When parents refuse to pay anything

<p>As the OP, I asked this question because (as I said before) I have heard a number of high school seniors who are applying to some very pricey schools (small private LACs with tuition in the high $20Ks-$30Ks) say that, flat out, their parents will refuse to pay. Yet the parents know that the kids are applying to these expensive, out of state schools. There seems to me to be a huge disconnect between what the parents are allowing/observing/encouraging their kids to do (apply to pricey schools) and what the end result will likely be if the parents are not supporting ANY of the kids' tuition. Plus, last weekend, I attended a financial aid talk at a college my own kid was visiting, and the financial aid officer said that though many families make the decision that tuition is the kid's responsibility, the federal government in essence (through FAFSA and so on) says that parents are considered responsible until the child/dependent reaches the age of 24. I cannot help wonder how these families who refuse to pay will get around this, or if they even can. As someone else on this thread said, if parents simply refusing to pay meant that our kids would get a full ride, well, wouldn't we all refuse to pay? But it doesn't work that way. I am now very very concerned about these kids that I know who are applying all over the place and don't seem to get that this won't come out the way they are planning.</p>

<p>I think it is also because the prices of college are ridiculous and not a lot of parents are willing to shell out 50k a year - even if they have it - on college when a kid can go to a community college the first two years and then to a state school.</p>

<p>Up until my senior year, my dad - who never finished college but is doing VERY well financially - said that he would pay no more than tuition at our local state school(around 8000 dollars). Only in my senior year did I convince him to pay for part of UT-Austin. Altough I applied to private schools, I knew that I would have to pay for most of them on our own. Our EFC was over 30k but I would never make my parents pay that much. There are scholarships/aid/cheaper options for college, but there are no scholarships for retirement.</p>

<p>I did get a full-ride, so it all worked out in the end. There are other ways to work things out - community colleges, local state schools (so you can live at home and just pay tuitions), etc. Yes, the college experience is fun and all - but it is it worth 50 grand?</p>

<p>hopefully the kid worked really hard and can find a school that will give him a scholarship</p>

<p>This really infuriates me. If parents have extensive means, they have a responsibility to pay. I have a friend whose father refuses to send his son to an ivy league school but just bought a new lexus. priorities, people?</p>

<p>Going to your top-choice school isn't a right. It's not necessary for a successful life. Maybe the new Lexus is worth more than the Ivy League education. After all, both a fancy car and a fancy degree are luxury goods. If the student is smart enough to get into an Ivy League school (which isn't even a guarantee), he is smart enough to succeed with a degree from a non-Ivy League school, and the parents probably recognize that. A good public school isn't so bad an alternative. And what if we're not talking about Ivies here? Is it really worth it, for example, to pick GWU or another mid-ranked private over UNC, or UMich, or a UC, just because it's the student's top choice?</p>

<p>That said, it does seem unfair to a student who has been encouraged his entire life to aim for a place like Harvard and who has worked hard toward that end. Parents shouldn't make false promises or encourage kids falsely. They should be up-front from the start about where they're willing to send their kids. I admit that I would feel bad if my parents did "lead me on," or do what ClaySoul's friend's parents did. I also admit that I'm speaking from a position of privilege, because in the end my parents did shell out the extra bucks to send me to a pricey private when my alternative was a very good public university (that probably was a "better value"). I'm thankful for that because I know they didn't have to.</p>

<p>There is no such thing as a free lunch. </p>

<p>Hadn't read FAFSA lately: D is not going for need based FA. I just love payin tuition, tickles the cockels of my heart. </p>

<p>I also do not believe that kids should get a full parental scholarship without going the extra mile and applying for all of the available $500-1000 scholarships that they are elgible for. I have promised my little darling that there will be a deduction from parental largess in the amount of each scholarship she doesn't get for failure (really refusal) to complete applications and write essays. No deduction if she applies and receives no reward scholarship award. Reason, she too should be invested if I have to work more hours to cover her tuition. I worked my way through school. Worked to pay my Hs student loans as well.</p>

