<p>1) Private schools are really not all that private. They are directly subsidized by the public in that they don’t pay tax on their revenue or investment income, they don’t pay real estate taxes, they consume public resources such as police and fire, people are incentivized to donate because they get a deduction, they receive a ton of money from the gov’t (i.e., the public) for research, Pell grants, student loans, etc.</p>
<p>2) So-called “public” schools are not getting very much money from their states any more. I think some publics are down to having a single-digit percentage of their revenue come from their state’s taxpayers.</p>
<p>So really, how much difference is there between public and private schools?</p>
<p>Generational theft is absolutely a problem. Senior citizens have had their entire adult lives to understand from a mature stance point the realities of aging and the cost of living. Why haven’t they saved up enough? It’s unfair to expect a child to be able to understand and comprehend that their idealistic views of the world are farrrr from what reality is, plus they haven’t had that entire time to save up or realize how imperative it was to their future to start saving. What happened to the American Dream? That hard work and dedication could help you overcome socioeconomic barriers? Sure, if you live in CA, VA, MI, or NC you have prestigious public schools…for cheap. But what about the majority of the states whose public schooling systems just aren’t that flashy? It’s NOT entitlement if you earned it. It is extremely competitive to get into college these days, much more competitive than it was a decade ago…or whenever old people like cptofthehouse went to college (if cptofthehouse EVER went to college…I’m pretty sure he/she just sits around all day on here hassling people)…if you get into an elite school these days, if you worked for it and sweated for it and did everything you could for it…it’s a crushing moment when you CAN’T go. Maybe make all state public schools the same tuition for in-state and out-of-state students? Our college system is getting out of control…there are many things in life that are an industry (almost everything)…education should not be one of them…and additionally education should be level playing field for the lower, middle, and upper class.</p>
<p>You don’t earn the right to a “flashy” school no matter how hard you work. Sorry. That just isn’t true. If you can’t make a success of your life by attending a state university, the problem isn’t with the school.</p>
<p>Whoever put into your head that you have a right by virtue of your hard work to a pricey private college did you a terrible disservice.</p>
<p>In Illinois, you cannot afford a public four year university as an impoverished student. We used to be able to pay for college out of our part time jobs.</p>
<p>I think this is a pretty big problem, when your instate public costs more than out of state, and out of state is unaffordable, as well.</p>
<p>If hard work doesn’t earn you the right to opportunity and prestige than what else does? Oh, right I forgot. Money. And what kind of society are we living in that you can practically buy yourself opportunity? SMH, there’s something wrong with that kind of system and something wrong with the adults who don’t realize that and want to blame kids getting 4 hours of sleep a night to keep up and be the cream of the crop and giving their all and doing so alone for just a CHANCE for that opportunity for being “entitled” just to get led on…get in and have to be let down by the money aspect. But Mr. and Mrs. Country Club who have given their child everything and paid for testing tutors and Ivy League summer programs and International schooling get to send their child anywhere…but did that child truly EARN anything? They had someone holding their hand the entire time. It is much more impressive when somebody rises from nothing and still earns that opportunity and that child should not have to choke out the words “I just can’t go” with a heavy heart because they can’t afford it. Entitlement means that you think you deserve something without having to put anything in to get it. You’re deranged if you’re disappointed children of this generation for being frustrated because they don’t get to get to go the school of their choice if they’ve EARNED their spot.</p>
<p>If we invested more as a nation in students and education, the input if you will, then the elderly, or the output, would have less need later in life. Create a more informed, educated workforce, and you will not need to invest so much in seniors. They will have made more money with more education. Think about it economically: would you rather invest in training the incoming employees or paying retired workers? Where would your money be better invested as a ceo? You invest on the input to get a higher quality output. But the government is out of whack and is not thinking logically.</p>
<p>HJong, hard work certainly can create opportunities, and will do so throughout your life. It will create the opportunity for a student to do well at a state university and do well professionally in their lives. “Prestige”, well that’s something else. If you buy into that value over more substantive values, than that’s a choice that brings a lot of baggage - carry it if you want, but it often comes with the dissatisfaction you are now feeling. Private colleges get to accept who they want and they get to dole out their endowment funds as they wish. One of those reality bites things, I guess.</p>
