<p>lol what I’m surprised people didn’t make a fuss over that at Brown</p>
<p>The names of those mentioned above are mostly from a differnet generation,when a college degree wan’t the norm ,and every job didn’t require one…good luck reaching those levels of success without one…</p>
<p>Nice list, BC, thanks for posting that.</p>
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<p>Right, but we aren’t talking about that, are we? We’re talking about people who could afford to pay for pricy privates, but simply don’t have a lot of interest in sending their kids there, which describes the kind of people GA2012, bclintonk, eastcoastcrazy and I have been talking about. It just simply isn’t the status symbol in some parts of the country that it is in others. It’s not the oooh-la-la-your-kid-got-into-WOW reaction. </p>
<p>Just as it’s somewhat provincial to live in the midwest and think of the east coast as some big scary place, it’s equally as provincial to live on the east coast and think that your east coast norms apply everywhere in the country.</p>
<p>BTW, to the comment earlier someone made about “if you don’t know beyond HYP, you must be living in the sticks,” that’s kind of how I feel when I hear people on these boards who have “just discovered” say, a Carleton or a Grinnell. Either way, you’re bound by what’s the norm in your geographic area. I don’t see why it’s hick for the midwesterner not to know Swarthmore but it’s not hick for the east-coasters not to know Grinnell. Same difference if you ask me.</p>
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<p>So? Who needs to reach those levels of success, to be successful?</p>
<p>I didn’t post those names to prove a point,i just replied good luck getting tomthat level without a college degree…and most people don’t care if you know where their child goes to school,i certainly don’t…you portray parents send their children tomprestigious schools to impress others, simply not true…and if success to you is making a grande latte,so be it…there are all levels of success,and what you deem to be successful may be,and likey is, a while lot different from others…</p>
<p>And your comment about east coasters/ west coasters thinking every other place is/should be similar to their ‘norms’ is completely untrue…i believe the world ends at 200 miles west of the east coast picks up again at the California state line. ;)…</p>
<p>cbug, it’s been an interesting discussion here on this thread. I would comment that I don’t think that discussions on CC generally have a balance that is in sync with opinions you would encounter in the general population. It appears to me that the perspectives of people who attend standard state schools, community colleges, or who don’t have a college degree are greatly underrepresented here. That is not to say these discussions aren’t of value, just to point out there’s a piece that’s missing.</p>
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<p>But AGAIN – “standard state school” means a very different thing in, say Big 10 territory than it does in the East Coast. Standard state school in the East Coast is, generally speaking, considered unimpressive, no big deal. Standard state school in the Big 10 states is considered “good” – the less impressive schools are the directional ones. In the midwest, there is no shame whatsoever if a val, sal, etc. chooses to go to the state flagship. No one goes, oh, goodness, such a shame he didn’t go to Harvard. It’s a different mentality.</p>
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<p>I never said anything of the sort. I fully get why parents send their children to elite schools - hey, I’m sending mine to elite schools! I am just COMMENTING that despite what the east coast contingent thinks, A) there is money in other parts of the country that they seem not to realize exists, and B) <em>some</em> of that money (some - the more nouveau riche) don’t particularly have a desire to send their children to east coast or private LAC’s and they are perfectly fine with their kids attending decent state flagship and having a great time, because they don’t value academic super-excellence above all else nor do their social circles require those kinds of degrees. I didn’t say that <em>I</em> fit that description, simply that it exists. But, you know, the supposedly sophisticated people of CC think that if you’re not on Wall Street or a white-shoe law firm, you can’t be making any money. They should only know the prevalence of people in Minneapolis, St. Louis, KCity, Omaha, Cleveland, Cincinnati, whatever, who could buy and sell them for lunch.</p>
<p>Not disagreeing with you on that (post #129), Pizzagirl. I’m guessing you’ve got a higher percentage of people, in general, from the Northeast that participate here than from the Midwest. Not certain though. What do you think?</p>
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<p>PG: Have you ponder over the fact that maybe these folks are ignorant of the value of education to begin with? </p>
<p>You can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn. Some people don’t value education at all. For them it’s more important to make money than to be aware of what’s going on in this world, why and how it all come to life.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can base your opinion on the basis of people just because they have money. It’s more important how they got that money to begin with as there are many unethical and illegal ways to make money. Those people are the last one to value any education at all.</p>
<p>I would value your input if you can show all those high flying CEO’s from state flagship send their children to their alma mater.
