When parents refuse to pay anything

Parents Forum
41

<p>


"Many years ago" is not pertinent to procedures today.</p>

<p>"Many years ago" I was able to establish California residency and avoid out-of-state tuition in my latter years of college while attending a UC merely by staying in California year-round in an off-campus apartment and registering to vote in Calif. That's a door that has long since been shut.</p>

<p>I know you want to help, but it is frustrating to those of us who are very familiar with the current financial aid system to see people posting misleading information on the boards. The laws and procedures have changed tremendously over the years -- if you are curious and want to get a sense of the history, you can read this page: FinAid</a> | FinAid for Educators and FAAs | History of Student Financial Aid</p>

<p>Private schools are not going to be more lenient than public schools when it comes to evaluating circumstances, unless merit aid is involved; if anything, the private schools expect more from parents because colleges that use "institutional" methodology want to know about the assets of noncustodial parents. Obviously it can't hurt to attach any documentation that the student thinks will support their application -- but unfortunately proof that they are no longer dependent for tax purposes is not going to cut it.</p>

42

<p>I attend Dartmouth College, and I recently heard of a special fund which helps students whose parents refuse to pay for school. The Bourne Fund is designed for LGBTQA students who have been financially disowned by their parents because of their gender identity or sexual orientation and is given by the Dartmouth Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Alumni/ae Association.</p>

<p>Although Dartmouth has a relatively conservative reputation among the Ivy League, I continue to be impressed by the open-mindedness and generosity of our alumni/ae and students.</p>

43

<h1>35:
[quote]
I'm talking about upper class families with every ability to pay but choose not to.

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</h1>

<p>This seems pretty obvious to me. Unless the parents are complete lunatics, something has gone bad with kids like this, and the parents just want them out of their lives and on their own for now. Tough love. </p>

<p>Imagine a nice kid at 12 with a lot of potential, who at 13 decides to party for the next 5 years, openly despise his parents and their values, hang out with the wrong crowd, and loaf his way through high school. Heartbreaking. But no surprise that the parents say, "Expensive College, are you kidding?" Well, it would not surprise me, but a lot of 17-year olds in this situation seem to be surprised when they find out the party is over.</p>

44

<p>It happens very frequently with divorced parents; if nothing in divorce settlement about college, non-custodial dad doesn't pay. And if the parents divorced when the kid was four and they didn't have much $, the settlement might say dad has to pay x percent of State College tuition. Years later, dad might be making over $200,000 a year, has another family, and has no interest in sending kid to Harvard. Yes, most divorced dads want the best for their kids, but I think we all know someone in such unfortunate circumstances.</p>

45

<p>Just want to say that S, 19, a college freshman, has been paying for his expensive LAC with a large loan (that H co-signed for), merit aid and his savings from his year volunteering with Americorps. He did not qualify for need-based aid, and H and I haven't chipped in anything.</p>

<p>Some of his friends are aware of his situation, and have dropped hints that H and I should be pitching in. They probably also noticed that while S was pinching pennies, I had a nice trip to Asia. </p>

<p>What they don't know is that when S was a h.s. senior, H and I warned him that if he had the kind of senioritis that his older brother had, S would have to pay for his first year of college. H and I would begin paying for college only if S got the grades in college that showed he was serious: This means at least a 3.0 gpa. </p>

<p>Senior year, older S stopped studying and barely graduated despite being NM commended, etc. He always had gotten grades below his capabilities, but this was ridiculous! Afterward, he went off to college and flunked out despite being one of the top students at the college -- which was a place that he loved (for EC and location reasons). </p>

<p>Younger S ended up procrastinating on his homework so much second semester that we didn't know whether he'd graduate until 10 days before graduation when he got his past due papers in. Despite having SAT cr, m that were 99th percentile, he graduated with a 2.5 unweighted (He had slacked through h.s., but senior year took the cake!).</p>

