<p>Melvine,</p>
<p>you are not getting the point, please re-read the posts and maybe you can see why the parents are so offended. Good on you for working, if you have been working that hard for at least 6 years where is your savings. S has been working 20 hrs. a week, 40 in summer for only 16 mos. he has over 3k in his savings …pays for his gas, girlfriend , movies, etc. makes $6.50 hr before taxes. Multiply that out over the amt of years you should than have about $20K with int.</p>
<p>I promised the mods that I wouldn’t really post here, but I just have to comment. Mods, please forgive this 1 time.</p>
<p>I just want to say how “Blessed” I am with my kids. I explained to both kids growing up how important their high school education is in getting into college and giving them more options. Also, as far as undergraduate schools go, which one you go to isn’t as important as going some place. Graduate school is a different story. I told both kids that I and their mom would be willing to pay for them to go to “State U”. And if they were able to get into a “Better” school, we would pay up to the “State U” and the rest would be on them.</p>
<p>Both kids said they preferred to not have me and their mom pay “ANYTHING” if possible. They knew that we paid our way through college and they preferred to do the same. Both realized however that them paying their whole way may not be feasible. They were willing to accept some assistance.</p>
<p>My daughter chose to go to “State U”. She receives a number of merit scholarships, but we did have to pay for some luition, books, dorm, food, etc… By the end of her first year, she got a job as one of the Resident Advisors in the dorm. She now gets free dorm and food plus a small stipend. Between that and the small scholarships, we only need to pay approximately $3000 a year. We had to “FORCE” her to accept the money. We explained that it was better for her grades and such to not take out loans or work a 2nd job. We conceded that when she becomes a successful business woman some day, she can pay for us to go on a cruise or something. LOL!!!</p>
<p>My son, who will be graduating high school this year, has already received 2 Full ride scholarships. 1 from “State U” and one from a prestigious school. He’s also received a 50% ride to a VERY prestigious school as well as an appointment to the Air Force Academy. He’s also been accepted to a number of other schools that aren’t that expensive; close to the price of “State U”. He too wanted to do it all on his own if possible.</p>
<p>Both kids worked hard throughout their entire high school years. They didn’t wait until their senior year with a 3.0gpa and try to go to college on our dime. Both kids were in the IB program, worked hard, created “OPTIONS” for themselves; daughter graduated with a 3.8gpa and my son has a 4.0gpa. Because they worked hard, they have options. Many schools have offered them some very generous opportunities. Hopefully, kids just starting high school will read this and realize that their parents don’t owe them a college education and if they work hard, they won’t even put their parents in the position of wanting or needing to help them. Most parents want to help, but if the kids work hard, it shouldn’t even be an issue. They can get through college on their own.</p>
<p>Anyway, hopefully this will help future students and parents. It won’t help the senior or junior currently who thinks that their parents owe them a college education. Or worse yet, that their parents can “AFFORD” it. That shouldn’t matter. I am fortunate enough to afford to send my kids to college. I limited that contribution to only the “State U”. That’s why I can afford things; because I don’t just spend and waste money. Fortunately, I am blessed with 2 kids who want to achieve success on their own. They were willing to work hard in high school, and now they have all the opportunities in the world and are reaping the benefits of their hard work.</p>
<p>Have you never met a child who comes from an affluent family and didn’t get good grades? Should parents pay for them to wander around college to find themselves? I have a friend who has paid 4 years of education and the child still hasn’t found themself. When do we stop supporting?
Yes, those laws exist, but put it in context, that is for public school, not college.
Finally many kids want to explore different routes, not everyone goes to college. My cousin went failed out after the 1st year became a mechanic and now is the GM for Volvo…not bad!
I have another cousin who went to UPenn, couldn’t cut it, came back home went to CC, transferred and got his degree. Mom is very affluent, but when he applied for Law school he paid for it, he didn’t ask for help…she would have happily given it.
