When it pays to go to a private school over a public university

Parents Forum
1

<p>I was having a discussion with a friend who is a professor at a public university about the pros of attending a private school. I thought I would share our views.</p>

<p>We do believe that the average private school is marginally better than that of public universities for serveral reasons.
First, they tend to have better, more efficient administrations. Secondly, they tend to give slightly better grading from what we have seen. Lets face it, private schools have a vested interest in keeping these kids paying that high tuition. Finally, private schools tend to have more “intangible benefits” such as better food in cafeterias, better dorms etc. We do know that we are generalizing,which is always dangerous.</p>

<p>However, even with the above said,we believe that for most kids, it is much better for the family to send their kids to the in-state public universities for most majors than sending them to most private schools due to the tuition differential. Frankly, we don’t see that much of a difference in the educational quality. HOWEVER, that said, there are six circumstances that might warrant kids being sent to a private school:</p>

<li><p>The parents have more money than sense. If you have so much money that it really doesn’t affect your life or retirement, going to a private school might make sense. The reason is that we have found that many private schools tend to me more nurturing and probably have a slightly higher grade inflation than that of public schools. After all, private schools want to keep the kids paying that tuition.</p></li>
<li><p>Kids have special needs: If you have a learning disabled kid, most state schools don’t provide great services for these types of kids. A number of private schools privide much better servicies.</p></li>
<li><p>Your in-state universities don’t have the major the kid wants, or, if they do have the major, it is very week. If a student can’t get the curriculum that they want, private schools may be their only option.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>4.The kid got a major scholarship to a private school: Since we believe that overall, many private schools do over some advantages over state schools such as slightly higher grading, more nurturing, better administration. If a kid gets a scholarship that puts the cost of a private school near that of a in-state public school, we believe that would warrant attending a private school.</p>

<li><p>The student needs a smaller, more personalized envirnment. Many public schools today are NOT very nurturing. Many also have large intro classes taught by grad students. If a student really needs a much smaller environment because they would feel lost in a large public school then they probably shouldn’t go there. However, many states do have at least one public university that tends to be smaller with smaller classes and more personalized instruction.</p></li>
<li><p>The In-state public schools are not that good. Frankly, we believe that most public schools are pretty good even those that don’t have the “name recognition.” However, if you believe that your state doesn’t offer a quality public university then going out of state becomes more viable.</p></li>
<li><p>The student is a superstar and gets into the top tier school. We do believe, perhaps without foundation, that attending a really top private school such as an IVY, MIT and other very top school with a top name might open some doors that wouldn’t be open otherwise. In addition it would give them connections to successful kids and research programs that would be unmatched. Accordingly, these schools might, just maybe, be worth the tuition. We don’t believe, however, that a good school without the top name would have the same value.</p></li>
</ol>

2

<p>Counterargument (for all except #3 and #7):</p>

<p>The kid who attends Flagship State U (by which I mean the best public university available in his state) can claim for the rest of his life that he went there for financial reasons -- and in many cases he is telling the truth. Nobody will ever know whether he could have attended First Tier Private U if he had the money.</p>

<p>The kid who goes to Second Tier Private U is announcing to the world on his resume for the rest of his life that he could not get into First Tier Private U.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
Secondly, they tend to give slightly better grading from what we have seen.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Does that apply across the board? Could it be that private colleges attract a higher quality of students? Has the prof taught at different schools? Profs I know who've taught at top privates and top publics claim that the top students at either type of schools are equals in quality. But below the top level, the quality drops down fairly precipitously at publics and more gradually at privates. In other words, the student body at privates is more homogeneous academically. So one would expect a higher average GPA at privates than publics for institutions in comparable tiers. The argument could in fact be made that a stellar student could do just as well at a public university than at a private one.</p>

4

<p>A kid who goes to a second tier private school and receives merit aid can tell the world that they took advantage of both situations...they got a private school eduction and saved money!</p>

5

<ol>
<li>Graduating in 4 years.
Look at 4 year graduation rate at said public. If your kid is not going to be in the honors program (with perks like registering first), what's the chance he or she will be on the five or six year plan?</li>
</ol>

6

<p>Taxguy, I really do think that sometimes people sell public universities short.</p>