<p>First, regardless of what FAFSA states with respect to dependency until age 23, a legal adult who supports him or herself, lives on their own and is not claimed as a dependent is not at dependent because FAFSA says so. They are a presumed dependent. A parent has no legal obligation to fill out the form unless they are claiming that their child is a dependent and claiming them on their 1040 as a tax deduction. Not fair, perhaps. </p>

<p>Thought I would give your info on Emancipated Minors, if anyone is interested. </p>

<p>Donate</a> to the Legal Information Institute This is really Cornell Law - Legal Information Institute.</p>

<p>This website provides links to the laws of the states dealg with the "emancipation" of minors, that is, the provisions dealing with when and on what conditions children are released from parental authority and become "adults" for important legal purposes. How is this treated by FAFSA?</p>

<p>I'm sure Cur can answer this question better than I. Looks like if a child is emancipated before they are 18, the court documents would be attached to FAFSA in lieu of the parent's 1040. However, if they just become legal adults the ordinary way, the parents are financially responsible for them until 23... unless, 1. they sign up to go to Iraq or ROTC 2. Can check off the following: At the beginning of the 2007-2008 school year, will you be working on a master’s ❏ Yes ❏ No
or doctorate program (such as an MA, MBA, MD, JD, PhD, EdD, or graduate
certificate, etc.)?
WhooHa. They didn't respect this 25 years ago. If they go to a state school and can transfer a lot of AP credits they may be half way there. Additionally, some students continue to take AP exams their first year of college. $55 for 3cr is a really good deal.
or 3. As of today, are you married? They did not care in 1985. The school financial aid office now wanted the in-laws returns as well as the parents. (answer was not just no but ---- no)</p>

<p>What they don't ask on FAFSA is whether Parents are helping support their own parents (travel to and from remote places when they are hospitalized), siblings, or have a child with special needs who is not blind or deaf (this shows up on the 1040), if the parents themselves have health issues which might require more than their medical savings account, and that they might just have some of that extra savings put aside for this, or perhaps they own an unincorporated business with uncertain cash flow or are part of a partnership that, by contract requires cash reserves. </p>

<p>FAFSA, may state that their EFC is the whole ball of wax, but there may be other things going on. </p>

<p>I can tell you for a fact that it only takes 1 year of a serious illness to go $1M in the hole. Bankrupcy courts hear about this on a daily basis. Once you have been there the last thing you want is a university performing a wallet biopsy.</p>

<p>Additionally, regarding my comment about attaching the top of the parent's 1040 showing you are not being claimed as a deduction. It will not be effective for federal aid, but sometimes it will help your application for private financial aid. Most schools require a completed FAFSA even for private grants. I didn't come up with this on my own. This is what one of my colleges had me to do many years ago.</p>

<p>actually, a car of any brand is the only investment i can think of that is garaunteed to be worth ABSOLUTELY NOTHING after a certain period of time. a college education, on the other hand, would lead to job prospects that could secure your child's future financial stability. so, imo, equating a nice car with a college education, even in the most offhand way, is utterly ridiculous. </p>

<p>jersey44: it seems that no one who posted after you has paused to appreciate your wit. "yenta for yale"? i just about died laughing. count me in!</p>

<p>A car and a college education are both necessities, up to a certain point. At that point, they become luxuries (eg, when the Toyota becomes a Lexus, and the decent public becomes a pricey private). The benefit you get from the added luxury may not be worth the added cost. </p>

<p>inspiration08, you're assuming that graduating from your top choice will "lead to job prospects that could secure financial stability." Is that really a guarantee? Financial security and job prospects are much more heavily linked to a student's individual responsibility and achievements, not whether his/her degree is fancy enough. A good enough scholarship/honors program/GPA at a good enough school are enough to land you a great job and financial security. The idea that you need to go to an expensive, Ivy-League school to be financially successful is a myth.</p>

<p>NotMamaRose, it may be that at least some of those parents have a 'deal' they are willing to make their children. One of my children has at least two friends whose parents were saying they wouldn't pay but the students are applying to expensive colleges. I found out that in one case, the parents are willing to dole out the $ but the student has to take out maximum loans and repay part or all of the parents' contribution. The parents have quite a few children and are funding their collegs by using their retirement $ and are counting on the oldest kids to repay in time to provide the younger ones with tuition.</p>

