What's the Real Story of High Point University

Parents Forum
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<p>I don’t think the posters who are skeptical of High Point’s marketing are saying that it’s ok for Harvard to have nice amenities but not OK for a “lesser ranked” school. I think they are asking legitimate questions about how a college chooses to invest its resources. </p>

<p>Once a college has a full range of faculty across a wide spectrum of disciplines, scholars of renown, and libraries, archives, museums, labs, etc. to further its mission, I think people can quibble about athletic facilities or coffee houses or steak nights. But it’s a quibble- the college’s mission is clear from the faculty roster and the supporting resources.</p>

<p>But to put the amenities before the faculty… that raises eyebrows. Not saying don’t send your kid there, just asking questions about priorities.</p>

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<p>I did not visit CMU during any special occasion. The information session was loaded with information on all of the academic strengths of the school, though no mention was made of rigor, intensity and other “warts”. The tour guides were absolutely the giddiest ones I’ve ever seen, and there were two of them. You would have thought this was one big fun school from their tour.</p>

<p>Granted, most everyone, if not everyone on the tour, at the info session knew CMU’s rep. It is a preselected group that tends to apply to schools like this. However, there are kids and parents who don’t know the nuances between a truly tough academic school like CMU, JHU, Cornell, to name a few, and others that just are not a single mindedly academic. I know when I applied to colleges many years ago, that would have escaped me. My cousin who is looking with her son, really doesn’t know these things either. </p>

<p>We did 3 tours that day in Pittsburgh, two the day before in PA, and one the day after on the way home, also in PA. I knew all of the schools already, but this was new for my high schooler. CMU was by far the most deceptive in terms of giving a picture of what sort of school it is. </p>

<p>I don’t think a school of its rigor is a bad thing, by the way. It is what some kids seek. They want that challenge. They do not want a rah rah, fun, fun school. They want a serious, focused environment. Many kids who go to such schools do so to get precisely that. But to show the school as something it is not, is deceptive, in my book.</p>

<p>No, I do not schedule visits during special days, though it could happen if one was occurring right at a time when I happened to be in that area. It isn’t a concern for myself, but for kids who, as I said earlier, can get turned off or on by the looks and demeanor of the tour guide. A bad tour does not mean a bad school. I always felt Syracuse got a bum rep from us, because it was just a horrible, terrible day son and I visited that school. Even knowing that , it’s hard to separate a bad experience from evaluating a school.</p>

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<p>Blosssom, I think you are hitting the nail on the head when you say that the priorities of the school are what can raise questions. I agree that this is a reason for discomfiture. I would much prefer to have my kids, or have myself, go to a school that put academics, teaching high on the list. However, the reality is that with some kids, those things are at the level where they would be at their other choices anyways. So the money that a school like HP puts into its amenities addresses an issue many colleges have, which is keeping students happy and interested in staying at the school. </p>

<p>If one has a student who is eager and ready for the leading edge in research in a discipline, and is chomping at the bit for these challenges, the priority in school search for such a student is the quality of the academics, the level of the disciplines and the qualifications of the professors, the other students in the classes. </p>

<p>But if that is not a main criteria, and other issue are, then HP may have something for your child. </p>

<p>I have not done any research on the school, never visited it, know nobody who went there; in fact, this thread is the first and only source of info about this school, so I am not about to go into the specifics of HP. Don’t know enough. But the idea of making a school attractive and loaded in amenities so that the students ATTENDING it are happy, want to stay there , and do graduate from there in close to 4 years, certainly is fine by me. That is a big “IF”, as I don’t know what the results of upgrading the school this way are. This is a question I would have to ask. What is their retention? What % of kids come back each year? What % are graduating in 4, 5, 6 years? The school certainly is not going to impress me a whit if the kids are enjoying their times there only to drop out without a degree. </p>

<p>I’d have to look at the courses, texts, classes and exams too. Otherwise my kid can work at Disney World for 4 years and get paid to boot rather than go to what is not a school but kidcare for college aged kids. I doubt that the quality of the courses is that poor, however. Most average colleges cover an average curriculum, and that is not so difficult to do. What is difficult is getting the kids to master it and move up to each consecutive level and get a degree. I highly doubt that kids graduating from HPU are worse prepared than many school of its kind an category. What makes this college stand out is the money being spent to make this a cushy place. </p>

<p>I don’t agree that most folks would feel it’s ok for Harvard, ivy kids, selective college kids to get the luxurious treatment. I think there would be indignation and furor if those schools with what they charge decided to make their schools into a resort environment. The fact that HPU is not an “elite” school in stats allows them to get away with this to the extent they do.</p>

