<p>I should have fine stats for a transfer. 3.7 at Bard, 30 ACT, research, sports, writer in the paper, music, etc.</p>
<p>MELEVINE - check out residency requirements carefully. They vary from institution to institution and state to state. In many places you can not be enrolled in school during the period that you are trying to establish residency. I know for example Michigan requires that you work full time and live in the state for at least a calendar year before applying to school. This can be an 18 month process.</p>
<p>Texas requires that you be domiciled in Texas for a year before enrollment.
[U.Va</a>. Office of Admission > Admission Information > Virginia Domicile](<a href=âhttp://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/status.html]U.Vaâ>http://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/status.html) Virginia rules</p>
<p>Just search - state name university residency - and you will get the state school rules. They are typically statutory.</p>
<p>Many years ago, my parents moved to Virginia the summer before I started at UVA. We did not qualify for the in-state rates my first year, of course. It was very difficult to convince the school that we qualified for in-state rates for my second year, even though my father was by then working for the University and had every intention of retiring there. I remember going to a hearing at which the request was denied, then at least one appeal and possibly two for which we hired a lawyer. The consideration that seemed to tip the scales was that my mother was born and raised in Virginia and still had lots of relatives there who we visited frequently in the years when we lived in another state. </p>
<p>Concerning trying to declare independence, I remember that you could not be considered independent if you lived with your parents for more than 14 days of the previous year or if they provided more than a small fraction of your living expenses. UVA did not seem to care very much about whether or not you paid taxes yourself unless you could show that you had a job that paid enough to allow you to be completely independent of your parents (including paying for school) for the full year. Maybe things have eased up since then, but you should definitely not count on getting in-state rates after one year before talking to the people that you will have to convince to grant you in-state status.</p>
<p>Here is the key provision from the web page cited above:
Q: Can I establish âin-stateâ status while I am a student?
A: If you are a dependent and your parent(s) or spouse moves to Virginia while you are in school and fulfills the requirements of domicile, you should petition for a change of status effective 12 months after the move. If you entered classified as an out-of-state student, you must present clear and convincing evidence to rebut the presumption that you are residing in the State primarily to attend school. Residence or physical presence in Virginia primarily to attend the University does not entitle you to in-state tuition rates.</p>
<p>They have a very high standard for âclear and convincing evidence to rebut the presumption that you are residing in the State primarily to attend school.â If you enter as out-of-state, it is very much more difficult to gain in-state status. If they did not make it difficult, everyone from out of state would be paying in-state rates after only one year. They are wise to this tactic.</p>
<p>To MLevine:
You wrote:
As I pointed out, you posted last year that your mom was paying $5000 to allow you to go to Bard rather than UMass, and you have also said your mom paid for your books. That is not ârefuse to pay anythingâ â that is called âhelping out with expensesâ.</p>
<p>You also called your parents âlower middle classâ in past posts. We arenât hearing their side of the story â but it is very likely that they do not have the money to pay. EFC for middle class family tends to be an amount that would be extremely difficult for most. </p>
<p>It is very clear that you did not consider other options, such as attending a state college in MA where costs are considerably less. Where I live, kids whose parents are unable to provide significant financial support make plans to get an education that they can afford.<br>
As I have posted several times, my son has supported himself and lived on his own since age 20, and is currently paying his own way through college at a CSU with no help from me. Other than small gifts (example: coffee maker) and occasional restaurant meals, I have not given him any money and he has not asked in 4 years. </p>
<p>You can rant and rave about how bad MA schools are but you arenât going to convince me that they are all that terrible compared to the CSUâs. At random, I picked a Mass state college (Bridgewater) and looked up its stats to compare to my sonâs CSU â and they are about the same in terms of selectivity, average high school GPA & test score range of students, percentage of faculty with Ph.Dâs, etc. â the only real difference was that the MA college has a significantly higher 4 year graduation rate than my sonâs college, though the 6 year graduation rate is about the same. That tells me that it is probably harder for students at my sonâs college to get all needed classes-- I know that there have been all sorts of financial cutoffs and faculty layoffs at my sonâs college â the CSUâs in California are in particularly bad shape right now. </p>
<p>Now my son had a lot better grades and higher test scores in high school than you did, and he will be age 25 when he graduates â so no, I donât really get your attitude in terms of the more affordable schools in your state. Despite the financial problems at my sonâs college, he likes his teachers there and I think its good value for the money; for one thing, his classes are much smaller than most of my daughterâs classes, and his work is graded by his profs while much of hers is graded by TAâs. My son has also had an extraordinary opportunity through his school that is probably better than anything he would have gotten at the first LAC he attended (a school very similar to Bard). </p>