<p>In the other case, I suspect the parents will pony up the $ and the whole argument is a divorce tug-of-war as has been everything else in that poor child's life.</p>

<p>An automobile is a depreciating asset.
jersey - inspiration: that was a tribal joke that will only be appreciated by a few on site.</p>

<p>If parents are counting on the payback, I hope they feel confident in their child. I am not ready to have mine pick my nursing home, thank you.</p>

<p>i didnt say ivy league. i said "college". as in, the opposite of "no college". but no matter what kind of education or car we're talking about, i personally feel that maybe you should sacrifice the car and go with the education. </p>

<p>interestingly enough, my parents did this with my older brother. he got a full ride to the university of chicago (coincidentally, this is my dad's alma mater) but decided he would rather go to MIT instead. so my dad said, okay. i will pay the same amount for you to go to MIT as i will pay for you to go to Chicago (nothing). now, im not sure of the details, but my brother took out loans and got a work/study job, as well as some FA. and he paid for MIT himself. (he even took a fifth year because he didnt finish his P.E. requirement...thats another story because my brother is lazy and ridiculous). and he always said he didnt regret a minute of it. so a few years after he graduated (im much younger, if you gathered), he and his girlfriend wanted to get married, but he had too much college debt to feel comfortable with that, or something. so my dad paid it ALL off. every cent of it, and bought them a house. and he was like, you proved you were willing to work for what you wanted to the extreme, and im proud of you so this is your present. </p>

<p>ive always said it wont work with me because i know the trick- it gets paid off later, haha.</p>

<p>that is why you study your as s off in hs. plain and simple. </p>

<p>There is plan A, B & C for college.</p>

<p>A. mommy and daddy pay
b. you pay
c. somebody else pays</p>

<p>So crossing A off the list that leaves B or C... </p>

<p>I have no hard feelings towards parents who say no. It is not a obligation to pay for college, it's a gift. Shame on ANY kid who doesn't appriecate a parent who bucks up..... and shame on anybody who shames a parent who doesn't. </p>

<p>Because maybe they really can't, maybe their upper middleclass income is stretched beyond belief and the piddly amount of retirement savings aren't there... maybe they have to take care of themselves first.. </p>

<p>I had no choice but to work my way through college IF I wanted a college education. My parents were in no position to buck up for state college. We preferred the term poor white rubbish... </p>

<p>It took a while longer but it can be done. </p>

<p>I do empathize to a point with these situations. but on the other hand, character is earned, not given... my kids worked their behinds off to get an education at places we simply could not afford. Now their college monies are being saved for a home down payment. Yes, I gave both my kids the ABC speech in HS. Especially after son blew off a $15,000 scholarship because he couldn't write 750 words on the subject... when I was done yelling the point across, he got the message, plan B or C if he was too busy to try for scholarhsips... because the only A he was gonna get if he didn't make the effort was the one he sits on. which was bound to be a bit uncomfortable with my foot stuck in it. </p>

<p>And yes, I love my son and he loves me... If it was all warm and cuddly well sheez... He got into his school and now is in med school. Undergrad was mostly plan C.</p>

<p>Had a funny conversation with someone a while back. Told them I was a professional student for about 12 years. Their response was "your poor parents, it must have cost them a fortune." They then told me about their son, now in the 7th year studying towards his BS, and how he was costing them a fortune. </p>

<p>I stopped them immediately to explain that I was a 'professional student,' like all professionals, I worked hard in college, received good grades and merit scholarships to pay my way. I found grants to support my research and had teaching fellowships to pay rent. Being a college student was, therefore, my profession. Their son was not a professional student, he was a parasite.</p>

<p>I agree with Opie. Regardless of your ability to pay all or some of your child's education, if they are not willing to apply for the aid that they can compete for, it is not your responsibility as parents to fork out the lost opportunity costs. They have to claim ownership of their education and take some responsibility as well.</p>

