What's the Real Story of High Point University

Parents Forum
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<p>Wow, I honestly am at a loss for words on how to respond to this.
(but I’ll try anyway…)</p>

<p>Your basic premise is that your daughter can go anywhere and it will not matter, any college is just as good as any other. Well, if you think this is true, why are you even bothering to read or post to this forum, the existence of which is somewhat predicated on the fact that there ARE material differences in quality and overall undergraduate experience?</p>

<p>I don’t want to be rude, but the one word that really comes to mind by your contention that Davidson equals Elon which equals High Point is this: uninformed. By almost any criteria you want to use, there are vast differences in quality between the three schools you mentioned and your contention that they are all capable of providing what your daughter needs is patently false. You make this statement that they are equivalent as though it were self-evident. Where are some statistics, facts and metrics to back this up? Don’t you think this is too big a decision and expense to make based on nothing other than your gut feeling and High Point’s marketing materials?</p>

<p>If you really believe this, then I think you should save your money and send her to a second or third tier state university where I’m sure she will receive just as good an education as offered by High Point (granted without the posh dorms, steakhouse and “free” ice cream).</p>

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<p>‘I don’t want to be rude, but the one word that really comes to mind by your contention that Davidson equals Elon which equals High Point is this:’</p>

<p>Let me switch sides.</p>

<p>There are of course a whole bunch of people who will take considerable umbrage at the idea that academic rigor/quality has any outcome on future career (the only outcome metric we seem able to discuss without judging each others lifestyles, etc) when the discussion is an elite private vs a public. Now granted, its usually a flagship public under discussion, and often one of the better public flagships, but the kind of language used often WOULD suggest that Davidson=Elon=High Point</p>

<p>After all Princeton = UVA = U Alabama = James Madison = well theres ALWAYS someone making an equation down the line. </p>

<p>The same arguments “a motivated student can succeed anywhere” “studies show no benefit to a school with higher SAT score for cross admits” “prove the benefit of the harder school” apply here as well, no? </p>

<p>Its just that in those arguments the points are made to console someone picking a more affordable choice. Here its to support a more luxorious choice. </p>

<p>Now defending parental retirements, or kids emergence debt free MAY be of greater value than attaining free ice cream, or snacks on the run, or whatever (I ask you though, if we never ate ice cream, couldnt we retire on less?) But the facts about college quality, the relevance of all the above arguments for and against equations, they should all be the same regardless, right?</p>

<p>Note, well, I tend to share your sense that where one goes to college does matter. Esp for the 90% of kids who are NOT motivated enough to take advantage of every resource, and avoid every temptation. But I dont think the CC hive mind is completely in agreement with us on this. Indeed, I think the parental CC hive mind leans slightly against us.</p>

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<p>Brooklynborndad:
Agreed…but…ash13mom’s daughter was very specifically looking to get into a health professional school (dental in this case). To get into a competitive graduate program, the academic rigor of your undergraduate institution matters, a lot.</p>

<p>Admission rates to dental school is an easy thing to find out, and I’m pretty sure that in that case Davidson>Elon>High Point (I would not be shocked if High Point has some years with no admissions).</p>

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<p>“To get into a competitive graduate program, the academic rigor of your undergraduate institution matters, a lot.”</p>

<p>I think you would find as many CCers suggesting that Grad programs look mainly at GPA and so its EASIER to get in from a “lesser” school.</p>

<p>I am skeptical of that. But I would think if the grad school admissions departments are doing their job, they are APPROPRIATELY adjusting GPA for school difficulty, and so it should be a wash, more or less. I mean unless a kid at easier school adjusts by taking it easy. But see above caveat about “sufficiently motivated” students. </p>

<p>There are also of course issues with undergrad research, possibility of getting LORs from well known faculty, etc, but I dont know that they play out as cleanly.</p>

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<p>I believe you mean professional programs in particular, not grad programs in general. I have heard and read that law and medical school admissions are numbers-driven. This is perhaps a result of the huge number of applications they receive every year; there isn’t time to evaluate the nuances of each application, so they may use a formula based on GPA and test scores in order to simplify the process.</p>

<p>Graduate schools, on the other hand—arts, sciences, and even engineering—have a somewhat more holistic admissions process. I believe this is because graduate programs are more research-driven, which requires more personal interaction between student and professor, so the professors want to admit students who can not only get good grades, but who are easy to work with, have an abiding interest in their chosen field, etc.</p>

<p>A graduate program in say, chemistry, would never take someone with a 4.0 from High Point University over someone with a 3.0 from Yale automatically. However, they might very well interview that student and admit him or her after a careful evaluation of the overall package.</p>