<p>My son is a junior at our mutual flagship state university, the University of Maryland at College Park. Its program in his major (computer science) is one of the top 20 in the country. He was part of an underclass special program there (not even a prestigious one; he was in College Park Scholars) and received a lot of good academic counseling from the people who run that program. Although he is not an honors student, he was invited into an honors course once because he had done well in the prerequisite course. He got interesting summer internships two years in a row (at NIST) through a program in which the university participates. The dorms that he lived in for the first two years were in good condition, with a spectacularly good gym right across the street, and he now lives in the nicest, most modern off-campus apartment building I have ever seen (with washers and dryers in the individual apartments -- which I find unbelievable). When he got sick during final exams his third semester, his professors and TAs were cooperative and helpful about rescheduling, and the Health Center did a competent job of dealing with his medical problem. When he was a first-semester junior, his major department invited him into a special one-credit seminar course designed to introduce the kids to the various research projects in the department and to encourage them to get involved in research with professors. Now, as a second-semester junior, he is participating in a research project (for which he gets paid) that involves substantial one-on-one work with a professor, and he will spend this summer working on the research project full-time (he also had two internship opportunities for this summer -- both of which he found through an on-campus job fair -- but he turned them down because he would prefer to do the research project). He will probably get academic credit for research during his senior year, and he may have an opportunity to be an undergraduate TA as well. Since he is considering graduate school, these research and teaching opportunities are extremely valuable because they are giving him the opportunity to figure out whether or not he would like graduate school before actually making a commitment to it. And on top of all that, he gets to see a lot of really spectacular basketball games.</p>

<p>What more could a kid want? Especially a kid who only had a 3.5 unweighted high school GPA and a 1360 on the old SAT. He wasn't going to get into a top-tier private in any event. The state university has turned out to be a really good choice for him.</p>

7

<p>One advantage you didn't mention about going to a private school, particularly one that is out of state, is a new life experience enriched by people from different parts of the country and world. Forty percent of the students at my son's private school are from out of state. Over ninety percent of my daughter's are from out of state. Both of my kids are oos. I think it's a life changing experience to be with people that are different then you in a place that is different then where you grew up. College is much more then the academics. I couldn't care less if people recognize the name of my kids schools - and in fact, they usually don't. </p>

<p>I'm not sure about inflated grading. The rumor at my son's school is that they deflate grades so it will be harder to transfer.</p>

8

<p>Marian, tell your S "way to kick ...uhhh...butt". That's what it's all about. He is stompin' on the terra. And if you can do that, at a public or a private- you are going to be A-O.K.</p>

9

<p>


That alone could be enough reason for the higher grades, if they actually exist beyond just the relative strengths of each student body. A good professor is bound to be a more inspiring teacher than a grad student (nothing against grad students! They'll learn eventually...or not.) and becoming inspired in a course, a field, or your major has to contribute to your learning, the ability to apply the information you've learned and, unless you're going to SLC (different thread I could not resist), your grade. It would appear to me to be just another CC case of finding the stats or experts to prove your hypothesis or confirm a prejudice.</p>

10

<p>What is SLC?</p>

11

<p>Sarah Lawrence College</p>

12

<p>Re grad students: Remember that they're not there to be teachers. Teaching is something they have to do, whether they want to or not, or whether they're good at it or not.Makes a huge difference.</p>

<p>I'll add #9:
The atmosphere at the flagship public U is not conducive to study or to the student. At our flagship U, it is somehow considered normal college behavior to riot, overturn/burn cars, and destroy other property to celebrate or mourn a sports win/loss. While there are plenty of kids who don't riot, it's not an acceptable environment in my mind. I don't want my child to have to "buck the tide" every day. It's worth it to pay more to have a better environment, more personalized instruction, and a more homogeneous intellectual community among the students. (And no, I don't have enough money that the extra will not hurt.)</p>

<p>And one more:</p>

<h1>10: The political process in your state has cut funding to the public universities (including the flagship) to the point where most professors are part-time or adjunct; facilities are run down; labs have old equipment; presidencies and chancellorships are given out on the basis of political connections.</h1>

13

<p>"The kid who attends Flagship State U (by which I mean the best public university available in his state) can claim for the rest of his life that he went there for financial reasons -- and in many cases he is telling the truth.;;;
The kid who goes to Second Tier Private U is announcing to the world on his resume for the rest of his life that he could not get into First Tier Private U."</p>

<p>I went to Harvard, and can say that most people don't give a darn where you went to college. What they care about is what kind of person you are (when it comes to looking for friends) and what experience and skills you offer (when it comes to consideration for jobs).</p>

<p>Probably the majority of people including many managers respect Flagship State U and even Nearby State U far more than they respect Ivies. </p>

<p>Many also think that Second Tier colleges are as good as Ivies.</p>

<p>While at a few high schools (not most!) there may be a frenzy at this time of year as students vie to get into top colleges, at most high schools students willl get some measure of respect by going to any college, even a community college.</p>

<p>In my large, well resepcted state, we have top government officials who started at community college. In my city, we have bank VPs who started at community college. No one cares. What people care about is what you have personally accomplished, and what kind of person you are, not whether you went to a private school or an Ivy.</p>