<p>I mean, it’s totally understandable but it’s just frustrating when unsympathetic adults like cptofthehouse don’t recognize that it really isn’t entitlement…at all…it’s not like high-income kids are complaining they didn’t get into Harvard after daddy donated a million to a new facility or program…no, these are everyday troopers who maybe come from families where there was little to no family support, where the child had to get up and do everything for themselves or fail…in my eyes these kids are deserving and admirable and I completely understand their list of grievances and why they are ranting and disappointed.</p>
On a macro level this isn’t necessarily true, which is why some ridiculously high percentage of recent grads are underemployed or unemployed.</p>
<p>One of the negative side effects of so many more kids going to college is that even the most basic entry-level positions now require a college degree. In many ways it is the new high school diploma.</p>
<p>So exactly what return would we be getting on this investment? Funding private school education isn’t going to change this equation at a societal level.</p>
<p>First, we should invest in public schools, not private. But, we should be investing in education that is needed. We do not need another psych or polisci major. I’m not dissing the major, but the future is not in political science. The future is in STEM and similar research fields. We should be investing in students who could bring new major industries to america. If we invest in those majors, there’s no question we’ll get out return back. I don’t mean to diss other majors, but the fact is, we need stem grads, not womens studies majors.</p>
<p>Do you want to force kids to major in STEM subjects? Because the problem right now is not a lack of schools offering the majors, it’s a lack of students willing and able to go into them.</p>
<p>Please stop contributing to the myth there are not enough kids willing or able to go into stem. There is no shortage of engineers, computer scientists, chemists etc. There is also no shortage of nurses or teachers. Anyone in these fields will tell you this.</p>
<p>Yes, society is entitled and entitlement mentality sucks.</p>
<p>But, we’re also doing our middle class students a huge disservice. The rich can afford college. The poor can afford college after grants, federal student loans, scholarships, and other need-based aid. The middle class student often can’t qualify for those things.</p>
<p>We give grants to poor students to attend colleges, but what can the middle class student do? The middle class student got good grades and test scores. What can they get? Nothing. Their family is “too rich” to get financial aid, but too poor to really pay for it.</p>
<p>If the high-achieving middle class student can’t get aid, why should the poor feel “entitled” to college financial aid too?</p>
<p>We’ve got an issue of fairness here.</p>
<p>Why should a middle class family who works full-time and has a high-achieving student get NO or very little financial aid (at public or private colleges) when a poor student (whose parent may or may not even have a job, who might have made poor financial or life choices) get so much more aid? </p>
<p>Why isn’t aid based on merit instead of one’s parents income? </p>
<p>Perhaps no one “deserves” aid. If a family doesn’t save up for college, why should taxpayers pay for it? This includes poor students and middle class students. </p>
<p>Sometimes the middle class can’t even get aid to go to public universities.</p>
<p>And, no, I don’t think students should feel entitled to any aid, period, regardless of their socioeconomic class. The problem many high-achieving students have is the fairness aspect of it. They’ve seen a poor student who slide by getting C’s in high school get a full-ride to some college, while they worked hard and got A’s but can’t get any aid since they’re middle class. </p>
<p>We’re also not teaching students the reality of life, nor the reality of money. Our kids don’t understand money or the true cost of anything (whether college or cars or anything else). </p>
<p>We need to teach kids about money from an earlier age. That includes the real cost of college, the average income people make, how to save money and get a part-time job as a teen, budgeting skills, how much income college graduates vs. high school graduates have, how much rent/expenses really cost, what college majors actually pay and what don’t, how much money is needed for retirement, etc. </p>
<p>We’re rewarding the poor, but not the middle class who achieve the same thing or better. We give welfare, section 8, food stamps, and more to the poor. If they poor work “too much,” we take away their welfare… so they stop working altogether or only work up to the income limit to still get welfare. We give SSDI payments for everything from high blood pressure to diabetes to back pain to depression. Since when did SSDI become for those relatively mild conditions? SSDI should be for those so severally disabled that they are truly unable to take care of themselves, the veterans, and the elderly. If welfare recipients have “too much” in savings or money left, they could loose benefits, so they spend it all. A few hours in the projects and you can easily see people drinking alcohol all day, talking on their iPhones, watching flat screen TVs, smoking, getting manicures, etc. all while collecting welfare and receiving section 8. Sometimes welfare actually pays more than working for unskilled wage earners. You can make $14,000 working full-time at an unskilled job in Alabama, for example. That’s with no healthcare benefits. Or, you can collect welfare (or SSDI for heart problems or diabetes) and earn more than that-- SSDI, plus section 8, plus food stamps, plus free healthcare. You literally get paid more NOT to work. </p>