There are millions of stories on both sides. What I think is more important is the person that the child grows into, not the money! We as parents have the responsibility to make our children self sufficient mature adults, not to open our wallet and say go spend, don’t worry I can always make more. When do we close the wallet? Is there an exact age? Where do parents go when they have exhausted all of their money…back to their parents, into their retirement funds.</p>
<p>As far as I know state colleges are very affordable, FL, MD, NYU, UVA are in the low 10 - 15K. My private when I graduated in 87 was that exact price and I did it on my own.</p>
<p>Bulletandpima,
UMD is $21K/year in-state…many in-state flagships are running close to $20K now.</p>
<p>Mle, by chance are you an only child? </p>
<p>“Regardless of where I go, I just don’t think I will get enough money to make college “affordable”.”</p>
<p>Welcome to 98% of the population. College is not affordable, now or then. That is why it is so special. It costs, it costs alot. That hasn’t changed and probably never will. </p>
<p>“There’s a difference in “we can only afford $5K” and “we made an extra $10K this year and didn’t really do anything other than what we have been doing, but we’re not sure if we even want to give you $5K anymore”. I don’t expect them to pay a huge amount of my tuition; I just want them to be reasonable.”</p>
<p>Maybe they are being reasonable… what honestly makes you think if they made an extra 10k that it should be yours? did you earn it? No? then why do you think you have it? </p>
<p>“I never said love was money. Love is caring about the well-being of your child, and that includes the lack of well-being caused by massive amounts of debt.”</p>
<p>Do you even know if your parents are debt free? Do you how much retirement savings they have? More importantly do you even care about their future? It may very well be 35 years between retirement and a dirt nap, do you even know if they can go 35 years without a paycheck? You’ve come off as an I I ME ME kid. That’s why I’m on you a bit. It’s seems you’re only worried about your situation not theirs. I would bet you have no real idea of the family finances.. Maybe they’re balking at the 5k, because they are starting to realize their situation isn’t as rosey as you assume it is..</p>
<p>“If you providing all you can for your kid, you are doing the best you can. Not paying just because you don’t want to? That’s a whole different story”</p>
<p>Not really… doing too much for your kids is as harmful as doing too little. Quite possibly, they’ve already done this, because you’ve poo poo’d an offer of 5,000 a year or even for one year, as not enough.. maybe that’s why they are starting to pull back from 5k, cause you don’t appreicate it… maybe your feeling insulted by a gift of basically 20k has insulted them a bit.. Maybe if you looked at it as how hard “you’d” have to work to come up with that 5k rather how hard they would, you would have said thank you, and maybe instead of thinking of pulling that offer, they might have pitched more in your direction had you shown appreication..</p>
<p>UMD is 8k if you do not live on campus, that is incredibly reasonable. Are we now saying that the child must live on campus or not go at all?</p>
<p>Countingdown, University of Maryland is about $8K a year instate and about $22K a year for out of state residents.</p>
<p>Bullet- how is a kid who resides in MA supposed to attend U Maryland for 8K a year? Tuition alone is over 20K for out of state, and even if he doesn’t live on campus he still needs a roof over his head, books, lab fees, and the occasional meal.</p>
<p>S applied to a MD public 2 years ago. When we received the financial aid statement the full cost of attendance for an out of state student was $28,000. I assume that the price has since increased. Our son was not offered a dime in merit or financial aid, so he went elsewhere.</p>
<p>That was an example of IS tuition it is not meant that go there. Please notice I listed other states, my implication was you can go in state, wherever you live at a reasonable cost. The reason I know of these schools is my s applied to them and he will be OOS</p>
<p>Bullet, MLevine has explained that his COA at Bard is only marginally higher than his COA at U Mass since he won’t get any aid at U Mass. Not every state has “reasonable” cost either for in or out of state students if by reasonable you mean a number that a kid can self finance.</p>
<p>Whether the advantage of attending a private college outweighs the disadvantages of taking out loans to pay for it is an individual choice, but I know many families in my neighborhood who have been priced out of our flagship state U. I think for some of the indifferent students it hasn’t been a tough decision; go somewhere cheaper like the local branch of the state U and live at home. For some of the more motivated kids it is for sure problematic… not every major is offered locally, if you are pre-med for example it will take you many extra semesters to graduate given how tight enrollment is in O-chem and some of the other required courses, etc. so it’s not as simple as it looks from the outside. I don’t know that I’d tell a daughter interested in nanotechnology to go major in early childhood ed just because we couldn’t afford the flagship campus (good engineering program) and she needed to go to the local branch (no engineering at all).</p>
<p>I agree with you that there are plenty of kids with minimal resources who manage to complete a BA, but let’s not pretend that it’s easy.</p>
<p>I never pretended it was easy. I have posted my own personal history many pages ago. I think where this thread has gone off is that what do parents owe their kids. Also ML had stated he was looking into UVA and emancipating himself. So comparing other schools is reasonable.