<p>All colleges have been moving in this direction, in my opinions. The many eateries, the sumptuous student union buildings, the apartments being built. I was just at a college that is putting up a whole new complex of dorms, and was talking to some of the building personnel and builders who were derisive of the luxuries in those buildings for “these damned spoiled brats.” And, yeah, you had better believe the students and families will be charged for these new dorms in their room rates. So HP is a little ahead of schedule in this type of thing. If, and it is a big IF, it can make a difference in this group of kids, it is certainly a worthwhile endeavor on their part.</p>

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<p>CP, agree with you mostly. There are certainly lots of students out there who need the lifestyle type enhancements to get them through four years with a degree… and if HP has hit on the right mix of enhancements, and in fact, they do a credible job of getting the kids through with a degree, more power to them.</p>

<p>It doesn’t make them the devil incarnate that the campus is beautiful and the kids have fun. Nor does it mean that parents who ask hard and skeptical questions are being elitist and hyper critical just because they don’t ask the same hard questions at Harvard or Chicago. If you are an institution which has been educating students for hundreds of years (Harvard) or is a veritable Nobel prize factory (Chicago) then people can question if your environment is right for them, or if you are “worth” the tuition premium over their local state college, or even if your marketing dollars might be better spent on financial aid. But it would be hard to argue that Harvard’s expenses on marketing detract from its actual academic mission, or that the fancy Chicago direct mail campaign means that a physics lab will go without equipment for another year.</p>

<p>When colleges the size of High Point spend a lot of money on marketing, amenities, etc, it begs the legitimate question of “at whose expense”.</p>

<p>And for some reason every time a parent asks a question like that, a poster shows up who was accepted at a much better known, more prestigious institution but who chose High Point for the strength of its academics.</p>

<p>nope, not buying it. But happy to concede that for a kid who needs a lot of support and wouldn’t do well at a large university or even a small, academically intense LAC, HP might be a good choice.</p>

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<p>I don’t buy for one second that someone who was accepted to schools with a much stronger rep in academics is going to HP for the strength of its academics. I don’t think that is the selling point of the school. But someone might be going there for the support and nurturing they could get there. If the atmosphere is more conducive for academic performance from the kid there, then it is a good choice. That remains to be seen, however, in its stats which I have not researched. It may even be that kids play them selves out there like at Pleasure Island and turn into donkeys, for all I know. </p>

<p>So, I’m not drinking the kool aid. I’ll check it out, because I have some kids that could use a little non traditional enticements to get interested in college. If it’s a worthwhile, endeavor, and my kid loves it and it’s affordable, I’ll gladly buy into it.</p>

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<p>Just curious now, cptofthehouse. How do you know CMU was being “deceptive”? If the info session was “loaded with” academic information, and the tour guides genuinely were happy and thought there were lots of fun things to do, this strikes me as a nice balance. Are you saying the tour guides put on an act to fool everyone, that they are really miserable because the school is just so tough? I am sorry, not trying to pick a fight, but I just don’t get what your complaint is exactly. It seems like you think the school should stand there and say something like “We are mercilessly brutal in our academics. The first thing we tell the kids is look to your left and to your right, only one of you will be here in a year”. Kids at the level of being interested in CMU are FAR more aware than we were, what with all the guides and the internet. Again, I see nothing wrong with a school trying to counter what they might feel is an erroneous impression that there is nothing fun to do, or that the students are so overworked or so serious that you shouldn’t come if you don’t want to study 24/7.</p>

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<p>"Maybe they just shouldn’t even let schools exist if their ACT / SAT scores are so low. “Those people” shouldn’t be allowed to have a college experience.'</p>

<p>leaving aside the quite legitimate “is college for everyone” question, that really was not what MY post at least said.</p>

<p>I simply questioned the claim, which I have seen here AND on HPU’s Wiki article (and which I must presume comes from HPU marketing) that HPU is on the USNWR list of the “top 5 comprehensive U’s in the South” </p>

<p>I am not against marketing. Marketing can involve simply passing on the information people need to make choices. Naturally some marketing becomes more aggressive and cherry picks favorable facts - many Universities do that. But that is still not the same as actually deceptive marketing. I would say calling the USNWR Baccaluarreate U list a “comprehensive U list” is pretty close to deceptive (note again, I do not know for sure that anyone at HPU has said that)</p>

<p>as for amenities at Harvard, until a couple of decades ago there was no central student union. Movies were shown in the science center (or else you went to the Harvard Sq cinema). Plenty of dorms were fairly marginal accommodations even by middle class brooklyn standards.</p>

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<p>"To listen to CC, you’d think the world revolved around the Ivies (specifically HYP), Duke, U of Chicago, Michigan and Berkeley. "</p>

<p>Not really. If I had a dollar for every mention I’ve seen of just my state’s in state publics, well I would have lot more money than I would have saved by sending my DD to an instate public ;)</p>

