<p>I have no problem with any of my kids wanting to go to a trade school. Yes, there are parents who are so fanatical that they want their kids to major in a certain subject and only go to certain schools, and I think that is way out of line. Many of us just want the best for our children and becoming self sufficient is really the ultimate goal as we are not likely to be around and able to support them for their lifetimes. </p>
<p>The crux of the problem is that the AVERAGE 18 year old has no frigging idea what s/he wants to do. Do you really think all of those kids who are going to college because momentum, parents and peer pressure pushed them there had other burning desires and plans? I don’t know too many kids, hardly any at all in three generations who wanted to go to some other trade school and HAD to go to college. Heck, if my kids wanted to do practically ANYTHING, they could do that, instead of going to college. The problem is that they have no other desire, plan or idea. And I’ve seen some of these kids whose parents just didn’t give them the push to apply to college. Many just kind of float through those next four years, not any happier, in fact most often much less happy and less prepared to make the next steps to supporting themselves. </p>
<p>My son who graduated last year is living hand to mouth right now as a performer. Many of his colleagues have been doing the same thing for 5 years now, having skipped or dropped out of college to do this, their dream. Yes, the one in a million may have hit the jackpot like Michael J Fox. But the vast, vast majority are out there no better off than they were. In the year that my son has joined their ranks, he has pretty much caught up to them in terms of contacts and info. But he has a degree, and college contacts, which is where his most lucrative work and promising parts have come, by the way. If he chooses to leave this field, he does have a bachelor’s degree, he has had calculus, history, read all of the college readings. He can go for an advanced degree, do all sorts of things that those who did not complete college can do. His BFA also provided a thorough grounding in his discipline that few can get on their own. He has had formal training in voice, music, dance, acting…all of the the foundations needed, along with what he has managed to pick up. I can’t think of a better way for him to have spent those 4 years after high school. For an 18 year old to be hanging around NYC without some umbrella of belonging, like a college, a program was just not something that I felt was a good idea for a kid his age. He is now 23 and a little bit older, wiser, more experienced.</p>
<p>Cpt, you are exactly right. Your son can go on for a graduate degree one day if he chooses because he has his UG degree. That opens up the door for all kinds of different paths. I know someone with an UG degree in pharmacy (moons ago) and she went to law school. I know someone who graduated with a degree in history. He went to a cc to take science classes and then he applied to grad school to become a physical therapist. I know someone else who majored in English and went on for a PhD in a business related subject. My last is example is a young lady who majored in dance, worked while living at home for a year and paid off her UG student loans and then applied to law school.</p>
<p>“The crux of the problem is that the AVERAGE 18 year old has no frigging idea what s/he wants to do.”</p>
<p>Absolutely true. And I have the utmost respect for a teenager who does know what they want to do and wants to go into the military, or to a trade school, etc., rather than to college.</p>
<p>But for those that have no clue - trying college is not a bad idea. It might work out - it might not. But like so many things in life, you won’t know unless you try.</p>
Absolutely. The types of situation kids face, such as being pressured to go to college, or wanting the military, or wanting to decorate cakes, are as varied and individual as they are. There are always anecdotes of every variation on this theme.</p>
<p>I will say though, in response to a comment from cptofthehouse about not knowing kids that wanted to go to trade school but felt pressured to go to college, I agree that often this is not overt and obvious pressure.
Come on cpt, I never said anything like that, LOL. Often though, parents, peers, and/or society, depending on how the kids grew up, apply subtle pressure, even unknowingly. Honestly, this will sound stupid but I didn’t know until my sophomore year of high school that nationally some seniors (many back then, maybe still more than half) didn’t go to college. That is how insulated my upbringing was, even though I went to a public school. But in this particular school 98+% went to college, so it seemed everyone did. It never would have occured to me not to go. And this despite the fact that neither of my parents went; I guess I just thought that was the dark ages and things were different, which was true to some degree.</p>
<p>Anyway, an interesting discussion that takes on a totally different tone than it would have if we had been having it 30, 40, or 50 years ago. The ability to go to college and the normality of it has really changed quickly.</p>
<p>I’m in the “give late bloomers a chance to blossom in college” camp. It is amazing what time away from home, in an academic atmosphere can do for an unfocused, “non-academic” 18 year old, especially if the college “fits” the student, where the student can be successful.</p>
<p>For a teenager who is not “into academics,” perhaps the worst place to go to college would an average CC while living at home. It’s a mind field unless the student lucks into a class taught by an inspiring teacher and finds friends who are focused on completing two years of gen ed and then transfering. The 'hook" of dorm life, talented professors, and peers who are intersted/interesting is just missing for so many of them. Very, very few of my s’s friends who went the CC route are still attending 1 or 2 years later unless they went the tech/vocation school route. Even attending a lower-ranked state college would have been preferable.</p>
<p>S2 is a non-academic and was a very avg. h.s. student. He didn’t know what he wanted to do. His sr. year he took 2 dual enrollment courses at the CC, one academic and one trade. He got a glimpse of both sides. </p>
<p>He wasn’t interested in college discussion until fall of senior yr. He played varsity football and all his friends on the team were talking about college. He applied to two “low-ranked” state u’s.<br>
He got accepted to his fav. of the two schools before T’giving. The 'momentum" was rising amongst his friends. There was no more talk of CC after that.</p>
<p>DH was dubious about the possibility of success…this kid’s SAT was below the HPU avg. listed on this thread…egads!