I am not and will not ever say give up your dream. I will however, say you can do it, if you want it bad enough. That is the point how bad do you want it, because many parents have given several options to get there, yet they weren’t the answers people wanted to hear.
I personally grad. early b/c I could no longer afford my private college. Took CC courses during the summer while I worked FT and transferred them to my college. I graduated 20 years ago w/ salary of 18,5K and 23,750 in loans…ff to today with starting salaries in the 40K that would be with @55k in loans</p>
<p>Bullet- agree with you philosophically but not every metro area offers jobs for new grads which pay 40K first year out. Many kids I know who are a year or two out of undergrad are working in publishing, government, non-profits, even insurance and earning 20-25K. Is it a living wage? absolutely. Are you going to be able to pay off huge debts from undergrad while saving for grad school? absolutely not.</p>
<p>“don’t know that I’d tell a daughter interested in nanotechnology to go major in early childhood ed just because we couldn’t afford the flagship campus (good engineering program) and she needed to go to the local branch (no engineering at all).”</p>
<p>If my D was interested in nano anything and the places that offered it were limited, she’d better dam sure have the grades to support it… because yes, dear there are alot of places that will provide if you have the grades to support your desires. If you are a B student in HS pretty much nano anything or med school are extreme reaches no matter what college you attend. </p>
<p>motivation usually is represented by grades and most kids with excellent grades don’t have a problem finding a school. It may not be their first choice, but god bless america there are lots of places to get an exceptional education and alot of them offer merit.. </p>
<p>What I am seeing here is alot of false arguements. Alot of I wants without I did to support the want… </p>
<p>My kids wanted the best education they could get, far more than we could provide.. so they kicked acedemic ass and got what they wanted… So I am a bit confused by some of this complaining about parents not funding dream schools… I mean what did the child contribute to the party? I want my parents to pay for a top tier, but I didn’t do top tier work… doesn’t quite equal out.. </p>
<p>Besides think for five seconds, if you do the work, get the grades, EARN THE MERIT.. Why on earth would you want to go to a place that doesn’t recognize that? Two of the shortest college interveiws we had ended briefly after the advisor said “we don’t believe in merit here.” to which both kids and I replied.. “well, sorry we do. Thank you for your time.” and left… one sat there dumbfounded as if no one ever countered that statement before.. </p>
<p>Even my kids figured it out, If your going to work your butt off in HS and get top marks, why bother with a place that tells you that doesn’t matter? They both felt those kinds of schools practiced snobbery. </p>
<p>Honestly, if you work your buns off and get the marks, do you really want to attend a school that doesn’t recognize it? really? </p>
<p>"I agree with you that there are plenty of kids with minimal resources who manage to complete a BA, but let’s not pretend that it’s easy. "</p>
<p>Find me one post here that says it’s easy… most say it can be done. Nobody ever said it’s easy… want to make it easy? ace your grades, ace your act and sat…then, it’s pretty easy… :)</p>
<p>Ok, let’s start with gov. jobs, I currently live in a very rural area due to h’s job. City gov job starts at 43K for county jobs. When I say rural <35K pop., largest city (cap. is 70 mi. away). Teachers start at 27.5K Insurance is based on sales. I have no background with publishing so won’t touch it.</p>
<p>Now our last home was outside of DC. Teachers starting salary is 40k + signing bonus. Govt. jobs atart at GS9 for college and begin in the high 50K. Non-profits paid better than gov. Did we live in the beltway, no we didn’t we lived 30 miles out b/c we couldn’t afford it. If my h who has family oblig. can commute 1 hr. a day ea way, why can’t a 23 yr old with no kids?