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<p>" Average kids don’t apparently deserve nice dorms or amenities. Those amenities should only go to kids hanging in the 4.0 / 2400 neighborhood. / sarcasm "</p>

<p>I guess I am confused, cause the only one of DD’s reach schools we actually toured was Columbia (and, seperately, Barnard). Maybe I am misreading the stuff about HPU, but my impression is that its far stronger on amenities than Columbia. Am I wrong here? Or has Columbia fallen behind the other Ivies on amenities?</p>

<p>Or are you talking LAC’s? Again, the only LACs we looked at were Colgate and Lafayette (if you can call that a LAC). I don’t recall them being as luxorious as HPU sounded, not even Colgate (which DD nixed as too preppy, BTW). Maybe we didn’t look at elite enough LAC’s?</p>

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<p>"All colleges have been moving in this direction, in my opinions. The many eateries, the sumptuous student union buildings, the apartments being built. "</p>

<p>yes, it does look like things are moving in that direction (though not all THAT far, see my post above) and many people do not think its a good direction. That HPU may be copied by other schools in moving much further on this road seems to me to be a legitimate matter of concern.</p>

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<p>“the lack of cohesion among the various schools of the university, the number of non traditional students at the school. They talked about the Spring Fling, the Fence and pushing chairs down a hall. All the food opportunities and parties–no mention of the lack of a cafeteria.”</p>

<p>we got the bit about the lack of cohesion at CMU from Fisk, I think. Mattered to us, as DDs main field of interest is Arch (in the Arts school at CMU) but she is also interested in engineering and liberal arts. </p>

<p>I would also imagine its hard to hide when a tour skips the cafeteria.</p>

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<p>"Is this objection sort of WashU Lite … How dare a school raise its awareness profile – shouldn’t it just be modest and stay in the shadows, status quo forever? "</p>

<p>since my DD applied to Wash U, and I seem to be one of the meanies in this thread, I guess not. heck, my kid is going to RPI which under Pres Jackson is aggresively trying to raise its profile, and I am rooting them on. But they have added not only a new athletic village, but a new nanotech lab, and a new perf arts space that seems as oriented to their academic programs in acoustics, and simulation and multimedia, as to lifestyle. And their leader is a very entrepreneurial MIT physicist. And like HPU they have a gaming a major. Which, as I said above, I will forgive them cause they have a solid CS program prior to that.</p>

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<p>First of all, I know CMU well. My oldest went there. I know a lot of kids and adults who went there. So I know the reality of school life there. Also, I’ve been on ever so many campus tours since this is my fourth round. Finally, we were doing a rather intense tour hitting three schools that day, two the day before and one the day after, so the basis of comparison was recent. I have to say that the tour guides did a terrible job in describing what life at CMU is like. It was down right deceptive. There is much that is good about that school. Don’t have to be deceptive. </p>

<p>The tour was considered the worst by my son as well. I didn’t say anything about it to him. He was disappointed as he knew his brother went there and the school is on a lot of his friends’ lists. He knew its rep, and figured that it would show the best of the three Pittsburgh schools he visited that day, and it came in very much third. </p>

<p>I spoke to a couple of parents after the tour who had many questions when they found out that I knew the school well and one my kids had gone there. They also felt the tour was downright bad and did not give good information.</p>

<p>CMU is a quirky school with probably the most different types of kids you’ll find. It’s a conservatory/tech school/art school/science school/ liberal arts school. Lots of non traditional student, lots of international students, not much of a dorm community, a beautiful campus, great facilities, good location in Pittsburgh, very strong, very rigorous academics. Also, it is often said about CMU guys, “The odds are good, but the goods are odd.”</p>

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<p>Reading the Kaplan guide, the consultant-to-the-wealthy (my words) “Smitty” names High Point as one of his favorites. He doesn’t appear to be a koolaid-drinker and I doubt he receives kickbacks. I wouldn’t think he would be dazzled by amenities either. Prior to 2008 he was a public school GC for almost 40 yrs in NY. HPU must have something going for it besides the steak house.</p>

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<p>No insight from the “haters?”</p>

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<p>Anderson University #1
Anderson, SC</p>

<p>High Point University #2
High Point, NC</p>

<p>Campbellsville University #3
Campbellsville, KY</p>

<p>High Point was named to the list of “up and coming” colleges in the southern region. On one hand, that’s nice. On the other hand - I’ve never heard of #1 or #3 - so not sure that it’s much of an honor.</p>