He took it one time w/no prep as a jr. and refused to retake. He barely squeaked into the top third of his graduating class.<br>
We agreed to give him a shot so he would never be able to say we didn’t.</p>
<p>So now, the still non-academic kid starts his junior yr. of college in one month. His first sem. freshman year was a train wreck. He really likes his school and all his friends there and begged to return. He made a great turn-around…not dean’s list…but who cares?
All his profs haven’t been great. Some have been bad. Some have made him enjoy going to class for maybe the first time ever.
So far, he is on track to grad. in 4 years, has learned to live independently, has really come out as a person and has an huge circle of friends…more non-academics attending college,oh well. Most of all he has a confidence that he didn’t have in h.s. Going off to college and proving to himself that he could do it gave him that. I don’t think he would have gotten that validation at the CC.</p>
<p>When he was in 8th grade, one of his teachers told me he would not succeed in college due to his poor work habits. His eleventh grade Bio. teacher told me the same thing. </p>
<p>Here’s to the no name schools that take the kids from whom great things are not expected.
Great things can happen at any school. Everybody’s scale on the greatness meter is not the same. That’s OK.</p>
<p>Based on what I’ve seen (looking a quantity and quality of faculty and endowment figures) it seems to me that High Point is basically an average CC with luxury dorms and gourmet food thrown in. If you think that a CC would not be good for a given “non academic” student, what would make High Point any better?</p>
<p>soze - I think the comment about High Point being (like) a CC is inaccurate given the investments they are making, but in any case you have to read the whole sentence by stillnadine and look at the context. Let’s look at her first paragraph:
And now the sentence you quote:
[quote=stillnadine]
For a teenager who is not “into academics,” perhaps the worst place to go to college would an average CC while living at home.<a href=“Emphasis%20in%20both%20cases%20mine”>/quote</a></p>
<p>The living away from home aspect is key here. I am willing to bet she would not have made that statement leaving that out, and I totally agree. Anecdotally, a friend of mine lived at home while going to a 4 year school, and a pretty decent one at that. After one year it was like he was still in high school maturity wise. Living away from home is a huge factor in all this, and would potentially be even more critical for these late bloomers.</p>
<p>So you ask
Besides the fact that it is in fact not a CC but a 4 year university, at a CC virtually everyone lives off campus and a huge number at home still, while at High Point it is a traditional college atmosphere. That is incredibly significant.</p>
<p>I will never understand the bashing that HPU seems to inspire in some people. I do believe that attending High Point or a comparable college would be a better alternative to living at home and taking cc classes for several reasons. First, there is the experience of living away from home - which is vital in and of itself. Whether it’s doing laundry, solving a course registration problem, being sick away from Mom’s care, etc. - all of these ordinary events help a teenager to become more self suffcient and self reliant - which in turn increases their self confidence. Then there is the fact that they are rubbing elbows with a more diverse group of students - some of whom are probably more academically inclined and not hanging out with their same old friends from high school who are also living at home. Finally, they are attending a 4-year college. If they can rise to the occasion and make it through - they have a bachelor’s degree rather than an associate degree from a cc.</p>
<p>If it were my son - I would pay for him to go to HPU or an equivalent college in a heartbeat rather than have him live at home and attend cc. There are thousands of students in this country who attend schools like HPU or those that are even lower on the prestige-o-meter. So what? A college education does not have to come from a top 30 school to be of value.</p>
<p>Some admissions stats from the HPU website:</p>
<p>Applications & Acceptances</p>
<pre><code>* Total Applications Received: 5956
Acceptance Rate: 67.7%
Freshman Enrolled: 1220
73% of this year’s freshmen applied Early Decision or Early Action
Mid-range SAT scores for entering freshmen: 990-1180
Mean SAT score (CR & Math) for entering freshmen: 1089
Mean ACT Composite score for entering freshmen: 24
80% of the students in this year’s class ranked in the top half of their graduating classes.
