in that criterion.</p>
<p>That being said, Plainsman should return after a few weeks, when, hopefully, he will have been accepted to many fine institutions.</p>
<p>I think that at both schools a majority of students come from upper-class backgrounds. At Swarthmore, half of the student body pays full tuition to go to Swarthmore. Still, there are plenty of people who don't come from a privileged background and who fit in here. I encourage Plainsman to focus less on things like socio-economic status and focus more on the criteria that kwu mentioned, like location and student life. At Swarthmore, and maybe Amherst, students don't flaunt their wealth. In fact, they tend to hide it.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope that students' views are not tainted by the blatant immaturity of posters in this message board about the various schools (albeit Amherst, Williams, or Swarthmore).</p>
<p>My daughter is an African American female student at Amherst. She considered both Swarthmore and Amherst. As stated many times, both are great schools. However, for my daughter, Amherst has ended up being the perfect place for her. Although she is not bi-racial, I can't imagine being bi-racial an issues since there are many bi-racial students at Amherst (and pretty much most elite colleges and universities). As a professor myself, I find issues with bi-racial students depend on their own comfort level with their identity (what type of bi-racial is the student? black/white, white/Asian, Black/Brown, Asian/Black/Brown, etc. I have a student who is Biracial (Black father, Latina mother) who looks Black (although Latinos can be of any race). The point is, you see her and she can never be mistaken for anything but Black. Yet, she only wants to identify as Latina (although she grew up with a Black dad from Mississippi and a mother from California). Obviously, her parents did something wrong in having this kid feel that there is some problem being identified as Black. She doesn't identify as both, only as Latina. So, she would have issues regardless of whereever she went to college. My daughter felt the students at Swarthmore were intellectually pretentious and the campus dead. She loved Amherst and felt the students were not only smart but more diverse in terms of interests, personalities, etc. But, again, individuals are different. I'm a huge Amherst fan and I've actually never met an African American student who said they didn't love it. Amherst has one of the highest graduation rates of Black students next to Harvard (96/94%). That says a lot.</p>
<p>I can't believe I am coming to Amherst's defense, but as one often at loggerheads with Interesteddad because of his overreliance on certain selected statistics (his latest pet favorite is Amherst's debt load, which he has expounded on at tremendous length, but I've had to debunk other sweeping claims grounded solely in the selective and misleading use of statistics), I think it would be absolutely ridiculous to choose Swarthmore over Amherst for that reason alone, or primarily that reason. There are lots of great reasons to choose either (or my favorite of the three, Williams). I mean, I look at Middlebury -- this is a school with HALF the endowment, or thereabouts, of these three schools, and a substantially larger student body to boot, and I have never gotten the sense that there is a very dramatic difference in the quality of undergrad experience, the facilities (in fact Midd has in my view the nicest overall facilities and campus of any liberal arts college I've seen), or so on, perhaps not even a discernable difference. The MUCH smaller difference in revenue streams between Amherst and Swat caused by this bond is, I am quite confident, not going to create a material difference in campus life in Amherst vs. Swarthmore (or vs. Williams, and believe me, I have every reason to say it would make a difference vs. Williams :)) over the next four years. If your kid visits Amherst and likes the setting and kids and facilities and atmopshere better, they should go there. If not, go to Swarthmore. Personally, I'd take Amherst, but I am much more an Amherst/Williams type that a Swattie type. (And by the way, if Swarthmore was the one issuing this bond, I'd still say the same thing). But to suggest, as Interesteddad seems to be, that someone who would otherwise prefer Amherst should now choose Swat solely because of this bond issuance seems absolutely nuts to me. Maybe if every single other factor is exactly even and it would otherwise come down to a coin flip, fine, consider it.</p>
<p>Now, if there is ever any event that happens in the world of higher education that cuts AGAINST Swarthmore in favor of Williams or Amherst in Interesteddad's mind, I might take him a little more seriously. But in his 5000 posts here, I seriously doubt this has ever occurred, so take it with a grain of salt. It's like he sits and waits for any snippet of bad news to befall Amherst or Williams, or any statistic he can seize upon to push his agenda, and then cites that as irrefutable "proof" of some deficiency at Swarthmore's competitors. Again, I wear my bias on my sleeve via my username. I am someone who loves Williams and has, accordingly, no love lost for Amherst. But the importance of this bond thing is way, way, way overblown by I.D. Remember, Princeton and Harvard have done the same thing, and no one is trumpeting their demise. I have a close family relative at Amherst and no one there seems to think the sky is falling.</p>