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<p>Just to throw in my two cents (which I think soze will collect), it has been both my experience and my frequent observation that the most important factor that makes one school academically more rigorous than another is the quality of the students themselves. This manifests itself in at least three ways 1) Students are human, and humans usually react to competition. The harder it is to score a grade in the upper part of the class because your peers are as smart or smarter than you, the harder you have to work to do well; 2) There is an old axiom that profs teach to the mid-level of the class, and in a general sense I think this is true. MIT profs certainly know they can teach many courses at a higher level and faster pace than if they were teaching the same class at Arkansas A&M (sorry AA&M, just a random choice, if you even exist); 3) Between beers and wild parties, students do actually have serious conversations outside of the classroom, on occasion. Being in a higher level environment will just, over time, cause one that also has at least some intellectual ability at that level to be more discerning in their thinking.</p>

<p>Of course the facillities, the accesability of the faculty, and many other factors make a difference. I personally have just never found another factor that makes as much difference as peer quality. This, then, is why in general a Davidson education will be a higher level experience than a High Point one. Are there exceptions? Of course. Highly self motivated students can get as good an education in many places, but they may not be as challanged as often as they would be at a higher level school. Are there great success stories from the graduates of “lower level” universities? Absolutely, we hear them all the time. But let’s face it, on the whole the most successful people from a financial point of view as well as many others come disproportionately from the higher level universities. This is due both to these students being more successful already going in, and then having their abilities further honed by being constantly challenged.</p>

<p>Having said all that, I still agree with ash316mom that, finances permiting, her daughter should get to choose her own path here. The parent can make a case, point out reasons as I just did for choosing differently, but in the end I personally cannot imagine telling an 18 year old that they have to follow my wishes on a decision like this that shapes their own life. They have to have the responsibility at some point. I know there are others that feel as long as they are paying, they still get to choose. I simply disagree.</p>

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<p>It doesn’t, but if it did, I’m sure it would be really bad.</p>

<p>Actually what used to be Arkansas A&M has been the University of Arkansas at Monticello since 1971. :)</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone disagreees that ash316mom and her D should choose the college/uni that a good academic and social fit for the D, and a financial fit for the parents/family. Rather, some posters disagree with ash316mom’s statment implying that HPU, Elon and Davidson are EQUALLY capable of getting D “where she wants to go” or that they will provide her with an EQUALLY solid/strong academic preparation.</p>

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<p>foolishpleasure - Right. And I think we all agree that some schools are indeed “better” than others in those academic considerations, on average. It is likely that HPU has the resources in terms of capable profs, facilities, etc. to provide her with a solid education. What it doesn’t have is the higher level peer students which leads to a higher level atmosphere. I have always maintained that it really doesn’t matter if a Nobel Prize winner or a quite average chem professor is teaching freshman chem or organic chem. The material, the books, the labs are pretty much the same. And a self motivated, bright student at HPU will know the material just as well as a student at Duke.</p>

<p>The difference for that student will come at the higher level courses, as well as from the other factors I mentioned. For the more average student, the lack of as much competition at an HPU vs. a Duke (or Davidson) means that they can do well with less effort and learning. I experienced this first hand while taking courses at a local university while away from my higher level school. I was self-motivated enough to learn what I needed, but I sure did not feel pushed. In the end, the same student at a higher level university will accumulate “advantages” all along the way, adding up in the end to a much richer academic experience.</p>

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<p>“I have always maintained that it really doesn’t matter if a Nobel Prize winner or a quite average chem professor is teaching freshman chem or organic chem.”</p>

<p>Probably true for frosh chem, but I don’t agree re: upper level courses (seminars, special labs classes for senions/majors, etc.). And at top LACs and small unis, students will have the oppty to begin developing relationships with the Nobel laureates during the first weeks of class.</p>

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<p>I didn’t say it wasn’t true for upper level courses, in fact I specifically said otherwise. “The difference for that student will come at the higher level courses…”. So I guess you do agree, you just have to read what I actually wrote. Organic chemistry is not a particularly higher level course, it is the same material at the sophomore level no matter where it is taught, other than the sharper students getting into more advanced material because they can get through Chapters 1-25 faster. And there isn’t a lot of discussion, usually. There really is no deeper meaning to the Diels-Alder reaction or Claisen condensations.</p>

<p>How many Nobel Prize winners are teaching at LAC’s, I wonder?</p>

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<p>just off the top of my head Bernard Malamud used to teach at a LAC in Vermont, I think it was Bennington. Oh, snap, he didnt win a Nobel, I confused him with Saul Bellow, at U Chicago.</p>

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<p>I am totally confused by your post Brooklyn, unless I am missing some sarcasm. UChicago is an LAC?</p>

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<p>I was simply sharing my thought process, rather than deleting my mistake.</p>

<p>I was about to say Bernard Malamud who taught for long years at Bennington was a Nobel winner in lit.</p>