</code></pre>
<p>What I find interesting here are the mid-range SAT scores. This shows that 25% of the entering freshmen had SAT scores above 1180 - which is not too shabby. I think calling HPU nothing more than a fancy cc is just rude.</p>
<p>" If they can rise to the occasion and make it through - they have a bachelor’s degree rather than an associate degree from a cc."</p>
<p>I realize not every state has this deal, but here in Virginia a Comm College grad with a given GPA has guaranteed admission to our 4 year publics, and, IIUC, with the same tuition as at the CC. They get a UVA degree (if they got good enough grades at CC) or JMU or ODU or whatever. </p>
<p>I am sure there are students who do need to find themselves in an academic environment and will NOT be able to pull it together at CC, and need a 4 year right away even if the academics are comparable to a CC. And I am also sure there are families with enough money to disregard the diff in costs (though even some of them might prefer a JMU or or UMW degree (or their states equivalent), say, to HPU). But I would think that any student who is not at all interested in academics and is considering a quite costly private or OOS public (in this instance at prices out of line with its peers) would at least want to think fairly hard about why.</p>
<p>I don’t get the HPU bashing, either. So it’s a beautiful campus and has wonderful buildings and great food. Why would all that imply that the teaching is sub-standard? Would shabby = great classes? </p>
<p>We visited Guilford, which I love, and it is a bit run down looking. The Gym looked old but well-used as did many of the buildings. It’s an older school (at least 170 years old). High Point is fairly new. It should look shiny. Each school attracts a different type of student but both serve B students and both serve its purpose.</p>
<p>You are right Brooklynborndad, but I think the (unstated?) underlying assumption was that it was affordable. Even for the clearly academic student, different choices have to be made if finances are an issue. It would certainly be rather foolish to go into significant debt for a student that has shown no inclination for academics to date and still expresses no desire.</p>
<p>lets turn it around, why the HPU hype? Why dont we hear more about Ouchita Baptist, John Brown U, Erskine College, or Covenant College? Do they provide inferior educations to HPU? They charge considerably less. </p>
<p>I am not certain, but I think HPU attracts attention with PR and with certain gimmicky sounding amenities and programs. That does NOT mean its not a great school for many students, or even for all who end up there. But I think it explains why its particularly susceptible to bashing. Its an outlier.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is so much that it is HPU hype, it is that the thread is about HPU. Just because people think HPU has these positive features doesn’t mean they are trashing those other schools. But the thread wasn’t titled “What school are like HPU?”, it was an inquiry into HPU. Why would you talk about dozens of other schools when that wasn’t the question?</p>
<p>Besides, if a school is making the kind of investment HPU apparently is, why wouldn’t you get out there and toot your own horn? That is the way of the market. These other schools are free to do the same. These are universities, not sacred temples. The rules of business apply to them too. Invest, improve, advertise or risk death in a competitive market place.</p>
<p>maybe it seems like I hear about HPU a lot cause this thread keeps getting bumped, or cause I see it mentioned on the jewish b student thread.</p>
<p>I went to the alphabetical list of colleges to see if the other top Southern Bac’s had boards as busy as HPU’s. They don’t seem to have boards, while HPU’s has some activitiy. Now HPU is larger, I suppose. So I’m not sure. I do get the impression that HPU is more on peoples radar screens good and bad at CC than the other southern bacs are. </p>
<p>Do you disagree with me about it being an outlier? It seems to have the highest tuition of ANY of the Southern Bacs, by a good amount. I wonder if there are schools that stand out on tuition like that in other categories.</p>
<p>I get what you mean about the pushback, sometimes that is how the world is, unfortunately. I really cannot comment about the outlier part though. I don’t know enough about schools at this tier level. I am learning though. I too would definitely visit if in the area, just to see. I never would have before seeing this thread.</p>
<p>HPU gives off a very creepy vibe. If it were in a movie, I would expect an axe murderer to jump out and start picking off victims. I imagine the murderer breaking into the office where the electronic parking billboards are controlled so that when Susie Q parks her cute little car, a message like “Susie Q, I’m coming for you” or “Death is closer than you think” is scrolling across the marquee.</p>