<p>If your parents were rich then I could see you feeling resentment at their ârefusalâ to pay â but you have made clear that they are not. I do not think it is the responsibility of parents to pay for college for their kids â I think that is a gift that some parents choose to give their kids. For some families it is a considerable sacrifice. It is possible for kids to put themselves through college, even if not at private LACs, without taking on extraordinary amounts of debt. My daughter, who has my financial support, will graduate with far more debt than my son, who is paying his own way (and will probably have little or no debt â certainly no more than a few thousand dollars).</p>
<p>Calmom, I said that MA CCs suck. And on average, our state schools are much worse than any other states. Our flagship school is nothing compared to most states. Your comparison doesnât hold because in California you have a quality CC system so many students chose to go to those schools. No one in MA wants to attend community college, and almost everyone who graduates applied to the state schools. Our CCs are made for people who canât get into the states schools, not the people who canât afford it.</p>
<p>And, as I said, it will cost me barely anything less to go to those schools instead of Bard. Youâve ignored this over and over. My options that would be substantially less are BSC and a few other small schools. But if I go there, I deffinitely donât get the 5K (which is now up in the air anyways), which means they would cost me just about $1000 less than Bard, and Bard would actually cost $4000 less if I can convince my parents to give me money again. I actually save money staying at Bard. Iâm pretty sure I made this evident.</p>
<p>My situation changed when my parents both began to make more money and they decided they didnât want to pay. You donât know the whole of either side.</p>
<p>No I donât, but with your attitude in general I can guess why your parents would âdecideâ they donât want to pay. </p>
<p>You still havenât responded to my posts because I keep talking about MA state colleges vs. California CSUâs â both are 4 year colleges, and as far as I can tell they are of equivalent quality. The flagship U is irrelevant; you donât have to go there. I donât know about MA but I do know that here in California students often choose CSUâs precisely because they are the most affordable option for a 4-year college. </p>
<p>If your problem is money, then you choose what you can afford. </p>
<p>You have made decisions that will hamper your ability to succeed in the long run. Maybe you will succeed in spite of those decisions, but the debt you are carrying is going to be a huge barrier to overcome. You donât have to carry that debt â it is your attitude about the more affordable educational options that is standing in the way.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, I have a very distant relative who went to UMass-Lowell. I donât know the details about whether he liked it, etc. I guess he liked it enough to stay as an out of state student. He got his degree from there. He went to work for many years, and eventually went on to get a PhD. He is now a college professor.</p>
<p>There are so many ways to pay for college, besides eating up oneâs parentsâ retirement funds, strapping oneself with loan debt, or attending the âdreaded community college.â (Donât get me started there!)</p>
<p>In my state ¶, if you join the PA Guard, you can attend ANY state college free of charge, any major. Military service is not for everyone, but it is certainly an option for many.</p>
<p>Also, many federal and state loans can be forgiven, in whole or in part, if the borrower will agree to serve in specific fields within a geographical area for a certain time. Nursing, teaching, and other fields come to mind. The required service to the community will enrich you beyond measure!</p>
<p>It seems to me that the whining taking place here results from an expectation of entitlement, or perhaps, from a spoiled child. If one wants to claim adulthood, then one should act like an adult. Go out, get a job, take six or seven years to achieve the undergrad degree (if you want the companyâs dime to pay for it), and do the same for graduate school. The idea that 30 or 40 or even 50 is too old to complete a degree in law or any other field is preposterous! And, so what, if at age 30 one has âother priorities?â Iâll admit that at an âadvanced ageâ like that, one does have a fuller plate. But, thatâs what life is all about! </p>
<p>I worked 30 hours a week for a solvent company, completely unrelated to my field of study, during my undergrad years. Not only did I learn very valuable skills, I also had much of my tuition paid for by these generous folks. No one cared, least of all my employer after graduate school, that I did not obtain my degree until 2 years later than kids who did not work. In fact, I was their boss!</p>
<p>Personally, I think community college is a great choice for many kids (and adults). Those who malign them here are obviously unaware of the great things happening in community colleges. Perhaps there are issues here of more than money - pride, elitism, all the trappings of the east-coast-academe.</p>
<p>Here here to fencersmom!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It will need to be before you enroll. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Q: How long must I be domiciled in Virginia before I can be considered âin-stateâ?