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<p>I was browsing this site and came upon this thread, so I decided I would offer my two cents on this issue. I will be an incoming freshmen to High Point University this fall (major: undecided). I toured many schools (both in and out of state) and actually High Point was the last school I toured (I actually toured Wake Forest the same day). And out of all of the campuses, I felt that I could really see my self actually liking school. I had not really considered state schools because I really don’t like big schools and I didn’t want to get lost in the crowd. First, let me say I was in the top 20% of my class (so obviously I was not the smartest kid in my grade, but I received all A’s and B’s, no C’s ever and took all honors and AP classes). I actually had not even thought to tour High Point because I had not heard of it, but I had heard about it from a kid I knew, so I figured I would at least check it out. First of all, the campus is stunning. I know people on here say that beauty isn’t everything, and I agree its not. But, I felt that the administration really wanted the kids to feel at home with the nice surroundings. Second, when I checked in for my tour at the admissions building, they offered my dad and I snacks and drinks upon our arrival (and we very much appreciated it after our long day of travel). Just the staffs’ thoughtfulness was so much different than the other schools I had been too. On our tour I also felt that the campus had very up-to-date technology in the different majors they offered (such as the tv station equipment and the interactive game technology) which was very different from the other smaller schools (with comparable size to High Point). Now, on my first visit I was not sold. I actually made my decision the day before May 1st! I know I waited until the last minute. But, I really tried to thoughtfully consider my decision. And the reason I chose High Point was because I felt like they actually cared about me on campus (I mean how many schools give you a birthday card and balloons on your birthday?). I really felt like the people at High Point cared about me and how I felt about my time there. I did not just want to be a “number” at a state school (like when I toured UNCW the tour guides talked about how the profs had clickers at the door which was a MAJOR turnoff to me). </p>

<p>Now, this summer I began to research more about the campus. And the more I researched the more I became aware of people’s opinions that the school was just a “country club” and that it was a school for rich kids who just wanted to party. Now, I will tell you I am not rich. I am far from it and my parents made a great sacrifice sending me to High Point University (and yes I did get a leadership scholarship, but it really didn’t do that much to the tuition price because it was only 7000). I do not personally own a car (unlike many kids my age) and I feel bad when my parents spend money on me. Also, I do not party. And I do not drink ( I don’t want to, and I cannot because of meds). And for the first time I became very scared about going to High Point. I was worried that I was the only one who wasn’t rich and did not party or drink. And to be honest, I still am worried (but that’s also normal college anxiety too). I do not want to go greek (which I have heard is also a big deal on campus) and I just am a really down to earth person who likes to have fun, but I’m not into the whole party and drinking scene. But, I have still decided to attend because it is where I felt the most at home out of all the colleges I visited. I feel they really care about the students there. And I truly wish other colleges were more like High Point University.</p>

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<p>So, I figured if there were any other people reading this thread that I would update you all about my first two weeks. Well, overall its been great. I will have to say though that partying/drinking is a huge thing on campus. But, regardless, there are people who are nice and who don’t drink. There are a ton of activities too. Like I have gotten involved with a ton of things and its just been like so amazing. I’ve met a ton of new people. And the class sizes are great, I don’t feel intimidated by my professors at all. They all are totally open and nice (one even told us to text him if we needed help! ) There are a lot of very rich kids who go to hpu. But, at the same time there are also a lot of kids on financial aid. But, everyone here at the school really honestly and truly cares about you. One of my professors even has an open door policy so we can talk to him about things that my be impeding on our studying or personal problems etc. Getting into the classes you want also is not that hard. However, I do recommend incoming freshmen to go the the EARLIEST registration possible… that will help with not having tons of 7:50’s which totally suck. But, I just overall believe this is a great school. Maybe not that much what it is cracked up to be… but pretty close :)</p>

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<p>I’m glad you’re happy, hpu2014, and hope that High Point continues to impress you, but I would caution high schoolers not to consider balloons and snacks as signs of “caring”. They are marketing techniques, nothing more. And it’s not at all unusual for professors to have “open door” policies and give out their emails. Still, it’s nice to hear from someone who is so happy with his/her choice.</p>

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<p>Sorry it took me soo long to respond, not really interested in a thread where parents don’t have a problem bashing children and putting down their achievements. I thought that perhaps this thread may have changed it’s tone by now…and maybe it has, I haven’t finished reading. I just wanted to take a moment to let you know that I know all to well what Davidson has to offer in comparison to High Point. My daughter really enjoyed the summer at Davidson and found out just how challenging college is going to be. I’m not really into the bashing thing and as I said in my previous thread, Davidson was and still is my first choice for my DD, but I believe that she can get a good education and be happy in the process. Believe me, I’ve done my homework and found that if she works hard and does her part, High Point is also capable of providing an education that will help her reach her goals. Thanks for the concern, but selecting a college is going to be the first adult choice of my daughter’s life and I am going to be there to support her every step of the way. High Point, Elon, Davidson…which ever she chooses is alright with me, because I know thatat the end of the day, they are all capable of getting her to where she wants to go.</p>