The day Steve Jobs of our world let his children go through the same path and won’t send them to elite schools then you can make a point that not everyone value elite schools.</p>
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<p>Sigh, I’m not talking about people who made money unethically or illegally.</p>
<p>I’m also not talking about people who hold positions such as CEO’s in public companies. Because really, who would want to be a CEO in a public company where your salary is a matter of public record, and you’re still at the mercy of the board of directors? I’d so much rather be the head of a private, “unknown” company where my salary can fly under the radar screen. </p>
<p>I’m talking about people who run the kinds of companies that are necessary to keep this country running. The transportation companies. The series of car dealerships. The restaurant chains. The importers who import goods from wherever. Retailers. There are tons of high flyers in this industry who live very nice lives, are good people, have nice lifestyles, hold plenty of prestige in their local business communities, give back to their communities in plenty of ways, and simply don’t see a need to send their kids to Amherst or Swarthmore to get “prestige” because those things aren’t necessary in their worlds to get prestige in the first place. Their kids aren’t highly academic in nature, nor do they VALUE their kids being highly academic in nature. Indeed, their reaction to MIT would be “ugh, what a grind, what’s the appeal of that?” And that’s FINE. Different strokes for different folks. I value a different set of things and therefore made (or would make) different choices. They don’t all have to be like me. I’m overly serious and intense and frankly I benefit from being around some of these people and enjoying life the way they do without having to worry about always reaching the pinnacle of intellectualism.</p>
<p>It’s always been my pedagogical philosophy that the student, not the school, ultimately decides the level and quality of the education attained.</p>
<p>In other words, I’d wager that there is no student (however exceptional) who could claim to have learned everything about any given subject that any given (research) university could possibly teach (including coursework, libraries, and research opportunities).</p>
<p>If you think about this, it’s true on the face. Also, if you think that there are lots of students at non-elite universities who don’t attain higher-level and better-quality education than their elite-university peers… well, I don’t think any reasonable person believes that.</p>
<p>I’ll concede that, all other things equal, it probably doesn’t hurt to go to an elite school, but given the cost and selectivity, some of the alternatives should be preferred.</p>
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<p>Let’s take the guy who owns a successful restaurant chain (I don’t mean a franchise, I mean a chain). He’s managing all the same things that a businessman anywhere manages. What does he need a guy from MIT for? He’ll hire out an engineering company to build whatever he needs - it’s their problem what employees they want and don’t want. What does he need a guy from Harvard for? If he wants management consulting advice, he’ll go hire a management consultant – that person’s employees are, again, not his problem. if anything, the Wharton guy might be most useful. </p>
<p>I don’t think you fully understand that tons of business goes on in this country every day that doesn’t involve or require the presence of elite- school graduates - and guess what ? It’s not being done “inferiorly.”</p>
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<p>That’s ironic, because you seem to value your D’s MIT education mostly because you think it will make her big bucks. How many times have you pointed out that MIT must be “better” than school X because its graduates make more? And let’s face it, EECS isn’t exactly learning for the sake of learning - it’s technical and trade-oriented.</p>
<p>I also think I’d gag a little before I used the phrases “Steve Jobs’ children” and “values” in the same sentence. After all, this is the guy who denied his paternity of his first child (an illegitmate daughter), who refused to support that child at all, and who even signed a court document swearing that he COULDN’T father a child because he was “sterile and infertile.” He went on to father 3 more children.</p>
<p>Sorry for the thread highjack…</p>
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<p>At the risk of beating this old rug again…POIH, why on earth do you presume the ivies/top 15 have some type of corner on the quality education market? Furthermore, how on earth can you make the blatantly absurd claim that anyone who purposely chooses a state school must simply be “ignorant” of the tremendous benefits (according to you, not me) of the elite privates? I hold three degrees…I’m not “ignorant” of the ivies and what they offer. We told our D it was her choice. She was extremely well-informed and chose a state school over other, so-called “elite” privates. Similarly, many of her high stat prep school classmates did the same; they elected to go to UVA, UT honors, UA honors, U of WI, etc. over privates they were accepted to like Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, Wake, Emory, etc. Their affluent, well-educated parents understand what you apparently don’t…a high quality education can indeed be found outside the ivy league, and only their child can know what’s the best fit (academically, socially, etc.) for him/her. </p>
<p>Pizzagirl…Your comments on regional perceptions are spot-on accurate.</p>
<p>^ Thank you jc40!! Great post!</p>
<p>POIH: So far, I’ve had about 5 people comment that the observations I’m making about perceptions in the midwest are spot-on. Are you calling us all liars? Do you think it’s possible that you, sitting out there in California, in a high-tech industry, might possibly have a point of view that is by no means universal and doesn’t reflect what people elsewhere might think? Or do you think that your POV is universally held?</p>