A: A student, parent(s) or spouse must be domiciled in Virginia **for at least twelve continuous months immediately preceding the first day of classes. **<a href=âemphasis%20addedâ>/quote</a></p>
<p>And btw, I am also in MA and did a great deal of research on MA state schools. They are not nearly as âbadâ as you suggest. Fitchburg, Worcester, Salem and other state colleges are pretty good. Thereâs also the Mass. College of Liberal Arts, out in the western part of the state where it is cheaper to live. </p>
<p>While you donât get the same kind of âexperienceâ that you would get at Bates, you can get an excellent education at these smaller state schools. What you get out of it depends a great deal on what you put into it.</p>
<p>Of course, if youâd rather stamp your feet and hold your breath until you turn blue, feel free.</p>
<p>Youâre right. Your parents are bastards who care only for themselves, youâre unloved and your future is down the tubes.</p>
<p>Feel better?</p>
<p>Didnât think so.</p>
<p>MELEVINE, your flagship is not ânothing compared to most statesâ. It is not in the same league as a few well-funded, long-established state publics, but it is quite comparable to most state flagships, and in many respects is better than quite a few. Its College of Natural Sciences and Mathematics includes several well-respected departments, including a world-ranked polymer science department. (You are a chemistry student, correct?)</p>
<p>Yes, it has its problems, and I hope MA wakes up and improves its flagship, but it is not so troubled that it was not an option for you.</p>
<p>As I mentioned earlier, we have a friend who is a tenured Ivy League prof. with a bachelorâs from UMass. The guy is brilliant; if it was good enough for him, I think it would have sufficed for you, even if you did not qualify for the Commonwealth College.</p>
<p>My long-time best friends are well-to-do Boston residents, both have PhDs and very lucrative careers. Their son has applied to UMass for next year. It is not his first choice, but he is perfectly OK going there if his other options donât pan out. And his SAT scores and hs record far surpass yours, BTW.</p>
<p>Calmom, you obviously missed that arguments about how obviously MA schools look more competitive because less people desire to go to community college, thus more people apply to the state schools and allow them to be more selective. The actual quality of the school isnât as good as your CSUs, just the students.</p>
<p>And as I keep saying, I will definitely not get any money from my parents if I go to a state school, and if I can get the $5K from my parents if I stay at Bard, they will cost at most $1K less. You donât seem to understand this. State school is NOT an option. </p>
<p>Iâm done argueing with parents. Of course you all say that itâs not that big of a deal to go to community college; your not the ones who are going to be doing it. Maybe one day you will wake up and realise if your going to leave you kid with the option of huge loans or community college, maybe your not being the best parent you can be. Thereâs certain responsibilites you take on when you choose to conceive a child, and you shouldnât be able to get out of them because: âOh, the state says your 18. Your not my responsbility any more. Have a fun lifeâ. I donât think my parents should pay for it all. I think my parents should atleast pay the $5000 and then try to put extra money in when they have it so that my loans can be deducted even a little bit. I never said I deserve a free-ride from my parents. I just think that if you care about a child, youâd give them the most help you can without a huge sacrifice. That was the point I tried to make the first time, but people have turned it around on me as âwhiningâ. Seriously, I was just pointing out the kind of situation you can get in, you guys all obviously pointed the hardships created when you try to avoid the debt. It doesnât look fun from any angle you look at it, and I donât see how you donât get thatâŠthatâs the whole thing. If, as a parent, you refuse to help your child, you are putting them between a rock and a hard place, and there is really no escape.</p>
<p>Bottom line, maybe some parents should rethink the responsiblites you take up when having a kid. They are much more than just legal. And if you think theyâre just legal, you donât deserve to have children.</p>