<p>Why are we an entitled society? See the above. The first thing people do when they loose their job anymore isn’t to apply to another job. It’s to apply to unemployment. There’s rampant abuse of the welfare system no matter where you look. Some people who truly are in dire need and dire poverty need help and don’t get it. While some people take advantage of welfare and don’t work, instead sitting on their lazy duffs for years. </p>
<p>Overall, I agree our society has issues with entitlement. We also have poor planning skills. We’re too into instant gratification and short-term planning. We need to learn how to plan for the long-term future. We’ve got tons of people at retirement age with little to no savings. Now they have to rely on SS and Medicaid and hope to make ends meet somehow. They worked, but had their savings affected by multiple recessions, wars, real estate bubbles, dot com bubbles. We also need serious welfare reform, and that reform should include turning welfare back into a temporary hand-up, not permanent hand-out, to help people get back on their own two feet (veterans, those truly direly disabled unable to care for themselves, and the elderly excluded). With serious welfare reform in this country, we could hopefully lessen the entitlement mentality and make people actually want to work.</p>
This might be true for the lucky few at the richest schools. But there are, what, only 60-something schools that claim to meet full need (although for most they get to define need), and this can include large loans. And that is assuming that they can even meet their own EFC, which for many poor is not possible.</p>
<p>What the poor are likely to get at the other 98% of the colleges and universities in the country is a big fat gap which will make it impossible to afford.</p>
<p>And that’s assuming they can even get into college. There are huge obstacles in the way.</p>
<p>If you think being poor is so great, quit your job, give away all your money, and move to the projects. No one is poor by choice.</p>
<p>As someone who was poor and came from that environment, I can tell you that it is not true. I’ve known many people who chose to stay poor for all the freebies they receive from the government. </p>
<p>I also would like to add (and I know I am going to be slammed for this), but if people think being “rich” is so great, how about taking responsibility for their actions and their lives, and become “rich”. As someone who has done it myself and knows many people who also did, I can tell you that it is very much possible. All that is required is determination, hard work and making the right choices. </p>
<p>While I don’t particularly feel rich, everyone keeps saying that my family is, so I must be rich.</p>
<p>I’d like to be rich-er. In our case, every extra dollar we have made has been painful. We had student loans that were paid right about when we started paying for child care when we were both working. It’s not always possible, either. I have kids who are struggling to make enough to be independent and getting over $30-40K a year is not easy, which is why these kids who are going into the debt they are for private schools are delusional unless they truly stick it out in field that has jobs available at pay levels up there. Even then finding the higher pay jobs is not easy. My son who is a math/econ major is discovering that nailing the higher pay jobs is like nailing jello to a wall. Almost there. but. He can get a $20-30K job however, which a lot of kids who graduated with him are not getting. What’s usually out there is min wage or a buck or two above it with part time adjustable shift type work. Even for college grads. A “real” job is not easy to find without being skilled in certain desired areas. </p>
<p>Another issue, if you think it’s tough getting into the top colleges, try getting into the top companies like Facebook, Google, etc for a job. They make the odds of getting into HPY look good.</p>
<p>No, as many newly graduated engineers, nurses , etc find out, the high paying jobs even in those fields touted to be good bets for the job market are not that easy to get. We can all point to this and that kid we know who is making that nice paycheck, but that isn’t the majority of them. But statistically, those graduating in those fields are by far getting jobs and pays over those who did not master fields that have certain specific knowledge.</p>
<p>Absolutely. And it’s up to each of those states to use their tax dollars to provide their residents and their children with quality undergraduate opportunities. </p>
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<p>You forgot to mention “luck”. Because that’s a factor, too.</p>