<p>Then I recalled that he HAD NOT won the Nobel. I was confused because I was thinking of Saul Bellow, a Jewish American writer of the same generation, often grouped with Malamud and Roth. Bellow DID win the Nobel. But did not teach at a LAC. He was at U of Chicago (which plays a large role in several of his novels). U of C of course is a research Univ, though the undergrad is relatively small, and covers more of a liberal artsy span of fields.</p>

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<p>on law schools</p>

<p>this was posted elsewhere on Parents fo</p>

<p>"So, arguably, a student is better off choosing a school that is lower ranked where they are more likely to get that 4.0. </p>

<p>Once upon a time, law schools weighted GPAs based on UG institution. This is no longer the common practice, if it’s practiced at all. "</p>

<p>This was in the context of a student who wanted to go to a top 20 private, but whose parents were pushing him toward a state U (and he lives in Indiana). </p>

<p>How would you relate this to HPU?</p>

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<p>Brooklyn - totally get it now, thanks. Agree with you about Bellow (and UChicago), I have read a few of his books and enjoyed them. Still, I think my original point stands that with very rare exceptions, American based Nobel winners are at research universities, so foolishpleasure’s comment is nice in theory but…</p>

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<p>The field you would most expect to find a nobel winner at a LAC would be literature. The Nobel committee in its wisdom seems to like to recognize literature in many countries and languages. A perusal of the list of winners over the last 40 years finds very few Americans. And several of them don’t/didn’t teach at any college or University.</p>

<p>AFAICT, unless you are at Chicago (bellow) or Princeton (Morrison) you are/were out of luck, as far as literature laureates.</p>

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<p>" So I guess you do agree, you just have to read what I actually wrote.</p>

<p>I read it - - just misunderstood (my bad - - thought you were still talkin’ about the significance of higher caliber peer discourse).</p>

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<p>HPU Expands Its Growth Plan to $2.1 Billion
HIGH POINT, N.C., Sept. 15, 2010 - At a meeting earlier today attended by university and community leaders, High Point University President Dr. Nido R. Qubein announced that the university would continue its commitment to extraordinary education and the community by expanding its transformational growth plan from $300 million to $2.1 billion over the next 10 years. The plan will include expansion of academic programs plus improvements in student housing, scholarships, student life, athletics, endowment, technology, and more.</p>

<p>The following breakdown of investment means increased jobs, greater economic impact on the region and significant changes through 2020:</p>

<p>• Academics: $600 million
• Housing: $300 million
• Student Life: $250 million
• Scholarships: $200 million
• Athletics: $200 million
• Endowment: $200 million
• Campus Improvements: $150 million
• Technology: $100 million
• Campus Expansion: $100 million</p>

<p>Over the next 10 years, the university will complete a new School of Education and establish the School of Health Sciences, with graduate degrees in physician assistant studies and physical therapy. Also, the university plans to build two new residential communities, a basketball arena, library, health clinic, three dining facilities, Fifth Street Lofts, Greek Village (fraternity and sorority housing) and an admissions welcome center.</p>

<p>HPU has already transformed itself with a $300 million investment that has changed the face of the university. The campus has undergone major improvements in academics, student life, facilities, technology and scholarships that includes 28 new buildings, fountains, botanical gardens, laboratories, classrooms, learning centers and over 100 more campus innovations.</p>

<p>Recent Construction
In the past year alone, HPU built the Nido R. Qubein School of Communication, the Plato S. Wilson School of Commerce, and the University Center. At the beginning of the fall 2010 semester students were introduced to North College Station – formerly the site of Wesleyan Arms - a new living community which features townhomes and apartments. </p>

<p>Amazing Growth
The extraordinary growth has resulted in astonishing figures. Since 2005, campus size has more than doubled, from 91 to 230 acres; traditional undergraduate enrollment has increased from 1,450 to 3,300; and the employee population increased from 462 to 879. The annual economic impact of the university is $415 million, and faculty, staff and students donate more than 30,000 hours of service to the community each year.</p>

<p>National Rankings
HPU has been moving up the ranks in national college and university lists, including US News and World Report, which ranks the university at No. 3 among Regional Colleges in the South; Forbes ranks HPU in the top 7 percent among America’s Best Colleges; and Parade Magazine lists the university in the top 25 private schools in the nation.</p>

<p>The extensive growth, impressive figures and national rankings translate into a bright and successful future for HPU. </p>

<p>“Response from students, families, college counselors and national media has been so phenomenal that the High Point University Board of Trustees approved increasing the investment in this massive transformation from $300 million to $2.1 billion,” Qubein says. “Our future is promising.”</p>

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<p>Wow.
Where is all the money coming from? Who are HPU’s alumni/benefactors?</p>