<p>NB: I also found the inclusion of the basketball story highly, highly inappropriate. Given the title of this thread, I imagine this story was somehow supposed to distinguish Swarthmore from Amherst, as if Amherst students would not react just as negatively to racism. That is insanity. If you want to start a thread about a racist incident at Swarthmore, do it on the Swat forum -- but this is a forum about differences at Amherst vs. Swarthmore, and to imply or suggest a difference in this regard is outrageous.</p>
<p>Ah... how I enjoy seeing some bond (even a heavily qualified one!) evident between Williams and Amherst. :) My Lord Jeff son said about the Ephs, "It's like they are our other half." I think the old rivalry and all the bashing is part of how they show each other the love... in the grand scheme of things.</p>
<p>Our biggest rival and best friend is the other private school across town. </p>
<p>This said, there are lots of intangibles when choosing a school, and my S would be THRILLED to get in to Amherst OR Middlebury -- or a few others as well!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
you want to start a thread about a racist incident at Swarthmore, do it on the Swat forum -- but this is a forum about differences at Amherst vs. Swarthmore, and to imply or suggest a difference in this regard is outrageous.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Maybe you should read the message immediately prior which alleged that Swarthmore was all about the "individual" and not about racial chemistry and team bonding. Hmmmm. See the relevance of the story?</p>
<p>Do you see anywhere in this thread where I have made even the slightest suggestion that Amherst is not 100% excellent in areas of diversity? No? That's because I didn't. I hold Amherst in very high regard in terms of racial diversity. I was not, however, going to let a misguided attack on Swarthmore stand without responding with a story on the exact point being discussed.</p>
<p>I have never suggested "a difference in this regard". The Amherst parent did, in a way that shows a clear lack of knowlege of Swarthmore's campus culture. But, you attack me. Suit yourself.</p>
<p>Haha, if only the students at Dartmouth were so eager and willing to take action against racial intolerance at their college.</p>
<p>Now, why can't we all get along?</p>
<p>I.D., I honestly don't know what you are talking about. I just re-read the post you were responding to, and there was no allegation about "racial chemistry" whatsoever -- on the contrary, the poster's only mention of race was that race WOULDN'T make a difference at either school. It is ironic that you accuse me of the exact same thing you are now doing -- the Amherst parent in the post you appear to be responding to did not claim any racial difference between Amherst and Swarthmore sports teams, unless "no difference" means something different than I think it means. It seems like you injected the race aspect into your response gratuitously. </p>
<p>In any event, I am glad for your clarification now. In light of that clarification, I'll retract the last portion of my post and just stick with my counter-argument on the financial issue, in that I believe this to be of far less importance than you do. Only time will tell, of course.</p>
<p>I remember 4 years ago (I can't beleive it was that long ago) when I posted a question about my D who was accepted at Amherst, and I was worried that our networth would cause a problem, and she wouldn't fit in, that a black student, a senior, an RA, answered my query, and said that if she had no problems in 4 years, neither should my D, and she always fet welcome. D is now about to graduate, and her answer to that type of questions would be the same. Neither race nor economic status hinder you at Amherst, and you will feel welcome.</p>
<p>One thing that worries me about college is how cliquey students seem to become by race. Some schools even have "theme dorms" by race. I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels. My D is half-white, half-black. She has an unsual appearance in that I recently learned even her high school teachers did not know/think she was black. She's been mistaken for everything from Fillipina to Asian Indian to Latina to Middle Eastern. She has a biracial identity. She doesn't want to be strictly black (because she isn't) and she doesn't want to identify - like the student mentioned by Impw #52 - as anything but black. Her senior English teacher didn't realize my D was half black until she met me for the first time a couple of months ago. How do I know that? After meeting me, she confided privately to my daughter that she had no idea and that "all this time" she thought my daughter was "Fillipina or something like that." I don't know why that would matter, but apparently it did to her teacher who was in a state of shock. This is a teacher who wrote awesome recommendations for my daughter. </p>
<p>I don't want my daughter pressured into the "black clique" or being labeled an "oreo" or something like that if all her friends on campus are white, or if she doesn't want to always sit at the "Black table" in the cafeteria. The idea of college kids self-segregating really makes me uncomfortable, and even fearful for my daughter's coming attempt to adapt to a college or university social scene. For some crazy reason I was thinking that maybe students at "elite" schools like Amherst or Swarthmore or Cornell were above all that. But I'm not getting that impression at all. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the elite schools and the local junior college, in this regard.</p>