<p>Anyway, what looks unfair to people on the outside looks very different to S (who has never complained about the consequences), H and me. Meanwhile, S is very happy at his LAC, and when H and I visited, we were impressed to learn that S has a reputation as the "guy who's always studying in the library." That comment was made by one of his acquaintances whom we bumped into. Her name had already come up because some other students had described her as the student "who's always studying in the library."</p>

<p>In addition to studying, S also is very active in several clubs that have to do with his community service and arts interests, so it seems that having to take the responsibility of paying for the college of his choice has helped him get the most out of his college experience. </p>

<p>So, before judging the parents who refuse to pay for their students' college hear the parents' side of the story. </p>

<p>I remember thinking it was unfair that the parents of my older S's best friend made the kid stay in town and go to community college even though the friend had been accepted at 4-year colleges that were in locations he preferred. Of course, I had heard about this through older S and his friend, who didn't bother to let me know that the friend's parents did this because the boy's grades were so low.</p>

<p>The young man ended up living at home and getting his AA with top grades, and then getting merit aid to our state's flagship, where he graduated with honors. He is planning on going to law school. Meanwhile, my slacker older S flunked out of his 4-year college that was in a state that he loved, and he never went back to college.</p>

46

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<p>Well...it would be nice if they helped out, but there are a lot of unknowns in this statement. First of all, even with families who appear to have the "means" there could be extensive debt, large mortgage, high standard of living with costs, or other sibs either in or near college age. OR the parents could have their "means" locked up in retirement accounts. OR OR OR. Yes, it would be nice to think that parents with the means to do so will contribute and yes, the finaid applications assume that this will be the case. BUT the most important thing for high school seniors to do BEFORE they send the applications, is sit down with their families and discuss the finances of college, and what the family is WILLING and WILL contribute. Yes, for some students, this will restrict their college APPLICATION choices. OR students should be aware that if financial aid awards do not materialize they might not be able to attend University #1. Sadly, many families do not have this discussion and each year, there are students who are disappointed when they cannot meet the cost of a top choice school. Still...most students enroll in a college, and get their degrees, and it all turns out well...if the student is open to options which do meet the family financial picture.</p>

47

<p>"If parents are counting on the payback, I hope they feel confident in their child. I am not ready to have mine pick my nursing home, thank you."</p>

<p>I understand and I hope this works for them. But, UnivMom, if I honestly didn't feel my child was responsible enough to pick my nursing home, I don't think I would pay for them to go to an expensive college.</p>

48

<p>
[quote]
know you want to help, but it is frustrating to those of us who are very familiar with the current financial aid system to see people posting misleading information on the boards. The laws and procedures have changed tremendously over the years -- if you are curious and want to get a sense of the history, you can read this page: FinAid | FinAid for Educators and FAAs | History of Student Financial Aid

[/quote]
so true .. and the financial requirements of attending college have changed also. Lots of the stories on CC about parents who choose not to pay (which is their right) include the story of how they put themselves through school and so should their child. </p>

<p>I was a freshman at Cornell in 1977 and the total cost of a year of school was $6700 and a kid could pay their way through school through working their butt off during summer and breaks, working part-time during school, pursuing opportunities like being a RA to save housing expenses, and "typical" student loans. At that time a student could easily pay for state universities and colleges.</p>

<p>Fast forward to 2007 and parents of middle class (or higher) means who choose not to help their kids pay for college are severly limiting their children's choices for schools. Without merit scholarships virtually all private schools are out of the picture ... and lots of state universities and colleges are out of reach now also for a student trying to earn and pay as they go. The choices get pretty short in these cases ... I feel for the kids who are put into this situation. It is certainly the right of parents to choose ... but it's a choice that from the outside looks pretty harsh to me (not that my opinion counts in any other family's financial decisions).</p>

49

<p>The other end of the telescope.....</p>

<p>A close friend of mine put herself through college because her parents refused to pay a dime for it.. she went to what used to be known as the "Circle Campus" of the University of Illinois even though she was the val of our class. The parents, even when she was young, always had the best of everything, cars & vacations (didn't take her along though)</p>