<p>MA- You have a lot longer to work off the debt than your parents do. If you donât realize it, everyone answering your posts have been exactly were you are at the moment. You are looking at dollars in a vacuum. When minimum wage is $1.25-$1.65 per hour and all student jobs pay minimum, $5-7,000 tuition and $25,000 of debt is daunting. Even after graduation with a BA we only earned about $9,000-12,000 per year before taxes. When we went to professional school and took on an additional $75,000, the loans were only deferred 6 months after graduation. Try paying that on the $12,000-$14,000 that a medical resident received in 1988. Yes, 1988. Additionally, the loans were set at 91/2% interest for GSL and private loans sometimes exceeded 18% interest. That is the reason so many doctors ended up filing for bankruptcy. If they were allowed to defer payments until the end of their residency (at least 3 years 7-8 if they specialize, what you said about it being different would be true, however, the loan payments kicked in long before that. </p>
<p>You are too young to realize that the entire school funding situation drastically changed a mere administration ago (you were about 11 at the time). Everything that was planned has been sliding into the toilet for the last 7 years. Your mother is not unstable. All the things she suggested to try to offset your tuition woes were at one time possible and are no longer available.</p>
<p>Jack Welch the former GE CEO went to UMass. Enough said.
10 characters</p>
<p>Does Mr. Welch donate any $$$ ??? If we lived in MA, my kids would go there, but the campus could use some help!</p>
<p>Well, to be fair, while MA schools arenât as bad as MLEVINE makes out, the UMass that Jack Welch went to isnât the same UMass that exists today, following 10-15 years of budget cuts and fee increases.</p>
<p>
MLEVINE, this doesnât make sense. State school in Massachusetts, where you already have residency, is not an option, but moving to Virginia, where you have to fight to establish independent residency, and going to UVA, is an option?</p>
<p>You say you canât afford to live in MA if you canât live at home (yes, I well know the cost of living up here)? Maybe not if you want to live in a one-bedroom apartment in Newton or Brookline. But here are rooms for rent in shared housing in Western MA, where you could live and go to school. [western</a> massachusetts rooms & shares classifieds - craigslist](<a href=âhttp://westernmass.craigslist.org/roo/]westernâ>http://westernmass.craigslist.org/roo/)</p>
<p>If thatâs not good enough for you, then, sorry - you donât want to go to college strongly enough.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In our house, the conversation off the bat is that D would go where her grades and money would take her. I remember one parent writing regarding the money talk; if this is how much we say we can afford beleive it. If you decide to go over the amount that we told you we can afford to pay, donât think that the $$ is going to magically show up.</p>
<p>I wish had the tolerance to cry a river with you, however by the time I was your age both my parents were deceased (there was no money to leave) and I worked a full time job and put my own self through college.</p>
<p>From my vantage point it sounds like mom said she was able to help you to the tune of $5000. So in your due diligence it is your repsonsibility to find places where you stand a good chance of getting merit money, or getting 100% need based FA with grant aid so that you would be able to work within the parameters that your mom set. Maybe she is doing the best that she can (many parents donât worry their kids with their money issues). As another poster recently said, you will not find a lack of resources to loan a young person money for school, but no one is going to fund a parentâs retirement). In addition you have to have âsome skin in the gameâ and become an active participant in the financing of your education. This means taking a partime job while you are at school and maybe working 2 jobs over the summer. If you really want it, you will find a way to make it happen.</p>
<p>âIâm done argueing with parents. Of course you all say that itâs not that big of a deal to go to community college; your not the ones who are going to be doing it.â</p>
<p>Oh, is community college a new thing? When did they open? Gee, where was I back in the 70âs or my brothers in the 60âs? Community college? whatâs that? </p>
<p>âMaybe one day you will wake up and realise if your going to leave you kid with the option of huge loans or community college, maybe your not being the best parent you can be.â</p>
<p>Gee I thought I blew being the best parent I could be when I didnât stand in line to buy an IphoneâŠ</p>