Who also said that grad school needed to be completed right away. I got my MBA 10 yrs later, on my own dime, after paying back m y debts</p>
<p>“Are you going to be able to pay off huge debts from undergrad while saving for grad school? absolutely not.”</p>
<p>Then I guess that should be part of your planning.. making the situation realistic vs. wants..</p>
<p>I am going to go back and say we as parents failed. We made it look so easy, where our parents were brutally honest…BTW I am only 42 (old to the 18-24 crowd), but not born in the stone age.</p>
<p>Do I think I failed…NO. My kids know that this is a partnership, we have saved, but if it doesn’t cover their dream school, than they will have to make an adult decision, take loans or go to what we can afford. BTW s has applied to Notre Dame, he has the grades and UND makes sure every kid gets enough aid merit or fin. to cover. He also applied to other school and has taken upon himself to research fin. aid.</p>
<p>Am I responsible for him to go and get a grad. degree? That will be his choice.</p>
<p>It is well established in educational research that funding more or less equals excellence in secondary school education. In some districts in my state they spend $12,000 a year per child, in the cities it is less than $6,000. So the argument that you should just work harder and get better grades is flawed. Often the opportunity is not available. Of course you can point to a case where this kid or that kid rose from underprivilege but in general the numbers hold up. Kids who are read to at an early age do better in school, so if the parents are working two jobs, didn’t go to college; the children will have less opportunity. Minimal disposable home income equals fewer computers, tutors, prep classes. You can’t just blame the kids. Join the PTA or the local school board. Demand that your representatives work for lower tuition costs. The current economy requires an undergraduate college education at a minimum, parents who do not work to facilitate this for their children have failed in one of their primary responsibilities.</p>
<p>Ugh, I just need to post this information to clear things up.</p>
<p>I am one of three. My brothers are both incredible underacheivers (both have under 3.0 in standard and basic level classes). Neither have ever had real jobs, one being a sophomore and the other being a freshman, and both get allowence. I never got allowence, just so you know.</p>
<p>I can’t emancipate myself till I am older. That’s not an option right now. If I went to UVA next year, and had residency for junior and senior year, I’d save $20K and my parents have agreed that it’s as good if not better than Bard, so they would think of giving the $5K. Right now I’m looking into that as an option. I’m also being recruited at Vassar for crew, so they might throw some money my way, but that’s not likely. I’m applying to cheap, high quality publics where I could try to get residency and high-endowed privates that meet close to 100% of need, like Wesleyan.</p>
<p>I did save. However, I also bought my own car junior year, and insured it on my own. I paid for gas on my own, and paid for all the repairs on my own (there were quite a few). My girlfriend’s mom totalled it this summer (long story) so now I have about $8K in a CD. That can either all go tuition or go to a car so I can get an off-campus job. I haven’t decided.</p>
<p>Windy,
Nobody is blaming the kids. I might be wrong, but I think you are a teacher. I have been in the educational field. It is a socio-economical issue in many areas, actually in every state. I have seen children who have been left to babysit themselves through the night so mom can work. I will never disagree with you on your beliefs. Howeever, this is not about those kids. This is about children who believe it is owed. BTW There was a tv special that shot down your theory @ college and success. It showed that if parents handed over 50K to the kids and they went into blue collar jobs, mechanics, landscaping, carpentry, they would actually have the exact same amount of money in savings at the age of 60.<br>
Finally, the current economy does not demand it. My h and I have masters and make less than the guy we paid to build our deck. Believe it or not carpenters and mechanics make $$$. I have stated my cousin, but also have another family member who never graduated from college, went to Devry and makes $60 an hr = 125K…not bad in my book</p>