<p>She has done well in life, financially as well. Much better after she paid off all the student loans she had taken out! She never talked much about it over the years.</p>

<p>She is now in charge of choosing her parents' nursing home as they are both unable to care for themselves. Her parents don't have a lot of financial options as they've lived a high life.</p>

<p>She is now very bitter as all her old feelings are flooding back.</p>

50

<p>
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I've been interested in this question of whether a student could even finance a private school education by taking out student loans. I've always assumed that there was no way a student could get big loans. So I looked up the info on the B of A website.</p>

<p>A student can borrow up to $40K a year with a lifetime cap of $130K.

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These are credit based alternative loans. A student's credit-worthiness must be established to qualify. IMO it would be a rare 18 year old who could qualify as credit-worthy for a $40k a year loan. Not saying it couldn't happen - just saying it wouldn't have been my kid, nor any child I've ever met (save one who inherited at age 18).</p>

51

<p>I qualified for plenty 24,000+ loans this year.</p>

<p>My parent's aren't paying and I'm at an extremely ex*****ve top 40 LAC. I got a 24K scholarship to come here so I'm going to be at about $98,000 in loans for undergrad. However, I do work so that number could decrease to $90,000...and as my chem advisor said...most chem students go to grad school for free...$90,000 in loans may suck but I live in MA which has not only weak state colleges but weak community colleges, so I didn't have much of an option. I didn't get into the the UMass Honors College because I went to private school and thus did not take the standardized testing for MA, which is a requirement.</p>

52

<p>MLEVINE, would you share what makes up that $24K in loans? How old are you? Did you have previous credit? You say you work, how much? Did you show income figures to the lenders? I'm very interested as I have been looking for someone in your shoes for a long time to ask these questions to. I have heard of some school based programs , through your school itself. Is that what this is?</p>

53

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<p>Just wondering- who paid for that? And if the answer is your folks, what rationale do they use for not paying anything for college?</p>

54

<p>
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because I went to private school and thus did not take the standardized testing for MA, which is a requirement.

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</p>

<p>MLEVINE, Sorry, I find it hard to believe that UMass does not provide a way for students of MA private schools to qualify for their Honors college at UMass. We don't even live in MA and the Commonwealth College (i.e., the Honors program) was sending my son tons of literature trying to get him interested, as an out-of-state student who obviously did not take MA state standardized exams.</p>

<p>This is a moot point for you, since you are already enrolled at a private and in debt up to your ears. But for the benefit of any other readers who may be tempted to follow your path, I want to point out that my H and I personally know a tenured Ivy League full professor who got his undergraduate degree at UMass-Amherst. He took full advantage of the Five College system to take a lot of his courses at Amherst College, and got to know faculty well at UMass who wrote the kind of letters that helped him get to Ivy graduate school.</p>

<p>I know full well the shortcomings of MA publics due to my personal history with them, but good students generally find a way to overcome at least some of the disadvantages. I don't think huge personal debt is usually a good trade-off. I hope your personal experience works out.</p>

55

<p>From the UMass website re admissions to the Commonwealth College:

[quote]
If you are entering UMass Amherst with an exemplary high school record that includes
• combined (critical reasoning & math) SAT-I scores above 1300,
• a high school GPA of 3.8 or higher, and
• a high school class rank in the top 10 percent,
you will be invited by the UMass Amherst Admissions Office to join Commonwealth College. There is no separate application process for the College.