<p>I wouldn't go so far as to call the kid a parasite. Isn't that a bit nasty? After all, the parents are the ones coddling him/enabling the so-called "parasitism" by agreeing to pay.</p>

<p>I'm not talking about parents who can't pay, parents whose middle class incomes are stretched by debt or caring for their parents or medical bills or need money for retirement. I'm not talking about low income families who can't pay no matter what. I'm talking about upper class families with every ability to pay but choose not to. </p>

<p>So stop talking about how noble you were to work your way through college because your parents couldn't pay. That's not what this thread is about. Good for you. GREAT for you (i'm being serious), but that distracts from the OP's point. </p>

<p>Furthermore, I fundamentally disagree with you that parents don't have a responsibility to help their children with college IF they can afford it. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not a self-entitled brat. I'm incredibly grateful for the money my parents contribute to my education. I also work and take out loans. But IF a parent CAN afford to pay for the education, they should choose the education, not the lexus. </p>

<p>An expensive education is not a luxury good the same way a luxury car is. There are things (real, tangible, valuable things) you can get from going to Harvard that you just can't get from going to Oregon State. I'm not talking results, you can have great results anywhere. I'm talking about the experience. And if you can afford it, why would you deny your child that experience? So you can buy a fancy car for yourself? One could argue that a child needs to make it on their own, pave their own way. But when so many schools operate on need-only financial aid, you've just cut off a world of options for your kid. </p>

<p>UnivMom -- In most cases, those $500-$1000 scholarships get deducted dollar for dollar from your finaid package, so if you want to go to a school that offers only need based aid (which more and more schools are doing), those scholarships are completely worthless unless you get zero financial aid. The only way is loans, which as mentioned before are very limited, or for your parents to "fork over the money"</p>

<p>Show me a parent who forced their kid to go to Oregon State over Harvard after the kid was accepted. I know only one case similar to that, and finances didn't drive the parents' decision.</p>

<p>For those parents who tell their kids that they won't pay them, I actually aplaud you. A good taste of real world finances is good for students to learn. In the far far far far distant future when I have kids, I will give them a college fund and say it is theirs. Whatever they don't spend on college is theirs for the taking, so be wise. This is just me though.</p>

<p>Regardless of who did the enabling, he was a parasite none the less. I know plenty of kids like this. Parents paid their entire way through grad school, even law school. Then they act like they're so special b/c they're doing well in school. Who the hell couldn't under those circumstances. To me, being 24 years old and having your parents still pay your phone bill, plane tickets, gas card, etc. is just pathetic. </p>

<p>While my parents are by no means poor, the $30k EFC once assigned to me in no way accurately reflected the real picture. I took some time off to work, travel....saved up, went back to community college. Now I'm 24, eligible for grants/bigger loans, and am looking to transfer to some very good schools. I feel the experience I've had living on my own has matured me light years ahead of some of my more spoiled friends.</p>

<p>dukie11 -- it happens all the time. just read this thread. that's what this thread is about. </p>

<p>jclay2 -- how is being shut out of many great schools because of the need based aid system at all a taste of real world finances? it's a taste of the screwed up college tuition system. good luck to you that you will be able to afford a college fund for your kids, and i hope that you will be kind enough to give it to them.</p>

<p>My D got some mail from B of A about student loans (taken out by students themselves). I've been interested in this question of whether a student could even finance a private school education by taking out student loans. I've always assumed that there was no way a student could get big loans. So I looked up the info on the B of A website.</p>

<p>A student can borrow up to $40K a year with a lifetime cap of $130K. So already, a student won't be able to privately borrow enough money to get through 4 years at a private university (where tuition, room and board is running close to $50 K a year).</p>

<p>The website said that if the student got a co-signer, he would have a better chance of qualifying for loans with a lower interest rate and lower origination fees. </p>

<p>Interest=LIBOR plus 3.5%-8%. LIBOR is running about 4.5-5%. So if you don't get a co-signer, you're talking about a student loan charging 13% interest.</p>

<p>OUCH!</p>

<p>I would be interested to hear about any kid who actually got a big loan to pay his way through an expensive college all by himself.</p>