<p>Indeed, where I live, going to a private school may hurt you because the best networks are through personal connections forged at State Flagship and State Wannabe Flagship.</p>

14

<h1>10 part two. Your state funds are slashed, there is less merit money, less need-based aid and it then becomes more expensive than a private school that offers merit/need.</h1>

15

<p>I teach at a flagship state U. I will buy most of what the OP said on the following conditions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The kid attending the state U is not significantly more academically skilled than his/her classmates. I have seen those sorts of kids be absolutely miserable and even become disaffected in the classroom.</p></li>
<li><p>The state U has a culture of really caring about undergrads, and this is reflected in small class sizes at the mid and upper levels, departmental attention to curriculum and superior pedagogy, and up-to-date facilities for undergrads.</p></li>
<li><p>The state U is not just a 24/7, six-year tavern. Kids have died of alcohol poisoning on my campus. I've known others who I am fairly sure have become alcoholics.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>This is not to say that the reverse of these conditions can be found at all private schools. Far from it. Just that these things should be considered.</p>

16

<p>Marian, U MD is an excellent option for some disciplines. For its strong programs, such as CompSci or Engineering, it is hard to beat, because the professors have, or are supplemented with guest instructors who have, substantial experience in the working world, and it offers amazing job prospects in MD, DC and NOVA, for which those students are heavily recruited. And 'hidden' programs as well - Linguistics, anyone, working for the intelligence community?</p>

<p>I especially like the fact that MD is quite diverse, and that it benefits from the Maryland state tradition of celebrating differences and being tolerant and inclusive, a prominent and valuable feature of its public schools. U Maryland has an air of competence and professionalism - I like it.</p>

<p>For outcomes, my own family anecdote is my favorite. My stepdaughter's husband, ComSci MD graduate, worked at a video game company for an internship, got hired by the same company, worked for three years there, and now is a system engineer for Blizzard on WOW - one of the most satisfied people out there, and raking in considerable dough. (Yeah, you could argue it's like for the Columbian cartels - moral discussion, outside the scope of this post).</p>

<p>The aspects of MD I don't like are - it's huge, you can't always get to your classes, its size necessitates that factory-like bureaucracy, AND some of the dorms aren't air-conditioned (yeee-ikes!).</p>

17

<p>"1. The kid attending the state U is not significantly more academically skilled than his/her classmates. I have seen those sorts of kids be absolutely miserable and even become disaffected in the classroom."</p>

<p>At a state U, aren't there thousands of courses? Aren't there courses where a very bright kid can be challenged? Wouldn't he/she stand out from the pack, and therefore, get some opportunities he/she wouldn't get otherwise?</p>

<p>I'd like to think somebody can be academically challenged, even at a mediocre school.</p>

<p>Then, I guess there are schools that are better in some subjects than others.
Sonoma State, for example. I wouldn't want to go to Sonoma State and major in math. If I wanted to study education, it's a great school.</p>

18

<p>Yulsie, as I recall, Maryland was a strict Jim Crow state. And I understand that the ocean beach areas weren't fairly integrated up until the 1970s or later.</p>

19

<p>d:</p>

<p>Someone who is substantially academically more skilled than her classmates will do just fine if she likes to coast and doesn't really care much for learning. Otherwise, it's just a situation of getting As just because what's hard for others is easy for you. In addition, the class discussion in some classes will seem stupid and shallow to a kid like that.</p>

<p>Believe me. I've had a number of frustrated young people in my office who would like to transfer, but can't.</p>

<p>The quality of the competition matters.</p>

20

<p>I agree with some of the OP's points, but I do not agree that there is necessarily grade inflation at a private college, based on how the same students would do at a public college. In fact, the private college which my daughter attends is known for NOT having grade nflation. Another consideration which I do not think was mentioned already is the ability to take courses in areas of interest outside of one's major. I have three examples of this: My son was admitted to the honors program at our flagship state university (a well regarded one). At the time, he considered majoring in Physics but also had an interest in Computer Science. We were told that Computer Science was so over booked that non-majors could only take one intro. course in CS, and could not take any other classes. Second, my daughter has a strong interest in studio art, but at several public universities we looked into, most or all studio art classes were not available to non-majors. Third, my niece is an English major in the honors program at her state university. She is a very accomplished musician, but the only music theory class she was permitted to take was an introductory one for non-majors, and she already knew most of the material from her preivous music studies. These considerations may not apply to all students, but those who have a strong academic interest outside of their major should be aware of this. At the private colleges my kids attend(ed), non-majors are welcome to take any classes of interest.</p>