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<p>So it's not admissions to the College that's constrained by the MA standardized tests, it's eligibility for some scholarships, specifically the John & Abigail Adams Scholarship and the Stanley Z. Koplik Certificate of Mastery Award.</p>

<p>Everything else is based on SAT scores and GPA as recalculated by UMass.</p>

56

<p>I agree with many of the posters here that parents are not obligated to pay for a college education for their children, particularly a $50,000+ per year private school education. I also think that thumper's point was an excellent one -- a student may think that your parents are rolling in money, but you may not know what is going on underneath the surface. In any event, what is so terrible about a student having to attend a more affordable public university rather than a private university? The sense of entitlement to a private school education at a student's parents' expense is overwhelming to me.</p>

<p>For me, it turns out the greatest gift that my middle-class parents ever gave to me was the fact that they didn't pay for my college education (or law school, for that matter). I learned responsibility. I appreciated every moment of education since I was footing the bill. I learned the value of a dollar. I learned to fend for myself in the world. If I had stumbled would my parents have broken my fall? Perhaps, but I never let that happen. </p>

<p>Most importantly, as an adult, I am learning how incredibly important it is that my parents saved well for their retirement instead of paying for my college education. Unlike many of my friends (including many who thought that their parents were fairly well off), I will never have to worry about my parents' financial health, and that is truly a gift.</p>

57

<p>I find the parents not paying thing kind of off-putting, simply because I was raised by parents who believed that as long as they had sufficient financial means when the time came around (taking siblings into account), it was their responsibility as parents to pay for four years of college at any accredited four-year college that their kids could get into. I was offered a large merit scholarship for Vanderbilt. I had gotten into MIT, but asked them if I should go to Vanderbilt instead since it would save them a huge amount of money. They said that if I preferred MIT, I absolutely should go to MIT, and not to worry about the money. I'm very grateful that they took this attitude. Starting junior year, I worked part-time to pay for food, clothing, and other non-tuition-or-housing expenses, which was my own choice, because I wanted more financial responsibility and independence.</p>

<p>There were certain constraints, that I knew about before I went to college. One, they would pay for four years only. Any extra time I took would be financed by me. Two, they would only pay for undergrad. Any further education (grad, med, etc) would be financed by me. Three, I was expected to have a job or a place in a grad/professional school when I graduated, and to be financially independent from graduation on.</p>

<p>To me, the important thing here is less what the constraints were, and more that I knew what they were ahead of time. I might not like the conditions that I see various parents put on paying for their kids' college, but as long as the kids knew about it beforehand, it's fair in that regard. What really upsets me are the parents who pull their kids' tuition money midway through their college career because the student changed majors or came out as gay or something like that, when the parents had not previously stated this as a condition for their funding. To me, that's a violation of trust. They said that they were going to do something and didn't stick by it. If they wanted whatever factor to be a condition, they should have said so when the agreement was made.</p>

<p>Encouraging your kid to aspire to top schools and then refusing to pay for them seems contradictory and kind of poor to me, but at least they've said it now, instead of sending them off to the top private saying that they'll pay for it and then suddenly deciding that it's too expensive.</p>

58

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It happens very frequently with divorced parents

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<p>That's probably the most common situation. Legal scholars have known for years that the typical divorce settlement looks out for the interests of each spouse (who is, after all, represented by a lawyer) but hardly at all for the interests of the children. The children don't generally have lawyers--in a few jurisdictions they might routinely have guardians ad litem--and divorce is well known to sociologists as a path to DOWNWARD social mobility for the children in the family. Of course any general system of preferring children of divorced families for financial aid eligibility would just set up a perverse incentive to more divorces, so the system assumes that parents will continue to pay for their children's education on much the same basis as before the divorce--but that rarely happens.</p>

59

<p>
[quote]
What really upsets me are the parents who pull their kids' tuition money midway through their college career because the student changed majors or came out as gay or something like that, when the parents had not previously stated this as a condition for their funding. To me, that's a violation of trust. They said that they were going to do something and didn't stick by it.

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<p>I agree with you, jessie. There are times that the parent might not be able to stick with their plan to pay. There can be a parental job loss, death or illness in the family, or a dramatic change in the family's financial situation that won't be made up for by college financial aid. The annual pricetag today is massive.</p>

60

<p>
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There are times that the parent might not be able to stick with their plan to pay

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<p>Oh, yes, I didn't mean to equate situations where the parent CAN'T stick with the plan to situations like the hypothetical cases (which I've seen in real life) that I stated.</p>