<p>âThereâs certain responsibilites you take on when you choose to conceive a child,â</p>
<p>Really? I never knew.</p>
<p>âI donât think my parents should pay for it all.â</p>
<p>Thatâs big of you. It really isâŠ</p>
<p>âI never said I deserve a free-ride from my parents.â</p>
<p>No you just are dictating the terms of what they âneedâ to do. Anything less than your expectations.. means they have failed as parents. All that potty training gone to waste..</p>
<p>âI just think that if you care about a child, youâd give them the most help you can without a huge sacrifice.â</p>
<p>and what dollar amount would satisfy you?</p>
<p>âbut people have turned it around on me as âwhiningâ.â</p>
<p>Honestly, there wasnât alot of turning involved. It is pretty straight forward.</p>
<p>âIt doesnât look fun from any angle you look at it, and I donât see how you donât get thatâŠthatâs the whole thing.â</p>
<p>No most of us REALLY get that⊠It isnât necessarily fun. It might involve debt, it might involve work, it might involve the best choice possible rather than the ideal. Guess what? Most of us, were in that boat 20-30-40 years ago.. and no, just cause the numberâs bigger doesnât mean itâs changed. Alot of us faced the same problems you are, we just didnât throw our parents under the bus, we just did what it took. If it meant you missed out on some fun college social aspects, aw well. While I admit, it would be nice to get the degree and the full meal deal experience. Isnât the real reason to be there.. the degree? </p>
<p>âBottom line, maybe some parents should rethink the responsiblites you take up when having a kid.â</p>
<p>I would bet your folks, if they knew you were writing what you are⊠would consider retroactive birth control. </p>
<p>" They are much more than just legal. And if you think theyâre just legal, you donât deserve to have children."</p>
<p>May you grow to have the children your parents had⊠that would be fairâŠ</p>
<p>And I guess putting the shoe on the other foot⊠a parent could whine.. âif you were a better child, your grades and sat would be perfect. Why didnât you do a better jobâ</p>
<p>Ok Parents letâs get this rightâŠwhen we gave birth it was not about love, but instead about money!</p>
<p>How many of us thought our child would come back and slap us in the face after years of giving shelter, clothing, love and shedding tears over their rejections and illnesses? </p>
<p>Right now I am so proud of my children who have never, ever said you owe it to me!</p>
<p>It reminds me of a statement my Mom would say, âI only wish your children will be just like youâ. Mom meant it lovinglyâŠand I will mean it lovingly to my kids, because they are responsible young adults and have never been more than thankful for the fact that their parents are still in love, there is a roof over their head, and we have supported them in the good and bad times with love and respect.</p>
<p>To those who believe we donât know the whole storyâŠcanât that be said for the flip side? Donât start generalizing parents because they gave examples of how you can be a success, instead of saying your parents are horrible.</p>
<p>This will be my last post on this thread.</p>
<p>Maybe I didnât make this clear, but I have worked part time since 8th grade. Over this summer, I worked 50 hours a week. During the break, Iâll be doing it again. I sure have taken money into my own hands. I worked two jobs for most of high school.</p>
<p>Regardless of where I go, I just donât think I will get enough money to make college âaffordableâ. With the way FA works, merit aid is not compounded on top of financial aid. Thus, a state school is going to need to make school pretty damn cheap for me. And Iâve talked to many MA schools, and they donât offer merit aid to transfers. </p>
<p>Thereâs a difference in âwe can only afford $5Kâ and âwe made an extra $10K this year and didnât really do anything other than what we have been doing, but weâre not sure if we even want to give you $5K anymoreâ. I donât expect them to pay a huge amount of my tuition; I just want them to be reasonable.</p>
<p>I never said love was money. Love is caring about the well-being of your child, and that includes the lack of well-being caused by massive amounts of debt. If you knew anything about my parental relationship, things would be alot different in this conversation. You act like Iâm brat from a loving, caring family. Thatâs laughable. </p>
<p>If you providing all you can for your kid, you are doing the best you can. Not paying just because you donât want to? Thatâs a whole different story.</p>